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My dad, who is now in his late '80's, always swore by buying a car that was just coming up to its first MOT, so approximately 3 years old. He said that any potential problems had usually been fixed by then, and the depreciation was someone else's problem. I can't actually remember any of the cars he bought this way letting him down. Sorry, bit off topic there i
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Makes a certain amount of sense although here in New Zealand, where new vehicles get a similar three year first wof, some of those three year old cars have well over 100,000 km on the clock and may have a bunch of issues that have been developing unnoticed for a very long time.
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Some thoughts based on 16 years as a recovery driver:
If you expect your new car to be reliable, buy a Toyota, Kia or Hyundai. German cars were the opposite, and the better their image the worse they actually were - our yard on Monday mornings often looked like a Mercedes dealer with all the warranty redeliveries... French cars tend to be like cats that have been run over; they manage to drag themselves home to die.
Modern breakdowns fall into two groups: minor faults like failed sensors or disastrous major mechanical failures(escaping con rods, DSGs that have engaged two gears at once, water in the underfloor ECUs, etc). Both immobilise the car and neither are going to be fixed at the side of the road.
The newer, smaller, cheaper recovery agencies are, without exception, utterly curse word useless.
Removal of the tacho exemption several years ago means any long distance recovery is going to be a relay, just like the AA have always done. This is a good thing, as it reduces your chances of getting a driver who is no faced with a 10 hour drive to add to the thirty hours he's already been awake.
The AA and RAC's policy of always sending a van even when you've explained the fault in detail: they do thousands of jobs a week and hear "I'm a mechanic and I know what I'm talking about" all the time. Sometimes it's even true!
The reported faults frequently bear no relation to the actual problem:
The 'bit of metal' that the customer found under the car was the snout of the crankshaft complete with the timing and aux pulleys still attached.
It won't go into gear. And it never will when you're holding most of the gear linkage in your hand.
The driver needs his spare fan belt fitted. Except the belt he had was an OE Fiat timing belt. That wouldn't fit his Rover 820. And certainly wouldn't sort the completely knackered clutch that was the actual problem.
You'd be amazed at how many 'ECU faults' were fixed by putting £10 worth of petrol in the fuel tank.
It just cut out. No, you drove it with no water in it until it seized solid - I could smell it when I got out of the truck, three hours after it happened.
It's got a puncture on the NSF. It's a Renault Laguna, so that's actually true. But it's caused by the broken end of the spring rubbing on the tyre. Which also explains the funny noise that it made for the last couple of miles. This also applies to Mk5 Fiestas, especially low mileage ones for some reason.
How is the tyre flat, the salesman said this has run-flats. Except you bought the cheapest Ditchfinder Supremes when they wore out. Or, you've been ignoring the tyre warning for the last 500 miles
It can't be a flat battery, this is a BMW! Yes, it is. A 12 year old 316 that looked like the last time it had been cleaned was for the PDI. In Belgrade.
When my car breaks down I want to make a phone call and know it, and I, will get home from where ever I am. Any of the bigger providers(AA, RAC, Green Flag) will do that. National Breakdown seem to do it with the least amount of fuss, which is a good recommendation
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I have done a small amount of recovery work to assist a mate with his own business. Everything nickwheeler says is absolutely true 🤣 Reminds me of the truck driver who rang his boss " The nearside mirror Is broken!" " Oh how did that happen?" " Truck landed on it!"
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jmsheahan
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 682
Club RR Member Number: 121
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Spot on nickwheeler, cracked up reading that Totally agree with the only thing worth worrying about is if you, and the car, can get home in one piece should the worst happen. You can worry about the rest later. That applies to retros or moderns. I've had loads of breakdowns over the years in a variety of cars. Some were fixable by either me or the Patrol, others required towing. A wheel flying off my Beetle and my Mk5 Golf GTI grenading it's engine in spectacular fashion spring to mind Recovery can be expensive but if you know you have that lifeline no matter where you are or what's happened, that's worth it's weight in gold in my opinion.
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The newest car I've ever owned was 7 years old. My current daily is 20 years old and the rest were all 10 years old or more.
Luckily, I've only had a few breakdowns, all of which were relatively hassle free in terms of recovery, if not repair. The most recent was absolutely my fault, as I was aware of an intermittent noise but like a massive asshat I put off doing anything about it. Luckily the inevitable failure occurred about 500yds from my parents house and recovery was swift and uncomplicated.
Driving old cars, no matter how well you service and maintain them, means there will always be a reasonable chance that a part will fail at some point, though its not usually without some sort of advance warning. I tend to hear every single squeak, rattle or hum my cars make, much to the bewilderment of others who say they can't hear anything. I'm not sure if this is some sort of innate ability, or just many years of driving relatively old cars.
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I should also say that I have intentionally thrashed...err driven carefully with a fault I can't find to kill the faulty part so can fix it. Not sure you can actually class that as a breakdown tho since it's intentional 🤔
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bricol
Part of things
Posts: 285
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That made me smile - I have had very similar conversations with the other half about her car . . . bought before she met me, second hand from a Ford dealer . . .
tyres that were worn out, broken spring (second one), windscreen washer fluid empty, low tyre pressure . . . all answered by her as "but I paid £6000 for it three years ago, it shouldnt need . . ."
I'm still not sure she understands she has to do some looking after it . . . and some things break, wear out . . .
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That made me smile - I have had very similar conversations with the other half about her car . . . bought before she met me, second hand from a Ford dealer . . . tyres that were worn out, broken spring (second one), windscreen washer fluid empty, low tyre pressure . . . all answered by her as "but I paid £6000 for it three years ago, it shouldnt need . . ." I'm still not sure she understands she has to do some looking after it . . . and some things break, wear out . . . There are lots of people out there who think that an MOT is a full strip down and rebuild by NASA trained engineers in a sterile room using new and upgraded parts. Why else would it cost £45? You'd get it all the time: the tyres can't be bald, it was only MOTd 4 months ago! I went to a wheel change on the customer's drive. The NSF was certainly flat, and the reason became apparent when I started to jack up the car: it was worn through on the inner edge. I checked the other side, and it was only better because it still held air. I knocked on the door, and we had this conversation: Cust - that was quick, do you think the tyre is repairable? Me - No, it's completely worn out, and I'm not fitting the spare because the other one is just as dangerous Cust - But I've got to be at a meeting in an hour, you've GOT to fit it. I'm going to complain to the lease company Me - Please do, I've already sent my boss photos of both tyres, and you've just blown any chances you might have had of convincing me that you'd drive straight to the nearest tyre supplier Cust(looking at the other tyre) - It doesn't look that bad to me, I'm an engineer Me(having answered my phone) - Your lease company insists that I recover the car to the nearest Kwik-fit for a pair of new tyres. I went to one where they had kept the spare from their old car. Metro wheels don't fit Almeras, no matter how good the tyre is. And no, I can't just swap the tyres over. Nobody can; you can't put a 13" tyre on a 14" wheel. Non start on an Escort, it turned over slowly but wouldn't go. After some work under the bonnet I learned that "it's my boyfriend's car, and he hasn't had it serviced in the 5 years he's owned it". That would explain the oil looking like Marmite, the air filter being black and hairy enough to make a Rasta wig, the oil filter weeping through the rust, and the spark plugs have virtually no electrodes. No, I didn't get it going. It can't be out of fuel, the trip computer says it will go another 11miles....
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Rob M
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,915
Club RR Member Number: 41
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The fear of breaking down is why I buy new cars. Yes, they are dead money and I have pondered over the idiocy of buying brand new cars and all the money I could save if I didn't. Then I remember breaking down on the M11 one winter night in my old Cavalier SRI ( dead alternator that couldn't be repaired on the hard shoulder ) and having to pay a wodge of money to get me towed off the motorway to a layby. Luckily, Mr AA man dropped me at the nearest station but I got home hours after I should have. Never again. My daily is ultra modern and is less likely to leave me stranded and, for that, I am happy to pay the price. I'd never use a 'Retro' for daily duties, if people like laying underneath them on the A1, rain p*ss*ng down the back of their neck while they try to cobble a fix together to get them home, good luck to them, they have my admiration. I did all that decades ago when I couldn't afford anything but old, well worn, multi owned chod. I don't have to now and my knackered back, neck and knees are grateful for it! Each to their own. I understand your logic however, worth bearing in mind if seeking the ultimate reliability, is that the most likely time for a car to break down during the whole of its service life is in the first twelve months. Buying cars at 12 - 24 months, then looking after them, gives you the best chance of not being stranded at the roadside, and typically saves 30% of the new cost. The reason I don't buy a 12 to 24 month old car is that I have no idea who the original owner was. Company car? Thrashed and driven like a race car? Privately owned? Ditto or a little old lady that did 20mph everywhere and laboured the engine in inappropriate gears? I can swallow the cost of a new car quite happily. I mean, does the new owner of my old Kodiaq know that I had it up to 120mph, on the autobahn, and made it go around corners without it tipping over? I do get what you say though, fair points.
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Dec 10, 2021 22:40:22 GMT
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I understand your logic however, worth bearing in mind if seeking the ultimate reliability, is that the most likely time for a car to break down during the whole of its service life is in the first twelve months. Buying cars at 12 - 24 months, then looking after them, gives you the best chance of not being stranded at the roadside, and typically saves 30% of the new cost. The reason I don't buy a 12 to 24 month old car is that I have no idea who the original owner was. Company car? Thrashed and driven like a race car? Privately owned? Ditto or a little old lady that did 20mph everywhere and laboured the engine in inappropriate gears? I can swallow the cost of a new car quite happily. I mean, does the new owner of my old Kodiaq know that I had it up to 120mph, on the autobahn, and made it go around corners without it tipping over? I do get what you say though, fair points. My money will go on the car that was rep thrashed from day one! These cars are well maintained (cos the driver isn't paying) a bad one will blow up in short order and any left after that will go like a bat outta hell forever!
Forget your "one little old lady, only used it to go to church on Sundays" I knew one of those, Greek she was and drove her beat up and souped up 997 Mini Cooper flat out everywhere!
Steve
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Ha, a colleague's 94 year old mother has destroyed five clutches in her current car. It is only a few years old and she's had it from new. It's not a terrible car, she's just really murderous on clutches but refuses to get an automatic.
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I remember being told by an old boy that if you broke down in a modern you only needed one tool It's called a mobile phone There's pretty much no way you can effect any roadside repair, and all you can do is call for help I'll stick to the old stuff and a few tools, thanks all the same 😁 Ah, I remember the days when that tool was a couple of 10p pieces for the pay phone
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I'm sure age plays a small part. But equally as you get older you generally become familiar with "nicer" cars, and after a while I think you lose that familiarity and confidence in older cars.
The one way to solve your fear is to take your old car for a mammoth drive. Chances are you'll arrive back home wondering what you were worried about.
Having said that, I think my brain is currently embarking on a subconscious effort to justify the idea of buying a brand new GR86 😇
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1988 740 Turbo, 1998 V90, 1991 Eunos Roadster.
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Dec 12, 2021 11:35:03 GMT
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I'm sure age plays a small part. But equally as you get older you generally become familiar with "nicer" cars, and after a while I think you lose that familiarity and confidence in older cars. The one way to solve your fear is to take your old car for a mammoth drive. Chances are you'll arrive back home wondering what you were worried about. Actually using your old(er) car is the key to it being reliable: if all you do is use it to take the wife out to lunch on Sunday, then you'll get to meet most of the local recovery drivers! And you'll spend so much time fixing the breakdowns that all the niggly but easy to fix little faults will still be apparent hen you sell the thing in a fit of pique. However, commuting in it occasionally, visiting family halfway up the country or going to the owner's club AGM will ensure you actually deal with all the faults.
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Dec 12, 2021 12:40:50 GMT
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^^^^ This!
I put nearly 100K on my Amazon (it already had more than 200K on it to begin with) over 14 years of everyday use and during that time it went on the back of a recovery truck once due to breakdown (caused by the failure of a poor quality replacement part). It was driven all year round, including in snow.
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Dec 12, 2021 15:51:03 GMT
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^^^^ This! I put nearly 100K on my Amazon (it already had more than 200K on it to begin with) over 14 years of everyday use and during that time it went on the back of a recovery truck once due to breakdown (caused by the failure of a poor quality replacement part). It was driven all year round, including in snow. Think the Amazon must be a candidate for most relable classic of all time. I had one the visual twin of yours, Estate, same colour and all. Mine was a LHD French market 122S twin carb and O/D example (a model not available in the UK, but easy enough to convert) and came to me with 129,000 km on the clock and a bill showing the original speedo was replaced at 64,000 km. So something like 120, 000 miles before I even got my hands on it. I owned it 29 years and another 100k +miles and still regret selling it to this day. I used it as a mobile workshop for more than 15 years, towed twice it's own weight all over the country on several occasions and brought both my kids home from the hospital in it after they were born. On one memorable day, it got me home towing a trailer full of tools, engine crane and a 6 cylinder iron engine with NO lining on one side of the clutch disc and a wafer thin 1/4 of the lining on the other! The thing was completely and utterly indestructible, never EVER failed to get me home. It's also the best 2wd drive vehicle i've ever owned as far as snow is concerned, especially with a big box of tools in the boot!
Why did I ever part with it? (Sob )
Steve
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Last Edit: Dec 12, 2021 15:56:12 GMT by carledo
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Rob M
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,915
Club RR Member Number: 41
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Dec 12, 2021 19:14:49 GMT
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The reason I don't buy a 12 to 24 month old car is that I have no idea who the original owner was. Company car? Thrashed and driven like a race car? Privately owned? Ditto or a little old lady that did 20mph everywhere and laboured the engine in inappropriate gears? I can swallow the cost of a new car quite happily. I mean, does the new owner of my old Kodiaq know that I had it up to 120mph, on the autobahn, and made it go around corners without it tipping over? I do get what you say though, fair points. My money will go on the car that was rep thrashed from day one! These cars are well maintained (cos the driver isn't paying) a bad one will blow up in short order and any left after that will go like a bat outta hell forever! Forget your "one little old lady, only used it to go to church on Sundays" I knew one of those, Greek she was and drove her beat up and souped up 997 Mini Cooper flat out everywhere! Steve
I did 30 + years of getting new work vans, driving the t*ts off of them and, aside from scheduled maintenance, have them in for issues only as a last resort. That is how many many commercial vehicles are used and I don't assume that company cars are going to be any different. Both used as tools of the job, driven by people that are not paying much towards them, for them or the upkeep of them so don't really care if they hand the things back after three years with the engines hanging off the chassis frames. If you buy second hand you may as well by something that is 20 years old rather than three purely on the basis that for it to still be around after 20 years it must have had a metric sh*t ton of looking after in its recent history. I knew someone in the motor trade, a wide boy that sold 3 year and a bit older cars out of his successful dealership and most were s**t heaps, ragged to death and bought cheap at auction. It is a minefield and why so many people do PCP deals on new cars, many have been bitten once but never again. It alll depends on what suits the individual anyway.
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I did several years as a fleet manager, and if any of my drivers had driven a car with obvious/dangerous faults, or continued using an unroadworthy vehicle I'd have had their guts for garters. They weren't even allowed to go significantly over service intervals. Some of the vehicles were also signwritten, so what sort of advertising would that have been? Maybe I was a minority, but when one of my guys drove through an outside broadcasting unit which 'came detached' from its towvehicle on a motorway I was able to prove that it wasn't the vehicle at fault, which the other driver was trying to claim.
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