unitybonez
Part of things
Blowing Pintos
Posts: 870
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Jan 31, 2013 13:16:24 GMT
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So, starter turns, engine turns, fuel gets to the carb, it seemed like it had no spark, or a very weak one. Changed all bits, plugs, dizzy cap, rotor, points, condenser, coil. leads were basically new so left those. Now at the first crank it sorta fires but dies right after before I even have the time say curse word OFF! If I try right after I get no signs of life. I mean, it still turns and all, but doesnt fire. If I leave it to sit 10 or more minutes it would do the fire for a second thing. At this point I thought it was a floodin issue. Checked the carb, and when I saw the air filter cover full of gas on the inside and even gas gettin out of the hold down bolt holes I thought I had it. Tried startin w/out filter and the carb literally spits fuel! Problem is that once opened everything looks in place. No stuck bits or curse word bits. All seems ok. but if I pull the throttle lever it obvious how much fuel gets outta the nozzles, and I also had higher consumption lately so I might really be on the right track. This, or it has more than one problem Can a vacuum leak cause this? If not whos got ideas? BTW, opened the rocker cover to see if valves were stock or something but they all go up n down no problem and every turn I can hear the exhaust releasin pressure so it aint that. I'm AT A LOSS! Its my frekkin daily! HELP Pls!
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Last Edit: Mar 27, 2013 10:19:31 GMT by unitybonez
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Jan 31, 2013 13:22:59 GMT
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Check your rotor arm is making contact to the inside of the cap properly that's what was up with mine when it wouldn't start
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unitybonez
Part of things
Blowing Pintos
Posts: 870
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Jan 31, 2013 13:33:27 GMT
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changed 2 of them already, and 2 caps. I'm positive ignition is now fine. Unless its the key thing itself, but if it is i have a fuel delivery problem too.
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Sent from my ouiji board.
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Jan 31, 2013 14:09:31 GMT
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Carb spitting fuel, not running. Ignition timing. Maybe misplaced leads - double and triple check, it's easy to get wrong, especially when the firing order in the Haynes book is wrong - maybe just a long way retarded.
Increased consumption recently could be a sign of the timing altering due to the points wearing.
I'd suggest that you stop simply throwing bits at it and start to diagnose things properly - check the spark (big and blue or small and weak), ignition timing, compression even (would show up a slipped cambelt for example).
Sounds as though it's getting fuel and assuming it's a Weber type there's not too much to go wrong there - either it wouldn't run at all (no fuel) or it would but badly (wrong about of fuel - mixture screw).
I *really* need to get round to writing the "novice guide to points and carbs" that I keep meaning to do...
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Last Edit: Jan 31, 2013 14:34:02 GMT by jrevillug
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Jan 31, 2013 14:42:03 GMT
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I had a 1.6 Pinto Capri that suffered with starting issues. Brand new carb & fuel pump, compression test, new plugs, points, condensor, dizzy cap and leads all tried without success. In the end dismantled the dizzy one more time - and found the problem. The dizzy was alloy with a brass earth tag bolted on. I previoulsy hadn't bother removing this tag as it was bright metal. Turned out there was alloy corrosion between the earth tag and the alloy dizzy body that allowed some current to flow and therefore it seemed ignition Ok until under load within the combustion chamber. Clean up of earth tag taught me never to ignor the most simpliest things !
Paul h
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unitybonez
Part of things
Blowing Pintos
Posts: 870
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Jan 31, 2013 15:27:13 GMT
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Its not like ive thrown bits at it, i just tried to be as short as possible to try pinpoint the actual problem by tellin what ive done already. Since its pretty basic stuff i didnt think it was the case of writin a poem, but here goes:
The car is my daily since '07. Always ran. This last year started to run a bit like curse word, like if i permanently had the power brake on, or kinda. As soon as winter arrived it had trouble idleing when cold, of course its normal, but in this case it kept dyeing even after 10 minutes drive. At times it would die and wouldnt start for maybe 15/20 minutes. I thought it was a floodin problem, but maybe it was this very one at the early stages.
This is what i did since it definitley died 2 weeks ago: 1st thing i did was checkin if fuel got to the carb. check. 2nd, hot wired the coil. nada 3rd, removed a spark plug, layed it on the rocker cover with its lead on and cranked: weak as curse word tiny orange spark. thought i found the problem. 4th, swapped all the ignition bits one by one startin with the condenser and finishin with the plugs. first with old parts i had laying around then with brand new ones. Now i have new coil, condenser, points, rotor, cap, plugs, and as a consequence, good spark, infact it atleast tries to fire, but still wont run. 5th. Re- set timing at dead on TDC, still nada. And this thing can run way retarded or way advanced, i know cause ive been thinkerin with it for ages by swappin carbs and all related shizzit and i must have re-set timing dozens of times. Not saying I'm an engine expert, as I'm far from it, but up until this point i knew what i was doin and thought i was doin it right.
Does this makes more sense now? What i figured up until this point is that the main problem is one, but there are/were other factors that might have contributed. The plugs for starters, no pun LOL, were 4 years old, and the coil was probably 20 years old, so maybe the weak spark was caused by them, but wasnt the real problem, but just the good ol' confusion factor, hahah. Nuff said i guess.
I still think it spits way to much fuel, and its a 32/36 DGAV, but again, this could be just another random problem but not the cause of the no fire issue. Any suggestions?
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unitybonez
Part of things
Blowing Pintos
Posts: 870
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Jan 31, 2013 15:30:44 GMT
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Oh yeah, belts, tensioner, water pump etc....all new with about 1000 kms on them. I'd find it real weird if the belt has slipped being bang on new, but how would i check that?
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Last Edit: Jan 31, 2013 15:31:34 GMT by unitybonez
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Jan 31, 2013 15:39:35 GMT
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Whip the belt cover off and check that the timing marks still line up properly. It might be that it wasn't tensioned properly. Good work on the diagnosis so far - many people don't manage to get that far, so unless I know the person I never assume any specific knowledge. The one thing that springs immediately to mind is plug lead order. Beyond that it'd be well worth doing a compression test. It might be worth checking that the float needle in the carb is sealing properly too, as that would make it enormously rich.
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Kieran
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,092
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Jan 31, 2013 15:43:16 GMT
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Definatley got 12v at the coil with ignition on and not just when cranking?
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The Ashby Jackson fleet:-
1979 Mini Clubman 1.8 K series 1978 Skoda 110r Project 130RS K-oupe 1978 Austin Allegro 1500 SDL Estate 1984 BMW K100 Sidecar outfit 1999 Yamaha FZS 1000 Fazer 1991 Kawasaki ZXR400 race bike 2002 Kawasaki ZX9r race bike
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unitybonez
Part of things
Blowing Pintos
Posts: 870
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Jan 31, 2013 16:40:43 GMT
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don't have a belt cover and those damn pulleys never had any marks. I made on myself but when I left the car to the mech to swap the belt etc.. he didnt use it. I will try to advance/retard just in case the belt really slipped. As for the plugs theres no way they're wrong, as I always remove one at a time when swappin cap, and one at a time when swappin plugs LOL I had a bad accident with a VW years ago involving mis matched leads, that ended up in a more or less blown cylinder, so I always triple check Kieran, what sorta problem you are thinkin? I always forgot the multimeter so I never checked really. would that be an ignition switch problem? Will check needle again tomo morn, as unfortunatley the car died on the parking lot at work, so I have very little time to work on it, but mostly very little light. But then again, if it died on the way home on the motorway then it would have really been unfortunate....better be positive.
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Last Edit: Jan 31, 2013 16:42:11 GMT by unitybonez
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Kieran
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,092
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Jan 31, 2013 17:12:11 GMT
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If it's a ballasted ignition, the coil is supplied with around 9 volts with the ignition on, (12v through a ballast resistor = 9v). When cranking, a feed is connected from the starter motor giving it the full 12volts to aid starting.
I've had it before where it will fire whilst cranking (using the 12v boost), but then as soon as you release the key you loose the ignition feed.
Try a permanent 12v direct onto the + side of the coil.
Pintos timing marks are usually a small arrow in the cam pulley window.
Rule out fuel with a cheeky spray of easi start / brake cleaner down the carb inlet.
You can check the coil by removing the dizzy cap centre lead and resting it near the engine and flicking the points open. You should get a big fat spark that will jump at least 10mm.
Does it crank ok, it isn't a dying battery is it?
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Last Edit: Jan 31, 2013 17:18:06 GMT by Kieran
The Ashby Jackson fleet:-
1979 Mini Clubman 1.8 K series 1978 Skoda 110r Project 130RS K-oupe 1978 Austin Allegro 1500 SDL Estate 1984 BMW K100 Sidecar outfit 1999 Yamaha FZS 1000 Fazer 1991 Kawasaki ZXR400 race bike 2002 Kawasaki ZX9r race bike
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Darkspeed
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,710
Club RR Member Number: 39
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Jan 31, 2013 21:02:47 GMT
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Also check the needle valve in the carb is not stuck open or the floats cursed
ETA see its already been mooted
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Last Edit: Jan 31, 2013 21:03:52 GMT by Darkspeed
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unitybonez
Part of things
Blowing Pintos
Posts: 870
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I already hot wired the coil, as i was told that would have ruled out the ignition side as a problem. The problem with the fuel is too much of it, if a problem at all. I'm goin to swap carb later on with one from a 1.3 Kent. It will run like curse word but i know it does work on the 2.0l cause last year i used it for a couple days while i reuilt the DGAV. The very one that i think is givin me problems. After all the rebuild kit was from Motomobil so i wouldnt be surprised if parts i used were junk.
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,195
Club RR Member Number: 170
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The hotwiring of the coil would rule out the wiring to the coil partially, not the fact that the ignition system is fine . On the basis that you have a weak or no spark I would still be tempted to go down the ignition route. What brand were the bits that you acquired? Rotor arms and condensers can cause a myriad of silent faults. Whereabouts in the country are you? I have a couple of very handy ignition testing systems which have previously ruled out much of the ignition system in the past (the coil, leads, etc.), helping me save a good chunk of time:).
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,195
Club RR Member Number: 170
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I really should have checked the no. plate in his avatar!
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dgo
Part of things
Posts: 41
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Another vote for checking there's a good spark at the plug. Use one of those Gunson colourtune plugs or something.
Also check the rest of the wiring. If I remember right there are sometimes earth straps between baseplate and body in pinto distributors. Also check the engine earth straps
Double check the 9v/12v at the coil as above
As a second thought I'd start looking at the pipes going into the manifold to ensure you don't have a horrible air leak making the mixture so weak the car can't start
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Last Edit: Feb 2, 2013 10:15:14 GMT by dgo
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Its not got an Autochoke has it? My old mk5 tina had on its weber pinto ... the autochoke acted up and just overfuelled the engine, so ran like a bag of nails.
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unitybonez
Part of things
Blowing Pintos
Posts: 870
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I checked the motor ground strap the 1st day, and the one on the dizzy base plate too... and yep, I'm in italy. Havent done shizzit this weekend, spent time with the dogs andwatched movies all the time...later or tomo morn I'm gonna try the carb swap and let ya know. Good call on the auto choke btw, but how do i over ride it? That is if its the bit i think it is LOL
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bortaf
Posted a lot
Posts: 4,549
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I really should have checked the no. plate in his avatar! Usuually easyer if the OP had just filled in the place where it says location ?? it is there for a reason The cam pully should have a plate behind it with a pointer that needs to point UP at the dot in the head (plate is often missing) bottom pully has the ttiming marks cast into it, if they are missing change the pully it will be out of ballance, dizzy has a line in the top lip where the cap fits that the middle of the rotor arm should point at when at TDC (all 3 should be in the right place when at TDC) BUT the fuel should not be coming out the top of the carb at all so there is a problem there, 99% of the tiime it's the needle valve not shutting off cos the float height isn't set right or it simply is not sealing, wip the carb top off and check, empty the float chanber and try again.
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Last Edit: Feb 3, 2013 16:02:19 GMT by bortaf
R.I.P photobucket
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