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Looking for a bit of help / advice........ My 1980 TR7 and my 1970 Mini Clubman are both about to return to the road full time after a number of years being laid up and unused. Mechanically they are all good to go - my only concern now is about fuel. Obviously both were designed to run on good old 4 star petrol, which obviously you can't buy now. Should I be using a fuel additive with unleaded petrol? If so, which one do you guys use and how do you find it? Thanks! ![](http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a133/kerrywh2001/TR7240710009.jpg) ![](http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a133/kerrywh2001/Kerrys%20vehicles/CyriltheMiniEstate027.jpg)
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Currently driving a Renault Wind Gordini as my daily. Don't ask about previous cars - there have been way too many and I stopped counting at 160!
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From how I see it, some cars will run forever (or many many thousands of miles) without an additive. Most will run for thousands of miles, and when the valves do finally recede you can just sling a cheap, already converted head on the mini in a lazy morning.
Unsure about the TR7, but in any case the valve seat recession would be cured by getting hardened seats fitted. And it'll probably have cost less than the additives would have by the time it does need it.
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Last Edit: Jan 5, 2011 16:17:48 GMT by cobblers
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I put this question to the RR massive a while back, and the concensus seemed to be "don't worry about it". That was for running my Triumph-engined Bond. Having said that, some people with more first-hand knowledge of those cars and running them on U/L will be along to advise I'm sure. ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png)
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joda
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i haven't used the stuff any any of my cars / bikes since it disappeared off the forecourt, nor have i used any of the additive's and everything is running fine
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I used to run my Avenger on Unleaded, and my Maestro, and my Mazda 929 without any issues!
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From what i've read, valve seats have a "lead memory" and will be fine for quite a while or until this is worn through, the length of time that this takes is obviously dependant on the amount of miles covered and how the car is driven. I've used all my older cars and bikes without addatives and hav'nt been gentle with them and have not noticed any detrimental effects. keep an eye on the valve clearances though, if they start closing up either start using addatives or get the hardened valve seats fitted ( if the TR doesn't already have them" The A series isn't too dear but can be fitted from a later car as a straight swap.
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I have run both my Dolly sprint (1980) and TR7 (1980) on normal unleaded (95 RON) and Super Unleaded (97 RON) and they ran fine on both, and slightly better on the super. Tesco 99 RON made no difference.
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MonzaPhil
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Never bothered with it, I reckon if I were racing something I might but for normal use you'd have to do an awful lot of miles to have trouble.
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This is now a clicky linky! ![](http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w122/ThE_sNiPeRs_PiCs/Sig%20Pics/P250211_0856-1-1-1.gif)
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I think "lead memory" is a myth. People invent odd theories to cover what happens with all manner of stuff and I think this is the same. What happens in reality is that in service the valves bang in and out of the seat like little hammers and over the years and decades they work harden, like a DIY forging job. So after 25 years and 80,000 miles your valves have hardened seats...
Now if you go and recut the valve seats in your heads you lose that hardening. You will remember that Practical Classics B series they ran on unleaded (to test a fuel catalyst) and it recessed the seats in like 4000 miles? That engine had fresh cut seats & lapped valves... I bet in an old smoker that would have run fine for years.
The way I look at it is this. Last time I was quoted hardened valve seat inserts they were £12 +VAT per valve on pre-stripped heads. Last time I looked a bottle of fuel additive was like about £14.95 for one with FBHVC logo on it and all. In a regular 4 pot motor like a TR7 or Mini that's 4 bottles of additive makes the cost of getting the valves done.
So if you run the car with no additive and after a few thousand miles you need to get the valves done you probably lost nothing.
If you run the car for years with no problem you saved a fortune.
If you have the heads off and are recutting the valves then that's a good time to get the hardened inserts done.
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1937 Austin Street Rod - 1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1976 Rover V8 - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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From what I've read on the MMOC website, you can run the Mini on unleaded OK if you increase the exhaust valve clearance to 15 thou, and keep a regular check on things. The TR7 IIRC should be OK as is on unleaded, I know the slant 4 Dollys are.
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1953 Minor (Long term project) PT Cruiser
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I think "lead memory" is a myth. People invent odd theories to cover what happens with all manner of stuff and I think this is the same. What happens in reality is that in service the valves bang in and out of the seat like little hammers and over the years and decades they work harden, like a DIY forging job. So after 25 years and 80,000 miles your valves have hardened seats... Now if you go and recut the valve seats in your heads you lose that hardening. You will remember that Practical Classics B series they ran on unleaded (to test a fuel catalyst) and it recessed the seats in like 4000 miles? That engine had fresh cut seats & lapped valves... I bet in an old smoker that would have run fine for years. That is the best answer for why 4 star only engines run fine on unleaded I have heard, have always thought that the idea of "lead memory" was a bit hard to believe, I mean how much tetra ethyl lead (or what ever lead compound it is) can stick to the valves?
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thanks for the advice and info - think I'll just drive 'em and see ;D
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Currently driving a Renault Wind Gordini as my daily. Don't ask about previous cars - there have been way too many and I stopped counting at 160!
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For peace of mind and having seen the valve seat recession on my Triumphs head I use an additive. Redex lead replacement additive is 96p a bottle in Tesco petrol stations.
If your car has an alloy head and I think TR7s may then by nature it has hardened valves and seats so doesn't need lead. Dolomites if they have slants for instance and my DAF fall into this category
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If you can get it for 96p a bottle that's actually cheaper than the petrol it displaces in your tank!
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1937 Austin Street Rod - 1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1976 Rover V8 - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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TR7 should be fine - it was designed with the American market in mind when they started getting all environmental.
Mini WILL suffer valve recession - the FBHVC used A series engines to conduct tests to find the best additives - think you can find the details on their website.
However, if you're not thrashing it down motorways, or you're not clocking up many miles, I wouldn't bother. Our Mini has clocked up 30,000 on neat unleaded with no issues - the worst that can happen is that the valve seats suffer and eventually, we need a replacement head (and then opt for one that's unleaded compatible).
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1986 Citroen 2CV Dolly Other things. Check out my Blog for the latest! www.hubnut.org
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ChasR
RR Helper
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I would agree on that, although many BL cars were specced differently when you compared the Domestic cars to the US items. FWIW, I ran my old Beetle on 4 star initially for a tank or 2 (I have a pump down the road from me - I dread to think how much they charge now) but the car ran fine on Unleaded with the timing retarded slightly. I reckon it would have ran better without the 009 Dizzy but the car is now gone etc. The MGBs were a bit strange. The white car I had with 53,000 miles on it ran fine on unleaded as does my current Sebring (albeit it is on an unleaded head on a 10,000 mile Ivor Searle Engine). Whilst both ran ok on unleaded, both suffered from dieseling quite a bit (I remember the brown car actually fully firing on 4 briefly once!). Maybe it was use etc. but putting both onto V-Power and restoring the timing to the factory values seem to near enough cease the dieseling and aid smooth running (but that could have been down to use or the power of suggestion) ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png) . If it were me, I would go with Al's suggestion. Forget about the additives and wait for the car to start 'coughing' and for the valve clearances to change significantly from what they normally go to.
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Last Edit: Jan 10, 2011 7:29:45 GMT by ChasR
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andyf
South West
Posts: 415
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Jan 10, 2011 10:04:20 GMT
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Yep, the TR7 already has hardened valve seats, no problem with running it on standard unleaded.
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1980 Triumph TR7.
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Jan 10, 2011 10:18:48 GMT
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I've always run my 1850 on unleaded, the 7 should be fine. However, mine does have on of those inline fuel things after the fuel pump (there when I bought it, first thing I took off). Took it out and ran it with a straight piece of fuel hose and it ran like a bag of spanners. Put it back and it was perfect... It may be a con, but currently, it won't run without it. I'll sort it out eventually.
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arh
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Jan 10, 2011 10:43:59 GMT
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My experience with a series engines suggests they are very prone to valve seat recession. I would not use addative, but I would find a good spare head and make sure it is ready to fit when needed. That way when they do wear you have a mornings work sorting it out. Unleaded heads for a series stuf are easy to find or modify. As for other stuff most seem to survive well, I have run triumph staraight 6's without issues and jag engines as well.
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Jan 10, 2011 18:05:40 GMT
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45 thousand miles ina 1275 A series in the last two years, standard head, no additives, no problems. don't worry about it ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png)
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