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May 18, 2006 12:43:35 GMT
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Heaven forbid I should say I`d rather have a RETRO Mini than a BMW MINI on a retro car forum Besides, there`s evolving a design and then changing pretty much everything about it apart from some bonnet stripes and a badge. I don`t like the BMW MINI, never have never will. My opinion and it will never change, call it bigotted, blinkered whatever.
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LowStandards
Club Retro Rides Member
Bigging Up The Sum Sum Man Since '99
Posts: 2,682
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May 18, 2006 12:55:55 GMT
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It does look sh*t don't it...
That my constructive critism over
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May 18, 2006 13:30:12 GMT
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Cosmetiacally theres a few things i don't like about the new en, specially the 2 part split grille, the bonnet and wing combo is good though.
Theres nothing wrong with liking the old Mini, specially on a retro car forum!
Damn I love the old mini, never had the balls/opportunity/space to get one but they rule so basic so plyable, justa bundle of small fun. would love one to tweak about with...
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it doesn't matter if it's a Morris Marina or a Toyota Celica - it's what you do with it that counts
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May 18, 2006 13:33:42 GMT
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...(sorry bout that)...
But the (BMW) MINI Cooper is a fun small (but not small enough) fun modern car you can use and have fun every day and its practical too. If they didn't hold their money so well they'd make a perfect daily!
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it doesn't matter if it's a Morris Marina or a Toyota Celica - it's what you do with it that counts
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May 18, 2006 15:34:55 GMT
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Grahamini, I think you misunderstand me. I like the old Minis. Everone can like what they like. Thats the point. A lot of Mini enthusaists (and I'm not necessarily including you in this but you can include yourself if that suits you) wildly villify the new Mini and anyone who says they like them. So its not so much someone not being allowed to prefer the traditional Mini but not being allowed to like the new one.
To be fair I've just had this arguement with some real rock-throwers just yesterday elsewhere (apparently I must be a Nazi or a homosexual if I like the new Mini, etc. etc.) and I appologise if I brought this frustration to bear on this thread.
You would admit that booing and cat-calling was an inappropriate way for enthusiasts to behave towards other vehicle owners? I've seen Golfs and the like booed at the pod by hot rodders before as well. Again, not acceptable behaviour really.
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1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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May 18, 2006 15:39:05 GMT
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No its not, we can have this discussion held here in a mature and intelligent way which is great.
Rather than make snide disrespectful 'jokes' like some cliques do.
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it doesn't matter if it's a Morris Marina or a Toyota Celica - it's what you do with it that counts
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dp
Posted a lot
DP Race Tech
Posts: 1,044
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May 18, 2006 15:50:44 GMT
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alistairk in da house: (apparently I must be a Nazi or a homosexual if I like the new Mini, etc. etc.)
That's a real good one, did not know that there were a New Mini vesus Old (original) Mini feud going on so I guess I must be double that because IMHO the Old Mini is as bad as the New Mini, can't really find anything I like with eiter of them but that's only my personal view....
DP says: There's alot of modern cars I don't like and not that many I really like....
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May 18, 2006 16:55:44 GMT
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Something to consider is would the MINI design have been as successful, or more so, if it was badged as a BMW and without the classic mini styling? Something else is Rover's own ideas on a mini replacement. Link ---> www.austin-rover.co.uk/r50storyf.htmConceptually the rover idea seems to me more in keeping conceptually with the original mini, ie a budget competent car.
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May 18, 2006 17:58:51 GMT
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Interesting stuff, i don't think it would work as well if it was BMW branded, labeled whatever, no. Interesting story and i've only seen the pics so far! package deal? yes please
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it doesn't matter if it's a Morris Marina or a Toyota Celica - it's what you do with it that counts
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May 18, 2006 18:03:08 GMT
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a bit OT, but I'm not so sure it wouldnt have worked, take the same car but without the classic cue's and add the BMW inhouse family styling and you get a competent car that is far more affordable than most new bimmers, throw in the snob factor and I think you could have a winner.
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May 18, 2006 18:03:18 GMT
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Something to consider is would the MINI design have been as successful, or more so, if it was badged as a BMW and without the classic mini styling? Something else is Rover's own ideas on a mini replacement. Link ---> www.austin-rover.co.uk/r50storyf.htmConceptually the rover idea seems to me more in keeping conceptually with the original mini, ie a budget competent car. with ideas like that its no wonder rover when down the tubes that is horrid ;D ;D ;D
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MWF
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,945
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May 18, 2006 18:38:30 GMT
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I'm not a big BMW fan but I think they really showed the world how to build a small characteristic car with the MINI.
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May 18, 2006 18:51:46 GMT
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I was sceptical when it came out. Not radiacal enough, not true enough to original concept, not enough "real" character, etc. I swore they'd sell about 20 of them. Pah, shows how much I know about marketting.
Thing is small economy cars make no money for the manufacturers. A mate works for a big Japanese company and apparently it costs like £20 less to make their entry level hatch super-mini than it does their mid size family/rep saloon (assuming they have the same trim & equipment spec) which sells for twice the price...
Go figure where the real money is...
BMC never made a penny on the Mini, BL never made a penny on it either. Ford reverse engineered one in like 1968 to see how BMC could sell the Mini at the price they did and make a profit and concluded it was impossible. I've heard rumours that Rover didn't break even on the car until like 1990 or something.
But Vauxhall can beat that. Vauxhall lost money on every single Victor, Viva, Firenza, Viscount sold from like 1960 to 1978. The first profitable cars they made since the 1950s were the "V-car" range of rebadged Opels.
final point - I absolutely love the Mini and I rather like the MINI. With the original Mini its various faults are part of the experiance of owning one and you accept it as part of the package. Its whatyou might call a "flawed masterpiece". Inspirational design, variously lacklustre manufacture.
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Last Edit: May 18, 2006 18:54:11 GMT by akku
1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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Ed
Part of things
Posts: 600
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May 18, 2006 18:53:35 GMT
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i was at the launch for the american market in soho when the mini was about to break into the us market. the guy that designed it was giving a 2 to 3 hour talk to the dealers. it was really really interesting to hear his ideas and justifications and taking forward the classic styling of the old mini and making it 21st century. ive never heard a designer talk before and he had a mini on a plinth and was describing each bit in turn
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bryn
Posted a lot
Posts: 3,913
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May 18, 2006 23:58:17 GMT
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In short I think the MINI is far more in tune with the contemporary marketplace, and for this reason it's a winner. Obviously, if you launched the original today it wouldn't pass the most basic of crash tests, the world has advanced. Just as people want to buy a Bush radio, but with digital internals, they just wouldn't buy the original Mini 'ethos' these days.
When I first saw the MINI at the motorshow when they launched it I really disliked it, I didn't like the way it looked, the interior or the reasoning behind it. I just saw it as a money making exercise.
But then I woke up to the fact that's what manufacturers do, they try and make as much money as possible, and to a certain extent they'll do anything to achieve that. They have to, so if a brand like MINI presents itself, why not use it?
Then I did a few cross continent road trips in MINI for a series of articles, we used One's, Diesel's, Coopers and Cabrios I also drove highly modified examples too. And you know what? I like them now...
They've got curse word all rear leg room if there's two average size adults in the front, and the moulding seam in the door grab is annoying, (it's the simple things)
But just as in the 60s and on, when the original appealed to a wide and varied demographic group, so does this one. And it does it without aping any of the originals principles. As in it's relatively expensive, it's certainly not small, it's not cheap to run etc.
All except one, and that one thing it does do well, is drive. I've had some big grins in them, usually fully loaded. When we did LA to Daytona Beach in under a week plus three days solid work on the way, it was with ease, do that in an old Mini? Never.
I've owned Mini's and I like them, but they have there place. I lost two friends in a Mini because it was years out of date when matched with a speeding 4x4 at some traffic lights. i'd like to think that doesn't bias my view point, but nobody can say they're an overly safe car in standard form.
If by using a name from the past it brings a sense of belonging to the masses, in todays lost culture where large swathes of our populus are clammering for attention, then I support it, it might not be an identity tag that we like. But it is one, and therefore is justified.
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Volvo, Buggy, Discovery and an old tractor.
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Grahamini, I think you misunderstand me. I like the old Minis. Everone can like what they like. Thats the point. A lot of Mini enthusaists (and I'm not necessarily including you in this but you can include yourself if that suits you) wildly villify the new Mini and anyone who says they like them. So its not so much someone not being allowed to prefer the traditional Mini but not being allowed to like the new one. To be fair I've just had this arguement with some real rock-throwers just yesterday elsewhere (apparently I must be a Nazi or a homosexual if I like the new Mini, etc. etc.) and I appologise if I brought this frustration to bear on this thread. You would admit that booing and cat-calling was an inappropriate way for enthusiasts to behave towards other vehicle owners? I've seen Golfs and the like booed at the pod by hot rodders before as well. Again, not acceptable behaviour really. I`m not against anyone liking the BMW Mini, it`s a free world after all, it`s just my opinion that I don`t like it. I wouldn`t go so far as to boo and cat call their owners at shows but I have indulged in some good natured banter with a few people I know that own them - they can give as good as good as they get believe me throwing such things as reliability, safety, speed, comfort at me - I just find a tight corner and leave them behind ;D Anyhow, Mini`s are a sore point - mine`s still off the road nearly 3 weeks after someone backed into it as the stock of genuine bonnets appears to have dried up
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We had problems with getting a few bits for one of ours when it was rear ended at a junction. It was done by a Rover main agent (condition of the damn insurance) and they kept saying how they couldn't get parts for it. I had to act as a go between with them and Minispares to get the stuff.... That was a couple of years ago (obviously, as theres no Rover dealers any more!)
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1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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oh boy has this topic gotten heated up!!!
i think most of this argument MINI vs Mini is based on peoples opinions. some people like it, some don't. so what.
but at the end of the day, my opinion is this. the MINI as a car is good. forget that its a BMW or that its labelled as something it isn't. it is a good car in my opinion. the problem is, as a MINI, it sucks. cos it just isn't one. its not small, its not cheap. its not simple and it certainly isn't a break through in design like the original was. yet these are the things that made the original so popular, along with the handling. cos in those days things were different. people didn't really care about air-bags and air-con and bloody emmisions ffs! so what it boils down to is this: if you buy a new MINI because you think its a mini and its cool and retro, then you're an idiot. if you buy one just because you like the car for what it is, then fair play. unfortunately i beleive the majority of owners are the former, which is why it has a bad image in my view. i think if BMW had labelled it as something else, i might have more respect for it.
as far as 'progress' is concerned, i think the whole concept of a small light car mass produced at very little cost has been made near impossible by the nanny state we live in. the old mini unfortunately has no place on todays roads where rich mother of 3 can drive along in her chelsea tractor, oblivious to the world outside her air-conditioned cacoon. there is no evolutionary path to take for a car which relies on seems in the bodywork for structure!
i'm not a huge mini fan, new or old. but i prefer the original because its just that: original.
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Last Edit: May 22, 2006 2:48:46 GMT by stiglet
1986 Audi Coupe quattro
you need only two things in life: WD40 and duck tape. if it moves and it shouldn't use the duck tape, if it doesn't move but should then use the WD40. Genius!
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I think the MINI is notching up my list, really wish i'd seen the stunt show at motorshow, queues were massive!
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it doesn't matter if it's a Morris Marina or a Toyota Celica - it's what you do with it that counts
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