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I would definitely love to do this. There are certain cars, in particular, which have fantastic overall design and which do not rely on their engine to provide driving excitement of any kind. The movie Gattaca is a good source for some futuristic EV conversions. The style of several cars chosen in the film are "futuristic looking" classics, which appear to be electric converted, although there is no specific explanation of the details. Citroen DS, of course: Studebaker Avanti, which has no grille and therefore "looks right" as an EV: I would also say that anything stylish and non-sporting would generally work well as an EV conversion. The bonus being that the electric motor can be made to give much better performance than the original drivetrain in a compact space. Also, anything without an obvious front grille. Porsche 356 (replicas) Porsche 914 Air-cooled VWs of all types Minis and other chrome-bumper small cars Bring it on!
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Apr 22, 2018 16:30:08 GMT
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Well, here's another company converting classics to electric power. The only downside I can see here is the range on one charge is cack compared even to other electric cars:- 45 miles on a full charge compared to a Renault Zoe with a quoted range of 200+ miles (which is probably nearer to 150 miles in real world use).
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Apr 22, 2018 19:10:25 GMT
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I looked into electric before I started the engine swap on my Spaceframe Fiat 500 racecar.
As far as I could tell, for the power I wanted ( equivalent to 150 to 200Hp )
The weight of the batteries ( its ultra light weight is where it gets its advantage, I don't want to mess that up )
And cost,
A small multi valve internal combustion engine is still the best and most elegant solution...
I wasn't too worried about the range, I'd probably have a gasoline powered generator roaring away in between heats.
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Apr 22, 2018 20:02:35 GMT
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Unless they put a thumb on the scale, I think it will be a while before an electric racecar can compete equally with a internal combustion powered one.
Just the fact that they had to have two separate racecars for a day's racing with Formula E says it all, as far as I'm concerned...
In 1899, the fastest car on earth was electric ( Jamais Contente, first car to go over 100 Km/h ), but they have lost that lead a long time ago. And I'd be surprised if they'd get it back, anytime soon.
I think the first race where electric will out perform internal combustion will be the Pikes Peak hillclimb.
The extreme change in elevation messes with internal combustion ( specially on naturally aspirated ones )
The massive torque of electric will be an advantage.
And it is a relatively short run, which masks one of the main shortcomings of electric...
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tofufi
South West
Posts: 1,454
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Apr 22, 2018 20:16:56 GMT
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Watch the vid. The acceleration on the straights is phenomenal Sorry, but for me that video was the perfect demonstration of why I wouldn't like to go electric. For me driving an older car isn't about speed. If I wanted speed, I'd go and buy a new-ish car - instead I frequently daily a car that is rather older than the sum of its horsepower. I drive my old cars for the sense of mechanical interaction. For the noise. For the experience. The Cobra left me cold as it didn't seem to have those things - it was quick and unengaging. Like a playstation game in real life. Most of my cars have unique engine noises (only 2 of 6 are I4 engines, and one has a unique sound from that) and I think it'd ruin the experience. I've no problem with (and would encourage others to convert to) electric cars - but the speed alone isn't enough for me.
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Smiler
Posted a lot
I no longer own anything FWD! Or with less than 6 cylinders, or 2.5ltrs! :)
Posts: 2,492
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Apr 22, 2018 21:53:06 GMT
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If I were to ditch the engine in my old carfor an electric motor, what would it leak?...
I would also lose the current chassis rust prevention system.
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www.Auto-tat.co.uk'96 Range Rover P38 DSE (daily driver) '71 Reliant Scimitar SE5 GTE 3.0ltr Jag V6 Conversion '79 Reliant Scimitar SE6A 3.0ltr 24valve Omega Conversion '85 Escort Cabrio 2.0 Zetec - Sold '91 BMW 525i - Sold '82 Cortina 2.9i Ghia Cosworth - Sold '72 VW Campervan - Sold '65 LandRover 88" - Sold
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Apr 22, 2018 22:46:59 GMT
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Electric in a retro. Well I dunno. I did once toy with the idea of electrifying a Citroën AX, but I was pretty soon put off the idea when i realised that I had no idea how to go about it. I think something like an AX or even a XM would be a cool electric city car, but I wouldn't want to have my 'hobby car' electric, it just doesn't seem right somehow. Although I have seen electric vehicles that have been successfully modified...
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I like the idea and would probably consider a converted classic for a daily but I'll always want an IC for my fun car, though saying that Morgan's EV and the infiniti concept really wet my appetite because in their "raw" form I think the thrill of driving would still be there. Though... I'd love that infiniti with an aero engine... just saying.
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So there's cars that due to their engine note people wouldn't want to EV (eg. Cobra), and others that are more for the looks than the driving experience that people wouldn't mind EV'ing (eg. Morris Minor)?
How about: expensive cars right now = don't EV. Cheap cars (< £10K right now) = go EV.
I do agree that a McClaren F1 probably wouldn't be a better car with an EV, but a stinky old Moggy?!
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Apr 23, 2018 11:13:24 GMT
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I was thinking that in say 20 years time the market for vehicles will have changed a lot from today. We'll probably have some driverless cars around (nuff said!) but a lot more vehicles than not will be electric or hybrids. So lets just say you could get a complete electric conversion for say £3-5K - would you? Or would you rather get rid of your RR altogether? As an example, I've seen some very nice electric VW Beetle conversions, which obviously cost way more than the £3-5K above, but if due to economies of scale your car could be future proofed for say £5k tops, would you do it? I'm thinking I would, but it would only be worth it on a car that was very good already and if it was the only option. I'd rather see an electric RR on the road than no RR on the road at all. Your thoughts? I haven't read the thread yet, but the original question intrigues me so apologies if I'm only repeating what others have said. I think your final line "I'd rather see an electric RR on the road than no RR on the road at all" is the absolute clincher for me where I would say yes, I'd go electric. If had to In every other sense though, I would say no. - I do not believe for a single minute that converting a national fleet of vehicles to electric is going to be any better for the environment or our quality of life. In this sense EVs are the usual middle class brainwave of feeling good and virtuous and seeming conscientious whilst merely allowing the problem to be swept out of sight and out of mind. - I don't think a retro car converted to an electric motor is actually a retro car anymore. So little of what actually made it a retro car would be left. - I don't think many retro or classic cars would be best suited for conversion and it would be a compromise rather than a benefit. - I think one of the problems with EVs is that they are still trying to emulate ICE cars. The most effective EV is going to take a radically different approach. Smaller, lighter, more utilitarian, less energy-consuming techno-fripperies. On a sliding scale between the Sinclair C5 and the Tesla Model X, I think we need to go back a bit towards the C5 and embrace a whole new philosophy of motorised transport. If that evolves as we make this transition then an old heavy, chassis-based retro car with lots of heavy metal componentry is going to be an absurd proposition. The value of an unmolested retro or classic will be far greater than an EV conversion. If I'm going electric any time, I'll be embracing the future not dragging the past along. But if it threatens to wipe out classics and retros, then I would consider it.
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Last Edit: Apr 23, 2018 15:05:19 GMT by Deleted
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misteralz
Posted a lot
I may drive a Volkswagen, but I'm scene tax exempt!
Posts: 2,344
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Apr 23, 2018 11:16:02 GMT
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I don't think it's as simple as putting an actual dollar value on it. I don't think an EV 2CV, or Beetle, or FIAT 500 would be right, whereas an EV Minor, or Mini, or Renault 4, or Piaggio Ape would be.
An EV DeLorean, DS, L322 Range Rover, S1 Esprit or Alpine A310 would be all sorts of right.
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Apr 23, 2018 11:21:23 GMT
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Watching this video and listening to the car flapping efficiently around the track reminds me of the moment when smoking was banned in pubs. It was, by all reasonable measures, an improvement to the environment. In reality though it just meant you could smell everyone's farts, burps, B.O and bad breath. I still believe the decline of British pubs was a side-effect of that improvement. I think racing EVs will upgrade the speed of racing but at the same time I suspect we might all come to lose our sense of interest in racing. In the case of this video, it's obviously faster, but it's really boring to watch. There;s no sense of where the engine is being pushed at all. It isn't. It's just doing what it does. There's no communication of effort, intent, the red line, the shifting, the braking... it may as well just be a pre-programmed machine following lines on the track.
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Last Edit: Apr 23, 2018 12:09:45 GMT by Deleted
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misteralz
Posted a lot
I may drive a Volkswagen, but I'm scene tax exempt!
Posts: 2,344
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Apr 23, 2018 11:29:31 GMT
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Smiler
Posted a lot
I no longer own anything FWD! Or with less than 6 cylinders, or 2.5ltrs! :)
Posts: 2,492
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Apr 23, 2018 12:01:53 GMT
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Watching this video and listening to the car flapping efficiently around the track reminds me of the moment when smoking was banned in pubs. It was, by all reasonable measures, an improvement to the environment. In reality though it just meant you could smell everyone's farts, burps and bad breath. I still believe the decline of British pubs was a side-effect of that improvement. I love that statement!
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Last Edit: Apr 23, 2018 12:02:13 GMT by Smiler
www.Auto-tat.co.uk'96 Range Rover P38 DSE (daily driver) '71 Reliant Scimitar SE5 GTE 3.0ltr Jag V6 Conversion '79 Reliant Scimitar SE6A 3.0ltr 24valve Omega Conversion '85 Escort Cabrio 2.0 Zetec - Sold '91 BMW 525i - Sold '82 Cortina 2.9i Ghia Cosworth - Sold '72 VW Campervan - Sold '65 LandRover 88" - Sold
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Apr 23, 2018 12:10:09 GMT
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Thanks. I missed B.O out though, so I just added it in.
= )
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Last Edit: Apr 23, 2018 12:10:31 GMT by Deleted
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Rob M
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,915
Club RR Member Number: 41
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Apr 23, 2018 15:00:40 GMT
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Watching this video and listening to the car flapping efficiently around the track reminds me of the moment when smoking was banned in pubs. It was, by all reasonable measures, an improvement to the environment. In reality though it just meant you could smell everyone's farts, burps, B.O and bad breath. I still believe the decline of British pubs was a side-effect of that improvement. I think racing EVs will upgrade the speed of racing but at the same time I suspect we might all come to lose our sense of interest in racing. In the case of this video, it's obviously faster, but it's really boring to watch. There;s no sense of where the engine is being pushed at all. It isn't. It's just doing what it does. There's no communication of effort, intent, the red line, the shifting, the braking... it may as well just be a pre-programmed machine following lines on the track. Are supposed to declare 'Wow!! it's a Cobra..' This nails it home, for me, you electrify a 'classic/retro' and you remove the soul from it. That Cobra may has well have been a bathtub honking around the track. There was no growl from the V8, no sense of speed as such, just a bone crushingly sterile demonstration of speed by electricity over the internal combustion engine. Granted, the odd Morris Minor or seven will sell by the bucket load, once converted to battery power, to the Islington set and anybody else who can afford a certain kind of style for a testicle wrenching sum of money but, realistically, most of us will bow out as it will go beyond affordability and will turn a hobby into a way of life. I accept what is coming, I embrace it in any future daily I will own but I will never own an electric retro.
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Apr 23, 2018 15:14:15 GMT
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This nails it home, for me, you electrify a 'classic/retro' and you remove the soul from it. That Cobra may has well have been a bathtub honking around the track. There was no growl from the V8, no sense of speed as such, just a bone crushingly sterile demonstration of speed by electricity over the internal combustion engine. It's almost as much fun as watching people race across a piece of paper with pencils. I can see EV racing being intense and stimulating one day but it needs to be more like Tron or WipeOut (the Playstation game) and on a track that makes it interesting again. I guess more like the Wachowski's version of SpeedRacer... a roller coaster track with insane banks and corkscrews and upside down bits and subterranean bits and so on. Laser dinosaurs. Enormous robot mosquitoes. Then it will be exciting. I also think that once the EV makers get really confident they're definitely winning they will start to create retro/classic inspired designs and sell that nostalgia so well nobody will want/need to convert the real thing.
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Last Edit: Apr 23, 2018 15:17:56 GMT by Deleted
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Rob M
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,915
Club RR Member Number: 41
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Apr 23, 2018 15:30:44 GMT
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We just need to scale this up sufficiently...... Mind you, there was a Formula One'esq Electric race car championship, it was on the telly. I don't think it went down to brilliantly
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Apr 23, 2018 15:40:53 GMT
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So I had an idea a while ago and I'll share it here for you guys to tear apart. The fun of a retro/classic isn't just the look, the nostalgia or the sound, but the way it drives. An electric motor isn't the same as an engine, there's no torque curve, all the power is there all the time. My Midget has 75hp on a good day (a very good day downhill). I don't want an electric motor with 200hp in there, that would be terrifying. Not only that but the gearbox wouldn't be able to take the power, so I'd be changing that out too. Now we're getting into the points system and playing with needing to get it tested. That's more money and time and in 10 years I doubt that a Midget will make it through an IVA test. So my idea is to fit the electric motor to the gearbox and to programme it with a torque curve. Make a 200hp electric motor behave like a 75hp A Series motor. I just don't know enough about electric motors to do the job. Other things to consider; You could pump fake engine noises into the cabin while driving to give the driver the ability to change gear based on sound You could convert the tachometer to provide revs for the driver to change gear at the right time You could make an app whereby the driver could select a different torque curve. Want to try a 997 cooper engine? Just select it. a 1440 turbocharged engine? Go for it. The engine from a Fiat 500? Weird, but sure! Done properly I think it would be a fairly cheap conversion, but it's the cost of the batteries that's the issue, they're still very expensive, and last I heard Tesla doesn't like their cars ending up in scrap yards, so secondhand Tesla batteries are hard to come by. I have seen this done to a Midget in America on "YouTube" a few years ago - I'm sure that was on lead/acid batteries, so on more modern battery technology and electronics, it is a very attractive proposition.
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Apr 23, 2018 16:43:33 GMT
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