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Right I'm hatching a cunning (read possibly retarded) plan, to use bike throttle bodies on my Sierra twincam engine. Anyway at the moment it's a pipe dream I'm exploring options and if it'll actually work or not. What I need to know is what diameter ITB's would be suit able for a 2.0/2.3 8V engine aiming for around 150-170bhp. I've seen some (circa 2003) GSXR 600 ITB's with a 38mm diameter. Like these... Will these physically flow enough air to be efficent? or do I need to go for something bigger?
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Sierra - here we go again! He has an illness, it's not his fault.
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Kieran
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,092
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What size ports are in the head.
If you compare them to a pair of 45 webers, you would probably want 36 or 38mm chokes in them so I'd say go for it!
I built a 1.6 k series using 33mm bike carbs and it made more power than stick and ran very well.
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The Ashby Jackson fleet:-
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stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,841
Club RR Member Number: 174
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Mar 15, 2013 10:48:46 GMT
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Should be plenty big enough if you keep the inlet manifold short.
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Mar 15, 2013 16:53:11 GMT
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What size ports are in the head. If you compare them to a pair of 45 webers, you would probably want 36 or 38mm chokes in them so I'd say go for it! I built a 1.6 k series using 33mm bike carbs and it made more power than stick and ran very well. Cool thanks for the info. The twincam has square shaped inlet ports, measuring about 42x42mm across and up/down. Should be plenty big enough if you keep the inlet manifold short. Honest question mate, how does the length of the manifold make a difference? I plan to make it as short as possible TBH, the injection twincam head has the injectors and fuel rail mounted in the head itself. Like this...
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Sierra - here we go again! He has an illness, it's not his fault.
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andyborris
Posted a lot
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose.
Posts: 2,165
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Mar 15, 2013 18:27:27 GMT
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Mar 15, 2013 20:26:40 GMT
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Honest question mate, how does the length of the manifold make a difference? I plan to make it as short as possible Runner length calculator put 3 or 4 as number of induction waves into calculator and you will need to google the cam duration (the final measurment is from inlet valve to inlet opening) you want it as long as possible. usually there isn't enough space under a bonnet to get it the length required. different length runners testedmakes for interesting reading.
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Last Edit: Mar 15, 2013 20:36:21 GMT by Bozwell
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Mar 15, 2013 20:43:28 GMT
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also square ports are bad for flow. (round is best)
block off the injector ports and round the top part of the port as much as possible. the injectors in the throttle bodies will be a much better position for performance as it gives the fuel more time to vaporise and mix with the air.
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Mar 15, 2013 22:11:17 GMT
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I hate to be that guy, but wouldn't a zetec swap be a better option? A zetec on itb's would be quite a few horses more, and miles better in reliability. Loads more aftermarket support and potential for more power. Most stock parts are cheaper too.
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Last Edit: Mar 16, 2013 0:31:58 GMT by dude
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Mar 15, 2013 22:46:27 GMT
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As mentioned, longer is better, to a point, get t as close as you can to the calculated figure then play about when mapping, trumpet and port shape can make a dramatic difference, the former can be played with easily.
Target BHP would tell you if the bodies would be large enough, I know that 42mm GSXR 750/1000 have been used on a 230 bhp 1600 and 240 bhp 2.2's by an engine builder I know of, any higher and he goes Jenvey 45 or 48.
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I have some (R6?) TBs that might suit quite well - are you coming to A52/the beach this month? Cheap to you.
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stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,841
Club RR Member Number: 174
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Mar 16, 2013 12:13:46 GMT
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I was always told that as inlet runner length goes up the thottle size needs to go up. 38mm choke seems fairly small for the engine size and power, hence keeping the manifold short.
I might be wrong, long time since i've done engines.
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Mar 16, 2013 12:56:33 GMT
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inlet runner length is from valve to opening of runner. so you can have the carbs close to the engine and have very long trumpets to get the overall length or have a long manifold and short trumpets with exactly the same runner length. i also read that the further away the butterflies the larger thay need to be but you also need the velocity. i also read that the higher the red line of the engine the further away the butterfly needs to be. with carbs or injectors further away from the head gives the fuel more time to atomize and will help with power. there is always a compromise in which configuration to go for whether it is drivability or all out power or somewhere inbetween. all i can say is very short runners will not help with power. from there it is either loads of testing of different configurations of length, size and position or build a manifold that should be somewhere in the middle and hope it works (that is what iv'e done)
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Mar 18, 2013 12:42:39 GMT
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38mm would be ideal. i've got gsxr 1000 split TB's on my redtop almost direct to head fitment due to space. they are overkill but got them cheap...42mm bore
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Mar 18, 2013 15:57:28 GMT
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I hate to be that guy, but wouldn't a zetec swap be a better option? I appreciate a Zetec option would be better in the long run for tuning, but I quite like the DOHC they are good on fuel and I'm not really up for having to fabricate and mess around loads. My plans are ultimately to build a 2.3 8v DOHC engine (using the 2.3 bottom end from a Scorpio mated my original head) with a lightened flywheel, throttle bodies and a 4 branch exhaust manifold. There a guy on FSOC who's got a similar setup minus the ITB's but with some piper cams and his made 168bhp. I don't want loads of power just enough to give the Sierra a bit more poke, but keep the reliability of a fairly unstressed NA engine. Probably won't happen, but you never know
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Sierra - here we go again! He has an illness, it's not his fault.
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kee
Posted a lot
Posts: 4,990
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Mar 19, 2013 13:02:09 GMT
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why not use the rs2000 head and have inlet manifolds readily availale and more power?
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Mar 26, 2013 17:03:14 GMT
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Try to match the total inlet runner length and exhaust runner length to get a rough starting point.
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