Smiler
Posted a lot
I no longer own anything FWD! Or with less than 6 cylinders, or 2.5ltrs! :)
Posts: 2,492
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Sept 10, 2013 19:53:15 GMT
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Hello folks, Just something I'm pondering for the future of my Scimitar SE5.  The original plan, once I'd finished and flogged the Cortina and Escort, was to buy a Jaguar S-type 3.0ltr manual donor and transfer the all alloy 240bhp 3.0ltr V6 and manual box into the Scimitar. The weight reduction alone should see a noticeable performance increase let alone the power hike. But I have recently started wondering about going the turbo 5-pot route and fitting a Volvo 2.3ltr T5 motor instead. The V6 seems more in keeping with the car but further tuning is probably quite limited compared to the turbo engine. It would look cool with a set of six throttle bodies sat on top but that would costs loads and possibly not gain much as the Jag uses a fancy variable inlet system. The 5-pot could be upgraded much easier being a turbo but will it make the right noises and get the mojo spinning? I know that a straight 5 can sound nice but so far the chavy videos on youtube are yet to convince me that they can sound better than a V6. Or am I being daft worrying about the noise it makes when the turbo screamer would make it ballistic? What do you lot reckon?  Smiler. |
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www.Auto-tat.co.uk'96 Range Rover P38 DSE (daily driver) '71 Reliant Scimitar SE5 GTE 3.0ltr Jag V6 Conversion '79 Reliant Scimitar SE6A 3.0ltr 24valve Omega Conversion '85 Escort Cabrio 2.0 Zetec - Sold '91 BMW 525i - Sold '82 Cortina 2.9i Ghia Cosworth - Sold '72 VW Campervan - Sold '65 LandRover 88" - Sold
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adam73bgt
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,869
Club RR Member Number: 58
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5-Pot Turbo or V6?adam73bgt
@adam73bgt
Club Retro Rides Member 58
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Sept 10, 2013 20:02:42 GMT
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I love the sound of both a 5 and 6 cylinder so I'd be hard pressed to choose between them on that front, but I'd be inclined to go with the V6, it just seems 'right' to me somehow. Also maybe some triumph daytona motorcycle throttle bodies might be a cheap way to get the throttle body performance/look? not sure how easy it would be to make it work though.. Or if you want the best of both worlds, turbo the V6  |
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Sept 10, 2013 20:46:55 GMT
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I'm obsessed with the sound of an Audi 5 pot turbo, there's no noise like it IMO. With the right exhaust popping and a dump valve..........
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1993 Mercedes-Benz 190e LE in Azzuro Blue.
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Sept 10, 2013 20:48:59 GMT
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I would have to go with the 5 pot  |
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Smiler
Posted a lot
I no longer own anything FWD! Or with less than 6 cylinders, or 2.5ltrs! :)
Posts: 2,492
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Sept 10, 2013 20:57:13 GMT
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I suppose it is a new direction for a Scimitar. V8's are done to death, there's a healthy number of Omega V6 conversions going on. There's even two with the BMW straight six diesel fitted! Maybe it is worth doing a bit more digging into the 5-pot options.
But a V6 with throttle bodies such as those Triumph jobs would be spot-on for the character of the car and possibly make it feel more 'complete'.
Maybe I should get a second Scimitar and do both!
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Last Edit: Sept 10, 2013 21:19:23 GMT by Smiler
www.Auto-tat.co.uk'96 Range Rover P38 DSE (daily driver) '71 Reliant Scimitar SE5 GTE 3.0ltr Jag V6 Conversion '79 Reliant Scimitar SE6A 3.0ltr 24valve Omega Conversion '85 Escort Cabrio 2.0 Zetec - Sold '91 BMW 525i - Sold '82 Cortina 2.9i Ghia Cosworth - Sold '72 VW Campervan - Sold '65 LandRover 88" - Sold
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Sept 10, 2013 21:25:26 GMT
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I love the sound of 5-pot turbo nutter . . . but I'm afraid the V6 just seems the right thing to do. More in keeping.
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@pistonbroker on Twitter
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Sept 10, 2013 21:41:57 GMT
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Noise factor alone 5pot for me |
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Sept 10, 2013 22:25:02 GMT
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Personally I'd say you need to at least get a passenger ride in cars with the proposed donor options. Generally turbos have quite different characteristics to big naturally aspirated V's although I've never driven a T5. Personally I'd lean towards the 5 cylinder based on noise and originality but I love the torquey pull of a big 6 too.
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'55 Austin A30
'71 MGB GT
'72 Datsun 240 shed
'72 Mercedes 240D
'79 Firebird
'86 Austin Maestro Van
'91 Mercedes 250D
'91 BMW e34 535i Sport
'92 Mazda MX-5
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Sept 10, 2013 22:57:03 GMT
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Personally a Saab 2.3 turbo mapped to 270-300 bhp sounds fun.
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Sept 10, 2013 23:43:43 GMT
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5 pot and why isnt it done yet |
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2001 HONDA CT110 (NOT RCV)
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Adey
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,343
Club RR Member Number: 171
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5-Pot Turbo or V6?Adey
@adey1984
Club Retro Rides Member 171
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Sept 11, 2013 5:39:47 GMT
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B5 audi s4 engine, 2.7l v6 twin turbo ;-p
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Sept 11, 2013 6:35:52 GMT
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Perhaps this might sway you to the 5 pot love |
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ToolsnTrack
Posted a lot
Homebrew Raconteur
Posts: 4,117
Club RR Member Number: 134
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5-Pot Turbo or V6?ToolsnTrack
@overdrive
Club Retro Rides Member 134
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Sept 11, 2013 6:52:26 GMT
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Yea, 5 pot for originality. If you are in need of convincing, just go to youtube and search for the Audi 5 pot turbos. They sound just as good as any V6, and are actually a very balanced and performance-minded design of engine.
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Sept 11, 2013 7:27:18 GMT
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I prefer the way a N/A drives compared to a turbo engine, given similar power outputs, cost and weight I'd always pick the N/A option, generally it also involves less complication, pipework, under bonnet heat and none of that annoying letting the engine idle for a while before turning it off after giving it a good thrashing.
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Volvo back as my main squeeze, more boost and some interior goodies on the way.
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Sept 11, 2013 7:43:07 GMT
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What about a straight 6 as the original Scimitar coupes ?
Paul H
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Smiler
Posted a lot
I no longer own anything FWD! Or with less than 6 cylinders, or 2.5ltrs! :)
Posts: 2,492
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Sept 11, 2013 7:53:58 GMT
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Wow, a lot of love for both engine choices. I also see that my website has just dropped off-line hence the now missing pictures! (normal service will hopefully resume shortly) I really do think that the V6 on throttle bodies would be the ultimate for keeping it in the spirit of the car, but that throttle body conversion isn't going to be cheap. But I am also tempted by the potential of the 5-pot turbo and it's relatively easy upgradeability and development once installed. I do like torque which the V6 should be able to deliver in spades but then the Rover 75 1.8Turbo I had until recently had a suprising amount of torque at low revs. Though it was only a relatively low pressure turbo. I'm in work at the moment so can't watch those videos until I get home tonight. As for a straight six, that's a bit too long really. The problem with the Scimitar is the engine is actualy 'mid-mounted'. It sits low behind the front axle line and so anything too long fouls the steering rack. A friend has a FWD Volvo T5 (hence the sudden thought of a 5-pot turbo) so I'll see if he'll let me have a go. Thanks for the replies and suggestions. Smiler. |
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www.Auto-tat.co.uk'96 Range Rover P38 DSE (daily driver) '71 Reliant Scimitar SE5 GTE 3.0ltr Jag V6 Conversion '79 Reliant Scimitar SE6A 3.0ltr 24valve Omega Conversion '85 Escort Cabrio 2.0 Zetec - Sold '91 BMW 525i - Sold '82 Cortina 2.9i Ghia Cosworth - Sold '72 VW Campervan - Sold '65 LandRover 88" - Sold
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Sept 11, 2013 8:39:07 GMT
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The 5 pot BT5235T in 240hp guise is the one to go for. it runs a simple motronic ecu which make the wiring relatively straight forward (even the later ME7 isnt hard to wire). It has plenty of torque everywhere and would guess its better than the V6
You haven't mentioned how your going to hook up either engine to a RWD gearbox! I'm not familiar with the Jag engine, but if its Ford based then that should be quite straight forward to mate it to what you have in your car already (I'm guessing here).
The Volvo motor can be mated to a 2.5 or 3.0 960/ V90 "M90" Gearbox (It must be from the 2.6 or 3.0 straight 6), but these are thin on the ground! The last time I needed one I had to buy a complete 960 and break it just for the box!
My vote is for the 5cyl. V6's are not the most enspiring engines imo.
If you want a V6, how about a BOA/BOB Cosworth lump? Probably the easiest swap.
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Smiler
Posted a lot
I no longer own anything FWD! Or with less than 6 cylinders, or 2.5ltrs! :)
Posts: 2,492
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Sept 11, 2013 9:40:31 GMT
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Thanks for that bit of info, I've been trying to do a google trawl through my break time but turning up a lot of adverts and old forum posts. Any clues as to what models they come in?
The Jag s-type 3.0ltr V6 comes in manual flavour and there are often a few MOT failures on ebay for £5-600. Electrics will be a nightmare though as the ECU & security system are apparently intergrated into lots of stuff.
Thanks for the info re: gearbox for the Volvo lump. That was someting I was also trying to nail down. I shall keep an eye out now that I know what to look for.
As for BOA/BOB Cosworth, no thanks. I have one in the Cortina, heavy, expensive, limited future options, all long in the tooth. There are better alternatives out there now such as the Omega V6 that's become popular with Scimitar owners. Same power & torque but available with a manual box and cheap service parts.
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www.Auto-tat.co.uk'96 Range Rover P38 DSE (daily driver) '71 Reliant Scimitar SE5 GTE 3.0ltr Jag V6 Conversion '79 Reliant Scimitar SE6A 3.0ltr 24valve Omega Conversion '85 Escort Cabrio 2.0 Zetec - Sold '91 BMW 525i - Sold '82 Cortina 2.9i Ghia Cosworth - Sold '72 VW Campervan - Sold '65 LandRover 88" - Sold
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r1173
Part of things
Posts: 189
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Sept 11, 2013 10:08:10 GMT
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If this doesn't sway you, nothing will.
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Smiler
Posted a lot
I no longer own anything FWD! Or with less than 6 cylinders, or 2.5ltrs! :)
Posts: 2,492
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Sept 11, 2013 11:58:17 GMT
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Lots to watch when I get home tonight then! I've just been trying to hunt a suitable gearbox for the olvo lump, they are a bit rare aren't they. |
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www.Auto-tat.co.uk'96 Range Rover P38 DSE (daily driver) '71 Reliant Scimitar SE5 GTE 3.0ltr Jag V6 Conversion '79 Reliant Scimitar SE6A 3.0ltr 24valve Omega Conversion '85 Escort Cabrio 2.0 Zetec - Sold '91 BMW 525i - Sold '82 Cortina 2.9i Ghia Cosworth - Sold '72 VW Campervan - Sold '65 LandRover 88" - Sold
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