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So a bunch of like-minded petrol head friends and I are hatching a plan. We all have 5 days off work in the summer, and we want to drive from here in Portsmouth, up to Scotland and do the complete North coast 500 route. Got a few places, distilleries and sites we want to visit along the way, should be roughly 1500 miles. Now, I need to pick a tool for the job  I have a 205 XS which would be great on the twisty bits, but the drive there and back, predominately on motorways doing 4000rpm at 70mph, is just too much of a compromise. I feel my 190e would be the opposite, and be like a barge in a stream!! Could be wrong though, they do eat miles so maybe its more suitable than I think. So our budget is around £700. It needs to be something which handles nice, not necessarily fast, but must be fun, have character, be preferably old/retro and is likely to last the trip! So far, our thoughts are.... MX-5 mk1 or mk2 Probably the best all rounder for this money, surely? Ticks all the boxes, strongest contender at the moment Ford Puma 1.7 I like them. I hear the engines are great, and they are supposed to handle really nice. Only concern is they might be a bit common, not really special, but please tell me I am wrong Clio 172/182 Would be good, but assuming I can find one for that money that is up and running, the reliability point will no doubt be called to question Saxo vtr/vts or 106gti Maybe a cheaper and more realistic alternative to the Clio, but the chav image they stereotyped just puts me off  MR2 mk2 Mate's suggestion, know very little about the models really, school me Welcome to any suggestions. It even crossed my mind to buy something utterly wibblepoo just for a hoot  |
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tofufi
South West
Posts: 1,452
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If you don't want to be doing 4000rpm at 70mph, the MX5 mk1 probably isn't for you... it's not going to be far off that. I don't have much experience of the others Personally, I'd spend the money on servicing/improving the 205 and take that |
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thebaron
Europe
Over the river, heading out of town
Posts: 1,645 
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Is it possible to change the final drive on the 205's box?
If so, that would be my choice.
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willg
Part of things
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Loved my mx5, you wouldnt regret buying one! If you get a good mk1 (rust wise) you wouldnt loose money either, but as said they do rev high, my mk1 1.6 was about 3.9k at 70. Mk2's may be different and some had the 6 speed box. 205 would be alot of fun too however
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Retro is best!
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misteralz
Posted a lot
I may drive a Volkswagen, but I'm scene tax exempt!
Posts: 2,338
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Save yourself £600 by buying £100 of generic dynamat off eBay. I did the entire inside of my T4 and while 60 used to be painful, afterwards I drove from Cheimsee to Alkmaar in a day at a near-constant 90mph and could hold a conversation the whole time. Used half a litre of oil and a decent bit of fuel, mind.
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jonk
Part of things
Posts: 154
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I've got an mx5 mk1, and had a 205 xs last year, and I did the North Coast 500 on a pushbike last year and had the best time ever.
There are some sweeping, open roads, but there are also lots of twisty, bumpy singletrack lanes too. I think a 205 would be brilliant when you're up there. An mx5 would be ok with standard suspension but my slightly lowered one would have had me wincing over some of the bumps.
My overall feeling when I was there would have been that if I went expecting something like a 500 mile racetrack I would have been disappointed. Lots of the roads really aren't fast, there are campervans and lots of hirecar Qashquais about and not that many places to pass for some stretches. The scenery is stunning though, it's like a completely different world in parts, and every new view takes your breath away. Some of the stretches of road would be a great drive but I guess I wasn't looking for the same things when I was on my bike.
I got a 306 gti to replace the xs and it's a fair bit quieter on the motorway but feels very similar to drive in twisty bits. Nippy for overtaking too. A hot hatch like that is probably quite a good all round option, but I think you could also have a great time in your merc, taking your time and enjoying the views.
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you need a passport , foreign country , translator , proper money and a box of mars bars iron brew , condoms for the sheep , thats a start , and don t say your english say your from n ireland if you sound funny lol
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,192
Club RR Member Number: 170
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MX-5 mk1 or mk2 - It would be a Mk2 now for that money ; a rot free and non-tired MK1 is a hard thing to come by, and neglected cars (shot dampers etc.) are strengthening the values of the good cars, not to mention their increasing classis status during these 'investment' times ; I sold my 1990 Mk1 UK car on 156k for £2.4k in 2016 and paid a similar amount for it at the start of the summer. Rot will be your biggest problem. They do rev high but they do love it! They never seemed strained sitting there, and you don't mind leaving it revving high either! It's almost like the engine is sewn from granite! Ford Puma 1.7 IMHO they are as fun as an MX-5. Problems include rusty rear arches and sills. Buy carefully and this may well be the one to buy in this lineup! Clio 172/182 At this money cambelts and reliability will be a problem. It's possible to get a good car but it will take a hell of alot of searching! Mine was dead reliable but I did pay twice your budget to get it! They do 40MPG, and have plenty of toys to make up for the raw and exploitable chassis. They are a modern day 205 GTi in many ways. Saxo vtr/vts & 106gti Apart from a 182 Trophy and now maybe the Clio Cup 172s they are more expensive than 1*2s albeit less for the Saxos  . Rust is also problem now as are shot rear beams (the latter are £300+ for a refurb before fitting ; most beams are tired out there now and some even only fit for the scrap pile). I'd also sit in one. You need feet like cocktail sticks to operate the pedals even next to a 205 which has a pedalbox from heaven in comparison! That's before I also get to the sideways on driving position! The pedals are offset to the middle but the steering wheel isn't! It's not a long distance car for that reason IMHO MR2 mk2 - These are not as cheap but worth a shot. I'd add a Xsara VTS to the list. They are cheap, a 306 GTi-6 in drag and without a 6 speed 'box, but are still a great hoot to drive! What engine and spec is your 190e? Persoanlly I'd take that. I love driving my 250D around, even with the lack of pace. It grips well too and is a lovely old boat to take on roads ; I'm planning a similar trip this year in it if I can keep the car . It drove better for a long time than my sister's '07 Saab 9-3 1.8t 'vert! Alot of that was down to the tyres, which may be worth a shot on the 190E; the Merc is on Goodyears all round and really can be thrown about well for what it is. Most of all, don't get het up about mileage or colour for this money. Condition comes first, but you already knew that .
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Last Edit: Mar 6, 2018 8:08:50 GMT by ChasR
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OK, I'm guessing I'm from a different generation to you and I appreciate that your budget's a bit restricting but I just don't see much star quality in any of these choices, (sorry!) That said I think you'll find that your budget isn't going to touch some of them anyway. I'd just be inclined to keep a close eye online, (including classifieds here), usual sites like Gumtree, ebay, Preloved, Car & Classic, etc. and see what interesting stuff comes up within budget. I'm guessing you'll get a sound serviceable old Toyota or Audi, if you're lucky and quick perhaps something like a Sierra. The 106 is realistic but not a GTi for that budget, the 3 door diesel is really frugal and pretty reliable if not exciting or comfortable. As an aside . . . The run sounds great, I hope you have a fantastic time. Just an idea, if you wanted an interesting base for a few days to explore from, the Landmark Trust is a charity which restores old character properties & makes them available for holiday rentals. Everything from a 1 bedroomed radio shack on a remote island, through a lighthouse, mills, towers, medieval thatched manor houses to mansions, forts, castles and shepherd's or fishermen's cottages, even a giant Pineapple or a pigsty, (really!). They're surprising affordable if you look at the cost next to Hotels or standard holiday lets, and if there's enough of you. it keeps the cost down Scottish offerings; www.landmarktrust.org.uk/Search-and-Book/location/scotland/#tabs=SearchThe largest of their Scottish properties sleeps up to 16, (which assumes couples). They have several historic castles in fantastic locations, e.g.  |
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Last Edit: Mar 6, 2018 9:40:44 GMT by MkX
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My suzuki alto has just finished it's winter duties. Not missed a beat in driving 350 miles a week since August.
Genuine 53MPG
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I've got an mx5 mk1, and had a 205 xs last year, and I did the North Coast 500 on a pushbike last year and had the best time ever. There are some sweeping, open roads, but there are also lots of twisty, bumpy singletrack lanes too. I think a 205 would be brilliant when you're up there. An mx5 would be ok with standard suspension but my slightly lowered one would have had me wincing over some of the bumps. My overall feeling when I was there would have been that if I went expecting something like a 500 mile racetrack I would have been disappointed. Lots of the roads really aren't fast, there are campervans and lots of hirecar Qashquais about and not that many places to pass for some stretches. The scenery is stunning though, it's like a completely different world in parts, and every new view takes your breath away. Some of the stretches of road would be a great drive but I guess I wasn't looking for the same things when I was on my bike. I got a 306 gti to replace the xs and it's a fair bit quieter on the motorway but feels very similar to drive in twisty bits. Nippy for overtaking too. A hot hatch like that is probably quite a good all round option, but I think you could also have a great time in your merc, taking your time and enjoying the views. Great advice, thanks very much!!! I would love to do it on my road bike too, but it'll have to wait until another time with a different bunch!!! I haven't competely written off either the XS or the 190e as weapons of choice. 306gti6 would be good indeed Did think about an 850 T5 too, always fancied one |
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MX-5 mk1 or mk2 - It would be a Mk2 now for that money ; a rot free and non-tired MK1 is a hard thing to come by, and neglected cars (shot dampers etc.) are strengthening the values of the good cars, not to mention their increasing classis status during these 'investment' times ; I sold my 1990 Mk1 UK car on 156k for £2.4k in 2016 and paid a similar amount for it at the start of the summer. Rot will be your biggest problem. They do rev high but they do love it! They never seemed strained sitting there, and you don't mind leaving it revving high either! It's almost like the engine is sewn from granite! Ford Puma 1.7 IMHO they are as fun as an MX-5. Problems include rusty rear arches and sills. Buy carefully and this may well be the one to buy in this lineup! Clio 172/182 At this money cambelts and reliability will be a problem. It's possible to get a good car but it will take a hell of alot of searching! Mine was dead reliable but I did pay twice your budget to get it! They do 40MPG, and have plenty of toys to make up for the raw and exploitable chassis. They are a modern day 205 GTi in many ways. Saxo vtr/vts & 106gti Apart from a 182 Trophy and now maybe the Clio Cup 172s they are more expensive than 1*2s albeit less for the Saxos . Rust is also problem now as are shot rear beams (the latter are £300+ for a refurb before fitting ; most beams are tired out there now and some even only fit for the scrap pile). I'd also sit in one. You need feet like cocktail sticks to operate the pedals even next to a 205 which has a pedalbox from heaven in comparison! That's before I also get to the sideways on driving position! The pedals are offset to the middle but the steering wheel isn't! It's not a long distance car for that reason IMHO MR2 mk2 - These are not as cheap but worth a shot. I'd add a Xsara VTS to the list. They are cheap, a 306 GTi-6 in drag and without a 6 speed 'box, but are still a great hoot to drive! What engine and spec is your 190e? Persoanlly I'd take that. I love driving my 250D around, even with the lack of pace. It grips well too and is a lovely old boat to take on roads ; I'm planning a similar trip this year in it if I can keep the car . It drove better for a long time than my sister's '07 Saab 9-3 1.8t 'vert! Alot of that was down to the tyres, which may be worth a shot on the 190E; the Merc is on Goodyears all round and really can be thrown about well for what it is. Most of all, don't get het up about mileage or colour for this money. Condition comes first, but you already knew that . More sound advice. I have considered Xsara VTS's, as they are more understated and a touch less ASBO, more spacious, and seemingly rather chep (maybe overlooked?). And with the abundunce of Pumas for sale at knock-off prices, it is likely to be the easiest to find out of the lot mentioned so far, with plenty of choice to set apart the ones which have been looked after, had the right oil put in them at the correct service intervals, and are less rotten! Either way, I do love to trawl and search the online ads, so rest assured whatever I decide to go for I will put in a thorough search! My 190e is a 1.8 automatic. Didn't even consider a manual!! At the moment strongest contenders are MK2 MX5, 1.7 Puma, or my XS or 190e Anyone shed some light on the Volvo 850 t5's suitability? Perhaps its poor fuel economy may be offset by its spaciousness (in the case fo the estate version) and hence, its use as cheap accommodation |
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Used to live on the route. A compromise between sportiness and comfort makes sense in my opinion. As said before the traffic in summer can be extremely restrictive so you won't often be going quickly.
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1988 740 Turbo, 1998 V90, 1991 Eunos Roadster.
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b3nson
Part of things
Posts: 886
Club RR Member Number: 22
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Nothing too low or stiff. There's some great roads for that type of car but you'll be spending alot of time on bumpy, singletrack roads too!
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'99 Fiat Coupe 20V Turbo
'08 Panda 100HP
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Take the Merc. Really, it's the views that will make this trip above anything else. Sure, the hot hatches will be a good laugh, but will they be worth the hassle when you already have two cars at your disposal? The 205 will be fine too, but the Merc will be the best all rounder. Spend the money you would have wasted on beer and food! That's my 2 cents.
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Project - 1990 Trabant 601 Daily - 2006 Saab 93 |
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jonk
Part of things
Posts: 154
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Take the Merc. Really, it's the views that will make this trip above anything else. Sure, the hot hatches will be a good laugh, but will they be worth the hassle when you already have two cars at your disposal? The 205 will be fine too, but the Merc will be the best all rounder. Spend the money you would have wasted on beer and food! That's my 2 cents. I think that's a good way of looking at it. But if you're using the trip as a thinly-veiled excuse to buy a new car, then why not! |
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 Click picture for more |
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,192
Club RR Member Number: 170
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MX-5 mk1 or mk2 - It would be a Mk2 now for that money ; a rot free and non-tired MK1 is a hard thing to come by, and neglected cars (shot dampers etc.) are strengthening the values of the good cars, not to mention their increasing classis status during these 'investment' times ; I sold my 1990 Mk1 UK car on 156k for £2.4k in 2016 and paid a similar amount for it at the start of the summer. Rot will be your biggest problem. They do rev high but they do love it! They never seemed strained sitting there, and you don't mind leaving it revving high either! It's almost like the engine is sewn from granite! Ford Puma 1.7 IMHO they are as fun as an MX-5. Problems include rusty rear arches and sills. Buy carefully and this may well be the one to buy in this lineup! Clio 172/182 At this money cambelts and reliability will be a problem. It's possible to get a good car but it will take a hell of alot of searching! Mine was dead reliable but I did pay twice your budget to get it! They do 40MPG, and have plenty of toys to make up for the raw and exploitable chassis. They are a modern day 205 GTi in many ways. Saxo vtr/vts & 106gti Apart from a 182 Trophy and now maybe the Clio Cup 172s they are more expensive than 1*2s albeit less for the Saxos . Rust is also problem now as are shot rear beams (the latter are £300+ for a refurb before fitting ; most beams are tired out there now and some even only fit for the scrap pile). I'd also sit in one. You need feet like cocktail sticks to operate the pedals even next to a 205 which has a pedalbox from heaven in comparison! That's before I also get to the sideways on driving position! The pedals are offset to the middle but the steering wheel isn't! It's not a long distance car for that reason IMHO MR2 mk2 - These are not as cheap but worth a shot. I'd add a Xsara VTS to the list. They are cheap, a 306 GTi-6 in drag and without a 6 speed 'box, but are still a great hoot to drive! What engine and spec is your 190e? Persoanlly I'd take that. I love driving my 250D around, even with the lack of pace. It grips well too and is a lovely old boat to take on roads ; I'm planning a similar trip this year in it if I can keep the car . It drove better for a long time than my sister's '07 Saab 9-3 1.8t 'vert! Alot of that was down to the tyres, which may be worth a shot on the 190E; the Merc is on Goodyears all round and really can be thrown about well for what it is. Most of all, don't get het up about mileage or colour for this money. Condition comes first, but you already knew that . More sound advice. I have considered Xsara VTS's, as they are more understated and a touch less ASBO, more spacious, and seemingly rather chep (maybe overlooked?). And with the abundunce of Pumas for sale at knock-off prices, it is likely to be the easiest to find out of the lot mentioned so far, with plenty of choice to set apart the ones which have been looked after, had the right oil put in them at the correct service intervals, and are less rotten! Either way, I do love to trawl and search the online ads, so rest assured whatever I decide to go for I will put in a thorough search! My 190e is a 1.8 automatic. Didn't even consider a manual!! At the moment strongest contenders are MK2 MX5, 1.7 Puma, or my XS or 190e Anyone shed some light on the Volvo 850 t5's suitability? Perhaps its poor fuel economy may be offset by its spaciousness (in the case fo the estate version) and hence, its use as cheap accommodation Considering your 190E is quicker than my 250D I'd take it ; I originally wanted a 300D Auto estate but they are now pricey for something not full of rot or from suffering neglect. On thin country roads like what you I travel on now and again my W124 for me a joy! OK, it's a different kind of drive to my M3 in many ways and even more so when compared to the French Fancies I've had in the past, including the Clio 172, Pug 106, 205 & 306 GTi. The 306 is one car I do look back on fondly now and again. On fuel economy however it wasn't much better than my M3 on a run! Where the M3 does 29-31MPG the Pug would do around 33. The Merc, if it continues to prove itself, will be going to France as well! It's no Citroen DS but in a German and well, plainer way it does have a massive charm that wins you over on the long trips! T5s are fine, but 850s for something that's not botched are not quite the bargain they once were; then again not many things are which a previous thread highlighed (the young enthusiast thread). The Xsara for me is the perfect example of what to look for. Something which never made it into the mainstream, or even has much of a cult folllowing. For me that is the true definition of diamonds in the rough ; the cars that make people go "Oh, they're the same as that and actually are not bad at all!". The Ford Puma is one exception to the rule, primarily due to how it rusts! However, best of luck finding something if you don't take the 190E . |
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skinnylew
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 5,546
Club RR Member Number: 11
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Stick a Saxo VTR box in the 205, they are looooooonnnnnngggggggg geared lol
Seriously though, worth doing it in the 205 all day long, it's how memories are made and bonds are strengthened. I did a mini tour of Britain in my Ax Gti many years ago. It broke down once or twice but otherwise was awesome
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In light of these suggestion perhaps I am warming to the idea of using the 190e. Even with a new exhaust and couple of bits of welding which I must do when I get a moment and a sunny weekend afternoon, it would still owe me less than my £700 budget. And I own it already!!
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I have a 205 XS which would be great on the twisty bits, but the drive there and back, predominately on motorways doing 4000rpm at 70mph, is just too much of a compromise. I feel my 190e would be the opposite, and be like a barge in a stream!! Could be wrong though, they do eat miles so maybe its more suitable than I think.
. Rust is also problem now as are shot rear beams (the latter are £300+ for a refurb before fitting ; most beams are tired out there now and some even only fit for the scrap pile). I'd also sit in one. You need feet like cocktail sticks to operate the pedals even next to a 205 which has a pedalbox from heaven in comparison! That's before I also get to the sideways on driving position! The pedals are offset to the middle but the steering wheel isn't! It's not a long distance car for that reason IMHO
Ax GTi Turbo