kevfromwales
Posted a lot
the conrod's REALLY out the block now!
Posts: 3,909
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surely you'd be better to just buy a polo shell from a breakers, as you're effectively cutting up a complete running car to just get a shell and glass? (not as though shagged polo breadys are going to be hard to find) - then you stil have a car to run around in while you build the new one
if you floorpan it, you will end up with a Q plate as you are in modified monocoque (the mazda's) territory, if you built a chassis to carry the mx5 subframes and the polo body, and you have a donor v5c from the mazda, then afaik you can avoid a Q - depends if it bothers you I guess
sounds like it could well be do-able
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Almost on the road: b11 sunny breadvan, e36 tds, 325i skidcar,
nearly there: ford f250 tathauler, suzuki alto, u11 bluey
not for a while: ford pop, 32 rails,
not in this lifetime: ruby, '29 hillman
''unfortanatly I'm quite old and scruffy and in need of some loving. my drive shaft needs a new boot....''
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scrap the polo and boost the mazda, job done
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stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,950
Club RR Member Number: 174
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Volkswagen Polo Mk2 Track: Front - 1320mm Rear - 1350mm Mazda MX-5 track Front - 1410mm Rear - 1427mm So 90mm will need removing from the front track and 77mm from the rear. Looking at these pics of the one Bruce was breaking there seems to be plenty of room to narrow the front and rear subframes. Will need new anti roll bars and a different steering rack though. Matt
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or just some arches even easier.
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theres more to life than mpg & to much power is just enough.
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johnboy
Part of things
Teeth like a burnt down fence!
Posts: 405
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if you can pull it off i think it would be one of the biggest wins ever IMO ;D
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I love V-TEC like a fat kid loves cake 97 civic VTi
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@retrowagen: I do know how small the engine bay is and I know fitting any engine in there would be tight, but it¡¦s more space front to back than you¡¦d normally have with a fwd car and as long as I¡¦m not using long stuff like straight sixes I should be okay. Again, this is from just eyeballing a few things side by side rather than actual measuring so I know it¡¦s not going to be straightforward. Yes, car is cool without the rwd idea, but would be so much cooler with it Insurance I have taken into account, in fact it¡¦s one of my questions. I¡¦m not going to be doing this to the car this year, I couldn¡¦t afford to, but in a year or two things should be different, mrj: sneaky¡K but never going to work in the real world robinmasters: Trouble with the Suzuki SJ chassis is that I suspect it would make everything too high. Plus, I¡¦d more than likely have to get another donor vehicle for much of the running gear since I don¡¦t want to go the offroad/ 4x4 look. I don¡¦t know enough about what could and couldn¡¦t be used for this option to be able to make any kind of informed decision but I¡¦d be interested to know more about it. kevfromwales: These polos are getting harder to find now, especially in any sort of decent condition. The shell I¡¦ve got is nice and solid so there¡¦s less likely to be any unpleasant surprises and I can live without a car for a few months while the work is done. If anything, I¡¦d get a second car to pootle about in while the work was done to the existing car if I had to have a car. Q plates don¡¦t bother me really unless they somehow make the car uninsurable. stealthstylz: Thank you for the measurements, I couldn¡¦t find anything out there myself, didn¡¦t really know where to look. The amount that needs to be lost is not very much and could easily be compensated with some minor arch modification. There¡¦s at least 50mm can be gained without altering the body at all, and probably twice that with some arch massage, though I suspect the difficulty may be getting the suspension to line up with the body shell rather than the wheels with the holes, thus requiring narrowing of the subframes? Happily, the Polo and MX5 appear to share the same wheel pcd, which means I can keep the sneakiness with original banded steels. I¡¦m glad I put this post out there, there¡¦s been some useful advice thus far. Thank you everyone ƒº
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stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,950
Club RR Member Number: 174
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I'd do as Kev says and get another shell. This isn't a "few months" project, it's a good 3-4 years of work if you've never done anything similar before.
Matt
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If it's going to be a several year build time then yes, getting another shell is probably the best option. That does raise some problems when it comes to having the space to do the work as I'd have to have a garage or similar reliably for that period of time, but not impossible.
I was expecting it would be a case of getting a donor and stripping it down which could be done over the course of a few weekends and evenings and then epic amounts of measuring and remeasuring before getting into the actual build. In my head, I was expecting something like a 12-18 month build time from start to finish as long as I had people with experience helping me out (but not doing all the work for me, that would be lame of me), that was perhaps a little optimistic?
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stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,950
Club RR Member Number: 174
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For building cars the easiest way is to work out a budget and timescale what you think is feasible, then triple it and you'll be somewhere near.
Unless you have a constant flow of money to buy bits as needed you'll run into times when you can't get anything major done.
Anybody who says building cars is easy is lying. Fun yes. Easy no.
The other option for you might be to make a chassis similar to what Dez made for that Beetle then plonk the body on the top.
Matt
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I don't think you'll lose anything other than a bit of time by cutting the MX5 down to bare basics and seeing whats left, its been done before with various cars and is MUCH easier than altering a cars floor to accept the new components.
There have even been a few on here, i remember the Cresta on the Jag floorpan, there was an old XJ going onto a newer jag floorpan, there has been a mk1 escort running around on a shortened 4x4 cossie floorpan for years, a 3 litre capri floor unfder a morris minor etc etc.
It may sound like a big project for a novice but actually its not that bad if your brave, if you think about chopping all the outer panels off and leaving the bulkhead in there, that gets rid of the need to worry about swopping engines and gearboxes, make the mounts for the suspension, build a trans tunnel, run wiring, run brake and fuel lines, get the polos instruments to work with the mazda mechanicals, build a chassis, make seat and seat belt mounts (ok you may have to make the top ones ups)
you drop the polo shell over the top and see what fits where, it wont be hard to work the mazdas wiring loom into the polos lights and wipers, and youd have all the mazdas dash ready to refit inside, plus of you ever need any service parts its all mazda and could probably even go into a dealer without any bother.
Q reg and BIVA would not be that hard to get for it and you could add any of the stock MX5 tuning gear, it may LOOK like more work, but actually i think it would be MUCH faster and easier than trying to bolt the mazda bits to a polo shell.
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Volvo back as my main squeeze, more boost and some interior goodies on the way.
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The breather on the back of the block on my 1100 Polo needed changing. No room to fit so ended up having to lift engine on crane and tilt for access. If it's that bad working on standard Polo with transverse lump then it's going to be very tight fitting an in line engine. I'd find someone with a MX5 who will let you loose with tape measure as you might find the engine could end up under the dash and gearlever suitable for rear passengers. I rather like the idea of a Polo G40 engine mid mounted. Paul H
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but it don't matter if the bay is to short if your dropping the polo shell over the mazda, ok access will not be great at the back, but the mazdas bulkhead is already in the right place and you'll just find yourself sitting a bit further back in the polo.
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Volvo back as my main squeeze, more boost and some interior goodies on the way.
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kevfromwales
Posted a lot
the conrod's REALLY out the block now!
Posts: 3,909
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if you measure from the centre of the front wheel on your polo, to a fixed point in the cabin relating to driver position (eg pedals, seat) - then someone with a std mx5 does the same, you'll be able to see the relation between your 'new' bulkhead and your new seat - if you floorpan'd it
I think that makes sense - it does to me!
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Almost on the road: b11 sunny breadvan, e36 tds, 325i skidcar,
nearly there: ford f250 tathauler, suzuki alto, u11 bluey
not for a while: ford pop, 32 rails,
not in this lifetime: ruby, '29 hillman
''unfortanatly I'm quite old and scruffy and in need of some loving. my drive shaft needs a new boot....''
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kevfromwales
Posted a lot
the conrod's REALLY out the block now!
Posts: 3,909
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oh, and I'd deffo just get a shell - I know they are getting less common, but I'm sure an mot failure would turn up with rotten sills - or wherever polos rot, er rotten
there's a fella up here in sunny north wales who had a really nice old ford, on the road, running - like a show car - he decided to build a spaceframed version - when I saw it it was a roof, screen surround and 1/2 the rear quarters
- also, what about building a wide arched 'berg' version?? - or is it a sleeper you're set on?
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Almost on the road: b11 sunny breadvan, e36 tds, 325i skidcar,
nearly there: ford f250 tathauler, suzuki alto, u11 bluey
not for a while: ford pop, 32 rails,
not in this lifetime: ruby, '29 hillman
''unfortanatly I'm quite old and scruffy and in need of some loving. my drive shaft needs a new boot....''
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I've just been searching for blueprints of a MX5 and can see a problem. The seats in an MX5 are just infront of the rear wheel. That means if a Polo shell was added to a MX5 floorpan the driver would be virtually sitting where the back seat is at present.
Paul H
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why is that a problem?
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Volvo back as my main squeeze, more boost and some interior goodies on the way.
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popuptoaster: Very good points. It does make sense when you put it like that and does sound a lot easier. Bravery is something I have when it comes to learning new skills, but tempered with wanting to get it right, so I'm happy enough to wade into this as long as I've got the planning right. kevfromwales: I'll get the tape out when I'm at the barn next, that does indeed sound very sensible. I do suspect the more I look at things the more issue there will be with the distance between the back of the MX5 engine and the back of the MX5 gearbox in relation to the Polo proportions. I am much more wanting to go the sleeper route, I want it to look as much like a mildly customised but standard Polo as I can, the RWD bit is something that I want as a sneaky little surprise. Besides, I'm not too fond of wide arches unless the car is an all out performance monster, which this won't be. As for Polo rot, they tend to on the rear arches, the battery tray, then the driver's floor pan, the back end of the sills and, strangely, the middle of the passenger footwell. Other than that they just don't seem to rot much at all in general. Mind you, people do tend to give up on them when mechanical stuff goes or they get bored so I might be able to snap one up cheaply when the time comes. composimmonite: That is a concern. I don't particularly want to lose my back seat and certainly don't want to be driving from the back seat. There is the fall-back of the rear-mounted bike engine, that might be easier from a proportion point of view and I have been thinking about how I might be able to make that work without compromising the appearance, passenger and load carrying capability of the car too badly. Rear engined bike mod which was linked above could be a sensible route, possibly more sensible for what I want than the MX5 option. - Would keep the suspension and most of the mechanical components of the Polo - Boot area would be converted into an insulated and soundproofed engine bay, but kept looking like a normal Polo rear interior with seat and parcel shelf intact. - Under the bonnet could be boxed out, spare wheel put in the bottom, in part to put a bit of weight up there, but also to regain the lost space in the boot. - Potentially less work to fit this way, but I don't know how one would connect the bike engine to the rear axle or how you would properly and safely isolate the engine from the cabin. - I don't know how to go about connecting the dashboard and other electronics correctly in this set up either. - I don't know what sort of cooling set up would be required, rear mounted radiator, front mounted radiator or even air cooled with vents put into the bodywork somewhere? Edited to add: If I put a rear engine in, could using Beetle components work? I suspect not and I suspect I'd end up with something quite underpowered.
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Last Edit: Feb 5, 2011 11:52:53 GMT by Deleted
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if your concerend about keeping the inside practical you could go for Vitara chassis, it should be about the right length and they came with a 125bhp V6 in some of the Grand Vitara versions, parts are available to lower them or jack them up theres a large selection of "fatboy" style wheels to fit them as well. I'm trying to think of ways to keep things simple and the best way to do that is to use as much of one car as possible. I know its only a model in this pic but they have a proper seperate whcich would mean no BIVA and keeping the Vitaras Reg.
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Volvo back as my main squeeze, more boost and some interior goodies on the way.
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Vitara sound like good idea. Independant front suspension and it'd be possible to remove front driveshafts / diff / prop so just RWD. Is the transfer box on a Vitara a seperate item like a SJ ? Otherwise maybe another, just rwd, gearbox could be used.
Paul H
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you could leave the transfer case on anyway as they are only part time 4x4, leave the trans in 2wd and take the front prop/diff and driveshafts off.
or actually leave it all on, fit airbags and run low and 2wd in summer, and jacked up in 4x4 in the winter snow. ;D
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Volvo back as my main squeeze, more boost and some interior goodies on the way.
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