There seems to be a lot of questions about insurance lately so I thought I'd write up some info which I have put together over “a few” years of owning older cars, modified cars, and occasionally trading in old tat cars. In those “few” years I've had some great experiences and some bad ones. I've suffered the slings and arrows of outrageous premiums too.
Aggregator web sites
OK, first thing to get straight is that unless you are insuring a bog-stock, late model car then do not bother with the go-quote-my-merekat-happy.com outfits. The one time I took a policy through one of these because it was cheap I regretted it. I wasn't allowed to lower the car or even swap on a set of different alloys. Many of these cheap places have the worst customer service in the world and are unlikely to get into games like letting you recover cool stuff off your car (like those neat banded steels or Moon flake wheel) should it be written off or stolen recovered. When I am comparing quotes I am comparing stuff which these websites don't even tell you. Do I have right of salvage? What level of mods can I do without further jacking the premium? What admin fees are there for changing cars or details or mods part way through the policy, etc. There is much more to insurance than just the cheapest premium, and that isn't always found in the big name companies either anyway.
Classic Policies
Specialist insurance brokers (see list below) will offer a range of specialist policies which are typically lumped together under “classic policies” but many are not actually “classic” policies. There is no industry standard definition of what a classic policy is or what a classic car is so this will vary from company to company and generally you have to ring and ask. Usually a classic policy generates no NCB, does not calculate risk based on insurance group and will have usage restrictions (such as limited mileage, must be garaged at home address overnight and no business use). Typically “any car over 25 years old” will go on one of these. You usually are required to have another car as a daily driver and be over 25 with a clean driving record and be member of a recognised classic car club for that make and model. Some high risk professions and bad post codes may be unable to get classic insurance. Some companies sell regular road risks policies and call them “classic” policies – beware that these don't offer the benefits which classic policies do. In fact some normal car policies can leave you uninsured at a car show and personally liable for any third party claims (e.g. injury etc.)
The principal benefits of classic insurance are that you get an agreed value for your car should it be stolen, written off, etc. and that extended cover is often included for parts off the vehicle and so forth. You should also find a right of salvage is included (i.e. you can buy your car back directly if it is Cat C or Cat D and have a right to strip the parts off if it is Cat C or Cat B. Some classic policies will allow you to supply your own parts (and even labour) to repair your car if it is damaged. For example if you have a Ford Pop and someone clips both fenders on one side you could find the car written off by a mainstream insurer who then puts it Cat C and its off to the salvage auction before you can say “but I have a couple of second hand wings in my shed, I could fit them and paint them for, oh, shall we say £250?” Some classic policies allow this sort of horse trading. Its called a “right of self repair” and it could save your pride and joy from the scrap yard.
Some classic policies are very strict about not allowing mods, some are surprisingly free and easy on the subject. A mate had his insurance declined on a bog-stock Humber because it had a non-standard paint job. This is one reason why they ask for photos... On the other hand my classic insurance was happy to quote and cover a Mk2 Consul with V6 Granada running gear. The big deal about dealing with a specialist insurer is that you are not dealing with a call centre, you are dealing with people who understand cars and what you are about.
You may also find the insurance premiums are cheaper!
Trade Policies
Some people think that trade policies are the answer to avoiding high premiums for driving “risky” cars. Others think it is the answer for those of us who change our cars so often that we pay as much in admin fees as we do in premiums. The answer, as with all things pertaining to insurance, is that it depends very much on your individual circumstance. Trade policies are for traders. If you do not do any motor trade you will technically be uninsured. This happened to a lad on another forum some time ago who couldn't insure his heavily modded car so he took a trade policy. When he crashed it they asked for proof of trading. As he had none he was left uninsured. Oops.
Now for many of us the fact we are buying and selling car, parts, etc. all the time is probably “proof of trade” but I would advocate you are straight with your insurers when getting quotes. This is what I did when I took a trade policy some time ago and they were fine with me. I told them I worked full time but wanted to trade a few cars (maybe one per month) from home as well as sell bits of autojumble junk on eBay.
Be aware that many trade policies will not cover you driving to work in your day job, will not cover cars stolen from your home (even if you declare that as your trading address) and will generally only offer TPO cover and at market value. When I had a trade policy I kept on my classic policy with my “nice” cars on it. You can add “at home cover” and “commuting” and all sorts but most policies do not do so by default so if you go for a trade policy make sure it covers everything you need.
Also make sure you tell any other insurance you have that you have an additional profession as a motor trader as they will consider this to be a material fact.
Club and other special policies
NSRA offer a special policy for hot rods and some other “qualifying” types of car. Some owners clubs have special insurance deals for cars covered by their club. Some kit car policies may be applicable to stuff you own. These will be similar to Classic Policies in many ways so check them out to see if there are restrictions or benefits which will suit you.
Private use of commercial vehicles
This is a hard one. Many insurance companies just can't get their head around why a private citizen would need to have a beaver tail truck or a Luton van. If your truck is old enough you may be able to get it on some form of classic policy. Otherwise you will have to convince someone you are not running some form of unrecorded business. When looking at commercial vehicles of all sorts please check you can insure it before you buy it!
Driving other cars
So much is talked about this on the internet it is untrue, and so much opinion is offered which is rubbish. These are TeH faXxTz: (and I checked these out again today, 26/1/11):
The other vehicle does not need to be insured by anyone else. OK, if it isn't you will flag up on an ANPR check, but if you have this cover extension on your policy then your insurance covers you to drive any car which is not owned by you, leased to you, rented by you or under a hire-purchase agreement with you. The cover is in place while you are “in charge of the vehicle”. So if you borrow a car off a mate, it has no insurance on it but your insurance covers “driving other cars” then you are covered. If you stop, park it in the street and go buy some sweets from the corner shop, it is still insured in the eyes of the law as per the Road Traffic Act as you are deemed to be “in charge” of the car even though you are not in it at the time. Of course as its is only insured at third party only risk there is no actual cover in place should it be stolen or burnt or damaged by an unknown third party.
Passing Off and similar stunts
There are two insurance stunts which are as old as the industry and have a fair risk of you getting caught out on because they are so well known.
First is “this is my Dad's car and I am a named driver”. Be aware that a named driver is expected to be an occasional user of the car only. If you drive a slammed rat look VW and your dad is 70 years old and disabled and also happens to have a Camry automatic then come claim time it might be just a little obvious something is amiss. You can insure the car through your dad with you specified as the main driver. This is allowed. Don't confuse the two.
A similar stunt is common with students and those who have recently left home. You have a choice of two addresses and one is a low risk (rural Berkshire or some-such) and the other is high risk (Nottingham, Merseyside, etc.) so you insure the car at the lower risk address to save a few quid. Students may have more space to argue if this goes against them but insurance companies can decline cover should they find out about this. If you genuinely live between two addresses then tell them and let them work out the premium based on that. If you are still using a previous address from 5 years ago where you only visit once a month to pick up your mail or something then you won't get much play for that!
Material facts
A “material fact” is anything that the insurance company thinks may change its opinion of you as a risk. You and I may not agree that adding a tow bar makes your car a higher risk but your insurance may. Material Facts may include changing job, getting divorced, adding a roof rack, fitting alloy wheels, Green Stuff brake pads, etc. When in doubt, ask them. If you are with a decent insurer then they will have a far more relaxed attitude towards recording material fact changes without affecting premium. Failure to notify a change of material facts can leave you uninsured.
Legitimate stunts
There are a couple of legitimate ways to make sure your premium isn't too high. Neither of these are “naughty” so feel free to use them with a clear conscience!
1. Additional drivers: seems counter intuitive but really, adding extra drivers to your insurance can lower the premium. Adding my wife to the Lexus insurance brought it down by 40%. If you are not married maybe add a parent. They might have cause to drive your car, right?
2. Change your job: OK, don't change your job really, but think what it is that you do. Obviously there is no wiggle room if you are a well defined job like “police officer” or “teacher” but some years ago I found out when trying to get the best match for “Business Contract Compliance Manager for Strategic IT Outsourcing” (which amazingly isn't on the drop down list on any insurer I found) that there was a real difference in premium between “IT Consultant” “IT Engineer” and “Clerical Manager”...
Also when discussing mods with your friendly insurance broker make sure that you emphasise that your mods are for safety, security, improving the investment value, because original parts are not available, etc. not “coz its well wikkid innit gone burn up da seafront big style wid it yo” which can help them see things your way.
Dealing with Insurance Companies
Check everything they send you for errors. Seems unfair but if they forgot to include something and then later use that as an excuse not to pay you out they usually get away with it because the covering letter with your documents tells you to check them!
Do everything in writing and keep a copy. If you do fill in online forms you should have the option to save a copy. If all else fails Print-Screen works just fine. In the event of a “you never told us about the V8 engine swap” you have a copy of your proposal form etc. to prove you did.
Be polite and professional. Even if you are dealing with a call centre monkey. God knows what notes they can put on your account... If you deal with a decent insurer you shouldn't have to deal with call centre monkeys anyway.
Notify them of material facts promptly. Ideally you should check these out before you commit. This is not always possible (e.g. becoming unemployed or divorced) but do check they will insure you before fitting nitrous or whatever.
If you do have an accident take photos at the scene. Not just because you can post them here for us to laugh at you (or commiserative if we are feeling generous) but because its not uncommon for other parties to change their story to make their claim more advantageous to them... Write up what happened while it is still clear in your mind. Get any witnesses details, this is only necessary really if someone is injured, IME it its damage-only claim then the insurance can't be bothered with contacting witnesses.
In the event of a claim make sure that all your “uninsured losses” are recovered, which means when claiming for them make sure they are reasonable. This is how insurance companies assess fault in future years. If you have an accident and the claim is settled less your excess, and with a record of you failing to get paid out for loss of earnings or hire car then it is assumed that both parties were responsible at least in part. If you were not at all at fault then you should make sure you get back everything you paid out which is how it shows on your record as not your fault. Don't load your claim with frivolous items which may not get paid because this will hurt your record (on top of being dishonest...)
Contact List
A list of decent insurance companies, feel free to contribute your own. Specialists only please “I got a great price off Direct Line on the Corsa” is kinda missing the whole point.
Peter James www.peterjamesinsurance.co.uk
Footman James www.footmanjames.co.uk
HIC www.hertsinsurance.com
Adrian Flux www.adrianflux.co.uk
Graham Sykes www.graham-sykes.co.uk
Sureterm www.sureterm.com
Performance Direct www.performancedirect.co.uk
Norton Insurance www.norton-ib.co.uk
Competition Insurance: www.competition-car-insurance.co.uk
Aggregator web sites
OK, first thing to get straight is that unless you are insuring a bog-stock, late model car then do not bother with the go-quote-my-merekat-happy.com outfits. The one time I took a policy through one of these because it was cheap I regretted it. I wasn't allowed to lower the car or even swap on a set of different alloys. Many of these cheap places have the worst customer service in the world and are unlikely to get into games like letting you recover cool stuff off your car (like those neat banded steels or Moon flake wheel) should it be written off or stolen recovered. When I am comparing quotes I am comparing stuff which these websites don't even tell you. Do I have right of salvage? What level of mods can I do without further jacking the premium? What admin fees are there for changing cars or details or mods part way through the policy, etc. There is much more to insurance than just the cheapest premium, and that isn't always found in the big name companies either anyway.
Classic Policies
Specialist insurance brokers (see list below) will offer a range of specialist policies which are typically lumped together under “classic policies” but many are not actually “classic” policies. There is no industry standard definition of what a classic policy is or what a classic car is so this will vary from company to company and generally you have to ring and ask. Usually a classic policy generates no NCB, does not calculate risk based on insurance group and will have usage restrictions (such as limited mileage, must be garaged at home address overnight and no business use). Typically “any car over 25 years old” will go on one of these. You usually are required to have another car as a daily driver and be over 25 with a clean driving record and be member of a recognised classic car club for that make and model. Some high risk professions and bad post codes may be unable to get classic insurance. Some companies sell regular road risks policies and call them “classic” policies – beware that these don't offer the benefits which classic policies do. In fact some normal car policies can leave you uninsured at a car show and personally liable for any third party claims (e.g. injury etc.)
The principal benefits of classic insurance are that you get an agreed value for your car should it be stolen, written off, etc. and that extended cover is often included for parts off the vehicle and so forth. You should also find a right of salvage is included (i.e. you can buy your car back directly if it is Cat C or Cat D and have a right to strip the parts off if it is Cat C or Cat B. Some classic policies will allow you to supply your own parts (and even labour) to repair your car if it is damaged. For example if you have a Ford Pop and someone clips both fenders on one side you could find the car written off by a mainstream insurer who then puts it Cat C and its off to the salvage auction before you can say “but I have a couple of second hand wings in my shed, I could fit them and paint them for, oh, shall we say £250?” Some classic policies allow this sort of horse trading. Its called a “right of self repair” and it could save your pride and joy from the scrap yard.
Some classic policies are very strict about not allowing mods, some are surprisingly free and easy on the subject. A mate had his insurance declined on a bog-stock Humber because it had a non-standard paint job. This is one reason why they ask for photos... On the other hand my classic insurance was happy to quote and cover a Mk2 Consul with V6 Granada running gear. The big deal about dealing with a specialist insurer is that you are not dealing with a call centre, you are dealing with people who understand cars and what you are about.
You may also find the insurance premiums are cheaper!
Trade Policies
Some people think that trade policies are the answer to avoiding high premiums for driving “risky” cars. Others think it is the answer for those of us who change our cars so often that we pay as much in admin fees as we do in premiums. The answer, as with all things pertaining to insurance, is that it depends very much on your individual circumstance. Trade policies are for traders. If you do not do any motor trade you will technically be uninsured. This happened to a lad on another forum some time ago who couldn't insure his heavily modded car so he took a trade policy. When he crashed it they asked for proof of trading. As he had none he was left uninsured. Oops.
Now for many of us the fact we are buying and selling car, parts, etc. all the time is probably “proof of trade” but I would advocate you are straight with your insurers when getting quotes. This is what I did when I took a trade policy some time ago and they were fine with me. I told them I worked full time but wanted to trade a few cars (maybe one per month) from home as well as sell bits of autojumble junk on eBay.
Be aware that many trade policies will not cover you driving to work in your day job, will not cover cars stolen from your home (even if you declare that as your trading address) and will generally only offer TPO cover and at market value. When I had a trade policy I kept on my classic policy with my “nice” cars on it. You can add “at home cover” and “commuting” and all sorts but most policies do not do so by default so if you go for a trade policy make sure it covers everything you need.
Also make sure you tell any other insurance you have that you have an additional profession as a motor trader as they will consider this to be a material fact.
Club and other special policies
NSRA offer a special policy for hot rods and some other “qualifying” types of car. Some owners clubs have special insurance deals for cars covered by their club. Some kit car policies may be applicable to stuff you own. These will be similar to Classic Policies in many ways so check them out to see if there are restrictions or benefits which will suit you.
Private use of commercial vehicles
This is a hard one. Many insurance companies just can't get their head around why a private citizen would need to have a beaver tail truck or a Luton van. If your truck is old enough you may be able to get it on some form of classic policy. Otherwise you will have to convince someone you are not running some form of unrecorded business. When looking at commercial vehicles of all sorts please check you can insure it before you buy it!
Driving other cars
So much is talked about this on the internet it is untrue, and so much opinion is offered which is rubbish. These are TeH faXxTz: (and I checked these out again today, 26/1/11):
The other vehicle does not need to be insured by anyone else. OK, if it isn't you will flag up on an ANPR check, but if you have this cover extension on your policy then your insurance covers you to drive any car which is not owned by you, leased to you, rented by you or under a hire-purchase agreement with you. The cover is in place while you are “in charge of the vehicle”. So if you borrow a car off a mate, it has no insurance on it but your insurance covers “driving other cars” then you are covered. If you stop, park it in the street and go buy some sweets from the corner shop, it is still insured in the eyes of the law as per the Road Traffic Act as you are deemed to be “in charge” of the car even though you are not in it at the time. Of course as its is only insured at third party only risk there is no actual cover in place should it be stolen or burnt or damaged by an unknown third party.
Passing Off and similar stunts
There are two insurance stunts which are as old as the industry and have a fair risk of you getting caught out on because they are so well known.
First is “this is my Dad's car and I am a named driver”. Be aware that a named driver is expected to be an occasional user of the car only. If you drive a slammed rat look VW and your dad is 70 years old and disabled and also happens to have a Camry automatic then come claim time it might be just a little obvious something is amiss. You can insure the car through your dad with you specified as the main driver. This is allowed. Don't confuse the two.
A similar stunt is common with students and those who have recently left home. You have a choice of two addresses and one is a low risk (rural Berkshire or some-such) and the other is high risk (Nottingham, Merseyside, etc.) so you insure the car at the lower risk address to save a few quid. Students may have more space to argue if this goes against them but insurance companies can decline cover should they find out about this. If you genuinely live between two addresses then tell them and let them work out the premium based on that. If you are still using a previous address from 5 years ago where you only visit once a month to pick up your mail or something then you won't get much play for that!
Material facts
A “material fact” is anything that the insurance company thinks may change its opinion of you as a risk. You and I may not agree that adding a tow bar makes your car a higher risk but your insurance may. Material Facts may include changing job, getting divorced, adding a roof rack, fitting alloy wheels, Green Stuff brake pads, etc. When in doubt, ask them. If you are with a decent insurer then they will have a far more relaxed attitude towards recording material fact changes without affecting premium. Failure to notify a change of material facts can leave you uninsured.
Legitimate stunts
There are a couple of legitimate ways to make sure your premium isn't too high. Neither of these are “naughty” so feel free to use them with a clear conscience!
1. Additional drivers: seems counter intuitive but really, adding extra drivers to your insurance can lower the premium. Adding my wife to the Lexus insurance brought it down by 40%. If you are not married maybe add a parent. They might have cause to drive your car, right?
2. Change your job: OK, don't change your job really, but think what it is that you do. Obviously there is no wiggle room if you are a well defined job like “police officer” or “teacher” but some years ago I found out when trying to get the best match for “Business Contract Compliance Manager for Strategic IT Outsourcing” (which amazingly isn't on the drop down list on any insurer I found) that there was a real difference in premium between “IT Consultant” “IT Engineer” and “Clerical Manager”...
Also when discussing mods with your friendly insurance broker make sure that you emphasise that your mods are for safety, security, improving the investment value, because original parts are not available, etc. not “coz its well wikkid innit gone burn up da seafront big style wid it yo” which can help them see things your way.
Dealing with Insurance Companies
Check everything they send you for errors. Seems unfair but if they forgot to include something and then later use that as an excuse not to pay you out they usually get away with it because the covering letter with your documents tells you to check them!
Do everything in writing and keep a copy. If you do fill in online forms you should have the option to save a copy. If all else fails Print-Screen works just fine. In the event of a “you never told us about the V8 engine swap” you have a copy of your proposal form etc. to prove you did.
Be polite and professional. Even if you are dealing with a call centre monkey. God knows what notes they can put on your account... If you deal with a decent insurer you shouldn't have to deal with call centre monkeys anyway.
Notify them of material facts promptly. Ideally you should check these out before you commit. This is not always possible (e.g. becoming unemployed or divorced) but do check they will insure you before fitting nitrous or whatever.
If you do have an accident take photos at the scene. Not just because you can post them here for us to laugh at you (or commiserative if we are feeling generous) but because its not uncommon for other parties to change their story to make their claim more advantageous to them... Write up what happened while it is still clear in your mind. Get any witnesses details, this is only necessary really if someone is injured, IME it its damage-only claim then the insurance can't be bothered with contacting witnesses.
In the event of a claim make sure that all your “uninsured losses” are recovered, which means when claiming for them make sure they are reasonable. This is how insurance companies assess fault in future years. If you have an accident and the claim is settled less your excess, and with a record of you failing to get paid out for loss of earnings or hire car then it is assumed that both parties were responsible at least in part. If you were not at all at fault then you should make sure you get back everything you paid out which is how it shows on your record as not your fault. Don't load your claim with frivolous items which may not get paid because this will hurt your record (on top of being dishonest...)
Contact List
A list of decent insurance companies, feel free to contribute your own. Specialists only please “I got a great price off Direct Line on the Corsa” is kinda missing the whole point.
Peter James www.peterjamesinsurance.co.uk
Footman James www.footmanjames.co.uk
HIC www.hertsinsurance.com
Adrian Flux www.adrianflux.co.uk
Graham Sykes www.graham-sykes.co.uk
Sureterm www.sureterm.com
Performance Direct www.performancedirect.co.uk
Norton Insurance www.norton-ib.co.uk
Competition Insurance: www.competition-car-insurance.co.uk
Ax GTi Turbo
