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Sept 6, 2019 18:06:23 GMT
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Hi, Ballast system - Is a 6v coil with a 12v feed from the ign sw through a resistor which drops the voltage to 6v. When the engine is cranking it gets battery voltage from the starter but because of the starter load that comes down to the 8v you see which helps the coil fire. You could be right about the starter trigger wire has deteriorated or the contacts for it in the solenoid have, so a relayed feed is one way to fix it. Another way is to connect the ballast wire to the motor side of the solenoid terminal so it gets power when the engine is cranking. Colin Thanks. I'm sure it has a 12v coil on it though. I will check. Ill check the non cranking voltage at the coil too. If it has 6v from the ignition but a normal 12v coil what sort of issues would that give? Just weaker spark? I may need to get a new coil. The one thats on it was sorted by the AA andnim sure its just a standard 12v coil. Its been on it nearly all my ownership though.
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Sept 6, 2019 17:14:53 GMT
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I’d have thought that if that was the fault it’d show up when you bench tested it? But when i bench test it the drive gear isnt trying to locate with the ring gear. I thought maybe if the drive gear wasnt rotating to allow engagement it would limit solenoid throw. Anyhow, i no longer think thats the issue. I was just doing some in car testing (nearly blew the engine up and nearly set light to the whole van, but thats another story!!!). The solenoid provides 8v to the coil during cranking. If i disconnect the coil negative (was stopping it from starting while i checked starter function), the starter issue is solved. Connect coil and 'click, click', disconnect coil and boom, it spins the starter. I'm not 100% sure what that means though. I'm not sure if that 8v is supplied from the trigger feed to the solenoid or the battery supply once the solenoid triggers. My guess is it gets it from the trigger supply. Maybe the trigger supply cant supply enough current. I guess this 8v means it has a ballast system. It supplies 8v under cranking from the starter then when not cranking it gets 12v from the ignition switch? If i removed all that can i just run an ignition switched 12v to the coil (need a different coil?) And take the 8v load off the trigger system? I need to have a good look through the wiring diagrams and have a bit of a think. Relaying the trigger might just solve all this anyway. Before i nearly blew the van up i was triggering the solenoid direct from the battery and it spun the starter everytime and seemed to spin better for some reason. I realise i may have waffled on a bit there!
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Sept 6, 2019 14:11:15 GMT
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Hmmm, so the starter has sat on the bench an hour or so and now the one way bearing is stiff again. How smoothly and easily should it turn? Or is this not likely to be my issue as the armature can still turn backwards, although that is more weight to move.
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Sept 6, 2019 11:59:44 GMT
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May have missed it earlier in the thread, but have you ran fly leads out from the motor and solenoid terminals and watched what voltage is seen across them when cranking/attempting to crank? If it's significantly less than battery voltage, measure the voltage between battery positive and motor/solenoid +ve when cranking, then the negatives to battery negative to see which side the voltage drop is occurring on? I havent yet no. Mainly as its not cranking issue. Its not cranking slowly, its not spinning the starter at all. If its a voltage issue the issue would probably be consistant. With my symptoms it would have to be seeing either full voltage or low enough to not even attempt to crank, at random intervals every time you turn the key. I just cleaned and relubed the one way bearing in the drive gear. It turns easier now and is smoother. I still think it's probable the gear wasnt turning every time and therefore the bendix/lever assembly wasnt moving far enough for the solenoid to pass voltage to the motor. I'm not sure how easily the gear should spin backwards but the assembly feels nicer now, with no slack or noise. It had tight spots before. A new starter drive gear assembly is available if i need it though.
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Hi, Those starters are fitted to lots of vehicles, Rover V8's among them for example, The only bit that is particular to the slant four is the front housing that bolts to the bellhousing. So if all else fails change the housing over onto another starter. Colin Edit: Those two starter types are different sizes so be careful which one it is. Yeah, fitted to all the other slant vauxhalls too but as you say, with different front housings. Ive been trying to find what cars they were fitted to but cant find much info. Ebay search for m35j throws up alot of the other type, search for m35j/pe like mine and not much comes up. I don't know if they all share the same amount of drive gear teeth or not though. Ive been looking for the drive gear assembly and think i might have found one, need to get mine off and check it.
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Sept 5, 2019 21:39:56 GMT
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This is the starter. The more i think about it the more I'm sure this is the issue.
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Sept 5, 2019 21:22:34 GMT
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If an inertia has been replaced with a pre-engaged the the teeth could be clashing and not engaging and not allowing the solenoid to make an electrical connection. Colin Check this. If it's a pre-engaged starter, the problem may be that the pinion can't travel far enough. So it may work perfectly on the bench, but won't when it's fitted. Its the correct type of starter, its probably the original. Its been starting the van for 40 years. Its not a starter type or ring gear problem. What you have said has just made me realise something though. The starters drive gears one way bearing is a bit stiff. I made an attempt to clean it and oil it but its not that easy to spin in the non drive direction. I had figured it was ok as it locks up perfectly and i thought 'its only so when the engine starts the cog can spin and not fight the starter'. BUT, what you have just said has made me think. If the drive gear hits the teeth on the flywheel it relies on the starter gears teeths bevel to rotate it backwards so the two gears can engage. If thats not happening then the solenoid wont move far enough to close the contacts and power the starter. Am i right? Now this may be a problem as it didnt seem like that one way bearing wanted to free up any more than it was. It was smooth, but not very free moving. Starter off again, bendix off and ill see of i can clean it up. If i cant, i guess i need a new starter after all unless i can find a new bendix assembly.
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Last Edit: Sept 5, 2019 21:23:57 GMT by VW
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Sept 5, 2019 19:33:00 GMT
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Yeah, ill get to the bottom of it eventually.
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Sept 5, 2019 18:10:47 GMT
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How difficult is it to make a totally stand-alone starter circuit in the vehicle? Will tell you if the fault is in the motor or not? I’ve done it before using a push button to replace the ignition switch Depends on exactly how 'stand alone', but potentially pretty easy. It isnt really connected to much else as it is. I think ill relay the low tension anyway just to get it out the bulkhead socket. I guess i should double check voltage drop to the ignition switch itself too. While ive got all the terminals off ill do the same bench testing but as you say, with it in the van.
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Last Edit: Sept 5, 2019 18:11:01 GMT by VW
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Sept 5, 2019 18:04:20 GMT
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Hammer a torx bit into them. Came here to say this 😀 Its the standard solution.
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Sept 5, 2019 15:58:47 GMT
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Put the recharged battery in and its still doing it!
Only 2 options left. The trigger wire isnt providing enough power to make the solenoid work properly (i have everything needed except an inline fuse to relay this) Or, the starter hasnt got enough power to turn the engine over (id have expected it to make some struggling noises sometimes rather than just 'click' or 'engine spinning')
Ill relay the trigger wiring off the battery terminal tomorrow and if that doesnt work i guess ill set light to it.
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Sept 4, 2019 22:01:20 GMT
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anything Italian is going to be an uncommon pcd like 5x98. Its obviously hard to tell from a pic but ive been looking at alot of 5 stud 14" wheels recently and they do look like quite a small pcd. Under 4.5" so could be somewhere around that. The axle may be a red herring as far as the car is concerned but are there many 5 stud small trailers or maybe caravans that axle could have come from?
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Sept 4, 2019 21:20:46 GMT
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Teeth are all fine. Surely problems with the ring gear would show as the starter spinning but not turning the engine over.
In other news, i put a new earth lead on it today although the old one was fine. Not refitted the battery yet though so cant test. If its still doing it the only thing left is to sort out the trigger wiring.
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Sept 4, 2019 21:07:13 GMT
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Are you sure it's not the ring gear? In what way are you thinking?
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Sept 4, 2019 20:33:05 GMT
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Sept 4, 2019 20:28:27 GMT
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It wasnt. Id forgotten about that film 😂
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Sept 4, 2019 18:56:11 GMT
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I had to cut flats on the cf when i changed the pcd. Its a real pain without proper machinery. Stick with threaded then, I'm sure there will be a specialist supplier somewhere.
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Sept 4, 2019 18:41:27 GMT
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Been incredibly slack with pics but have been chipping away at this trying to get it ready for going away. Ive fitted new wheel cylinders and shoes, finished redrilling the brakes, painted the rear axle, rebuilt the starter, got the water level gauge working, made a new earth lead, fixed the fuel tank breather so it no longer stinks inside, fixed a door pod and am currently rebuilding my spare lower arms as they have better bushes. I need to replace all the ball joint boots as the new ones i fitted were awful and put the spring isolators back in.
Giving it a bit of a going over mechanically to make sure it stays reliable and drives nice, new ignition parts, engine mounts, carb rebuild etc, then once ive been away ill strip the engine down for new gaskets and a repaint then hopefully finish the interior.
When stuff worth taking pics of happens ill take some! I still need to sort out my other wheels, finish the curtains, recover the seats, fit new carpets and do something with the cupboards, either paint or build new ones.
Loads going on, loads still to do!
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Sept 4, 2019 18:27:10 GMT
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Either that, or drill out the threads and replace the studs with pull-in mini spec ones. Exactly what i was going to suggest. Assuming the rear face is flat, just drill the holes out and press (hammer) new ones in. Not sure id want to pull the new ones in with the nuts though, first time in they have to cut the splines into the hub and thats hard work. Will the hubs come off easily?
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Sept 4, 2019 17:56:07 GMT
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Can you measure the spline diameter and count the splines on the unknown one? Edit, i make it 36 which means its no use to me anyway, but that info should help anyone else who may want it
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Last Edit: Sept 4, 2019 17:57:38 GMT by VW
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