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Dec 24, 2010 14:06:02 GMT
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really? You are happy to pay more for everything, and I mean everything from sugar to petrol, just to drive a car that should by rights be tax exempt? Sorry but I don't think I will be.... I'd be happy knowing that people doing 30,000 miles a year will be paying a tax amount that reflects this. And that no-one anywhere is dodging their road tax. And there's no reason why any car should be,by rights tax exempt is there? The roads they drive on all have to be maintained don't they? Yeah,i'd take the hit.....it's the only fair way. Use more fuel,pay more tax.
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Dec 24, 2010 22:09:45 GMT
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I meant cars that are currently tax exempt, and putting MORE duty of fuel will just cane the haulage industry. Not everybody is pottering about to the shops, some of us are running a business.A business that relies on burning diesel. It's the people who say 'put the road tax on the fuel' that do 30,000 miles a year, not a week!
It's that kind of thinking (oh I only do a few hundred miles a week, why will it affect me) that will get in the laws we are complaining about in this thread.......
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If they really wanted to operate a mileage based road tax system it would have been introduced by now. Some kind of rebate system for hauliers could also have been figured out by now I'm sure. 'Road tax' is not about using the roads cos they spend nothing on them anyway.... it's just about taxing you for owning one. Motoring is still too cheap for most politicians who seem to think the rest of us should use public transport whilst they cruise around in their limo's. Price the peasants off the road is the policy and solve traffic congestion problem at the same time.
Retro enthusiasts must get right up their noses cos not only do we refuse to pay the industry inflated price of driving a modern disposable car..... we also take advantage of what was meant to be a tax break for the rich who wanted to drive their 'classic' Bentley to the local pub on a Sunday afternoon. Is obvious to me that they were so out of touch when they brought the 'historic vehicle' law in..... the thought that so many enthusiasts would want to drive an old car rather than a POS just hadn't crossed their mind. T*ssers!! ;D .... and we allow these people to run the country! Frightening!!
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Last Edit: Dec 25, 2010 8:45:09 GMT by arrocuda
'71 Arrocuda.... '71 Sunbeam Rapier Turbo (The Grim Rapier).... '63 Hymek D7076..... Audi GT5S
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Dec 25, 2010 20:25:11 GMT
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Found this info on Historic Status in other countries. We've also found some flaws in the FIVA document which we will add to the letter going on the ACE website.
"Belgium: 25 years. Not to be used as your everyday transport, traveling abroad is only allowed to meetings and oldtimer events. No road tax, cheap insurance. France: 25 years. You must stay in your department and those next to it. Not to be used as your everyday transport, traveling abroad is only allowed to meetings and oldtimer events. Huge discounts apply for insurance. »Contrôle technique «is a lot easier. UK: 33 years. No restrictions, no road tax. US: 25 years, often the only way to import a Land Rover. Germany: 30 years, very cheap road tax, simplified technical control but your vehicle must be »original«. You must own another vehicle which is fully taxed Netherlands: 25 years. after 1st REGISTRATION. Oh socks. Details to be added later. Italy: seems to be a major headache, like you have to be a member of a classical car club. Spain: a vehicle is considered as historical 25 years after the offcial date of manufacture. It must preserve the original looks and parts. There is no restriction and no road tax. Technical controls are every to years till the age 0f 35 years, then every 5 years. It is highly recommended to join a classic car club. (I was told the expertizing needed can take up to 9 months) "
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Dec 25, 2010 20:31:44 GMT
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Last Edit: Dec 25, 2010 20:32:11 GMT by kapri
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Dec 26, 2010 15:59:12 GMT
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CO2 based taxation is easy, the emissions levels are reported by the manufacturers on registration, and these figures never change, so half of the work is already done. The government set the rate and put it up when they feel like it, again using the figure supplied on registration. Historical taxation is just as easy, it's most commonly down to when the vehicle was first registered, again that figure is available on the DVLA's records. The real variable (if it comes off) would be the mileage restriction. As the MOT mileage is recorded after the fact, it would be down to the DVLA to fine the reg'd keeper if the vehicle goes over the allotted mileage, so that's not realistic either. BTW where does the 33 year figure come from for the UK? Tax exempt vehicles are are their youngest 37, and it's not rolling.
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Dec 26, 2010 18:12:54 GMT
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Found this info on Historic Status in other countries. We've also found some flaws in the FIVA document which we will add to the letter going on the ACE website. France: 25 years. You must stay in your department and those next to it. Not to be used as your everyday transport, traveling abroad is only allowed to meetings and oldtimer events. Huge discounts apply for insurance. »Contrôle technique «is a lot easier. I mentioned earlier, but the laws here in France have recently changed in favour of old cars. Whilst the definition of a historic vehicle is now dated to 30 years instead of the previous 25 years, usage limits have been abolished. The car can be driven any distance and as often as the owner wishes. It can be the owners only everyday transport if they wish. The large insurance discount is subject to the car being secondary to a modern vehicle, but this is not obligatory. The control technique test is the same as for any other car, although like UK MOT`s there are easier emissions limits for older cars. (my 76 bus was not tested at all for emissions and it smokes like a steam train going up a hill). CT is every 5 years as opposed to every 2 years like modern cars. "retro" cars which are not 30 years old, but are suitably rare can be insured as a classic car, but this is subject to the insurer's policies and not any kind of law. My mini van did not have a "carte gris collection" but I had it insured for under €80 as it was a second car and a very rare model here. www.ffve.org is one of the bodies acting on behalf of old car owners.
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1986 Panda 4x4. 1990 Metro Sport. 1999 Ford Escort estate.
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Dec 26, 2010 18:15:59 GMT
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BTW where does the 33 year figure come from for the UK? Tax exempt vehicles are are their youngest 37, and it's not rolling. Probably from when the document was originally drafted..... I've already had a couple of "That won't affect me' and "That'll never happen here" to which I replied both barrels.....
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Last Edit: Dec 26, 2010 18:17:19 GMT by marinanut
Rover Metro - The TARDIS - brake problems.....Stored Rover 75 - Barge MGZTT Cdti 160+ - Winter Hack and Audi botherer... MGF - The Golden Shot...Stored Project Minion........ Can you see the theme?
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Dec 26, 2010 22:14:10 GMT
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So OK, I am ready for both barrels. How do you think this will be policed? As France already has no restriction, it does look like not all, if any, of the proposals, should they become law, will be only advisory not obligatory. Which TBH I could see the UK Govt taking up precisely none of it, given they will be opening the flood gates to a LOT of early 80s cars being legible for free tax. Oh, and if it does come in, I will be seriously affected, given both my businesses involve vehicles currently at least 25 years old. As we supply 70s and 80s vehicles for film work, it's not like we can scrap the lot and rock up to set in a new Sprinter is it? That having said, I genuinely believe it's not likely to, given how much road tax the govt will miss out on.....
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Dec 26, 2010 23:58:53 GMT
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seems that the french & other europeans as usual do what they like, while we do what we're told !!
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theres more to life than mpg & to much power is just enough.
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Tis true, but seen as we don't have rolling exemption any more and the rest of the EU does, I would still say our Govt will do what suits them...... Unless of course there's some fines in the off, in which case we the classic owners will be scapegoats, much the same as older commercial owners with the LEZ.
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I must say, the 'have to have another vehicle taxed' seems quite fair . You can't drive two cars at once, so you are paying your road tax on your daily, and take your classic out whenever you like because the daily is sat there paying the tax. I expect most owners of 30+ year old cars also have a newer one.
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75 Range Rover 2 door 82 Range Rover 4 door 84 Range Rover 4 door 78 Datsun 120Y 2 door 78 Datsun 620 Pickup 81 Datsun Urvan E23 86 Datsun Vanette van 98 Electric Citroen Berlingo 00 Electric Peugeot Partner 02 Electric Citroen Berlingo 04 Berlingo Multispace petrol 07 Land Rover 130 15 Nissan E-NV200 15 Fiat Ducato
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The question 'you' must ask yourself if you believe any of this isn't going to happen ,and that it will be impossible to police/ it will cost the Government too much money etc etc, is are 'YOU' prepared to take a risk and get it wrong as opposed to trying to stop what MAY be the lynch pin of future legislation coming into being ?
How many believed that smoking would never be legislated because the Government make too much money from it ?
How many believed that because of the moneyd people involved in hunting that they would manage to prevent a ban coming into being ?
How many belived that CO2 based taxation on post 2001 registered vehicles would never affect them ? Don't forget in 10 years ( if they make it due to built in expensive obsolescence!) they will be the basis of most modifying scenes.
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the whole tax exempt thing never felt like a great idea to me when they introduced it. how is it fair that an old car that was in daily use was paying no road tax and yet a newer car that is owned and driven by an older driver who only did 1000 miles or so a year, going to the shops or what have you, had to pay full road tax? if your going to get away with paying no road tax, then expect to get hit with limited mileage. oh and all my cars are over 30 years old. i own an old car because thats what i like, not because they're tax exempt. and i'm happy to pay my share of car tax along with everyone else. i just have the benefit of driving a cool car whilst i'm doing so
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Dec 27, 2010 11:13:20 GMT
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if said older driver chooses wisely for his 1000 miles a year he/she wont pay much, if anything for road fund licence these days anyway
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Dec 27, 2010 14:08:05 GMT
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The question 'you' must ask yourself if you believe any of this isn't going to happen ,and that it will be impossible to police/ it will cost the Government too much money etc etc, is are 'YOU' prepared to take a risk and get it wrong as opposed to trying to stop what MAY be the lynch pin of future legislation coming into being ? How many believed that smoking would never be legislated because the Government make too much money from it ? How many believed that because of the moneyd people involved in hunting that they would manage to prevent a ban coming into being ? How many belived that CO2 based taxation on post 2001 registered vehicles would never affect them ? Don't forget in 10 years ( if they make it due to built in expensive obsolescence!) they will be the basis of most modifying scenes. Well, you can still buy fags and choose when you smoke, unless it's in a public enclosed space. Sorry but hunting still goes on. I would like to see somebody who has been arrested, let alone charge. As for post 2001 vehicles, I genuinely believe that there will be a two tier desirability on old cars. Tax exempt and PLG. That's assuming the changes in this thread never happen.
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Dec 29, 2010 11:03:39 GMT
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Dec 29, 2010 13:37:38 GMT
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the whole tax exempt thing never felt like a great idea to me when they introduced it. how is it fair that an old car that was in daily use was paying no road tax and yet a newer car that is owned and driven by an older driver who only did 1000 miles or so a year, going to the shops or what have you, had to pay full road tax? if your going to get away with paying no road tax, then expect to get hit with limited mileage. oh and all my cars are over 30 years old. I own an old car because thats what I like, not because they're tax exempt. and i'm happy to pay my share of car tax along with everyone else. I just have the benefit of driving a cool car whilst i'm doing so The thing is, free historical tax has been in for many years, and the only change to it was the cut off year being introduced. This suggests to me that it would be difficult to introduce anything more complicated (the reg'd year is easily found on the DVLA records) is not cost effective. Which in turn (and you can say what you like about me burying my head in the sand) suggests the Govt can't afford to do anything more with the tax class. After all, it's not like they miss a chance to make money is it? Or rather, give something away for nothing. Which is what caused the introduction of the cut off year, obviously. I don't think they will do anything about restricting the historical tax class, because it will cost more money to implement than it will save (or prevent loosing) by making more vehicles legible. I would welcome the re introduction of rolling exemption, even if it starts at 30 years. Again though, I don't think it will happen, for the same fiscal reasons. Rolling exemption is the norm in the EU, all be it with varying levels of restriction. Yet we have it capped off at 1972, so if the Govt has managed to get away with being out of step on this up to now, I would say it's more than likely they will stay that way for as long as they can. I think they will only change if Brussels threatened the UK with big fines
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I fired off a couple of emails, got one reply so far, but not exactly as helpful as I wanted.
Make of that what you will, but I'm guessing being a Bentley Drivers Club member, he thinks this doesn't apply to him and therefore not worth worrying about. I hope I am wrong though.
(Used the redrafted letter in this thread as a template for the email.)
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There is no such thing as a curse word car just overstretched expectations................. Herald 10/10 Gasser 10/10 Total score 20/10
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That MP sounds like he needs a hefty kick in the nads. I read that reply and had a mental image of him sitting in the library of a country manner wearing a smoking jacket, with a big cigar and glass of whisky in his hand, chucking at what us proles have put up with, before he summons the chauffer to fetch the Bentley for a run to the local pub for lunch.
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1986 Panda 4x4. 1990 Metro Sport. 1999 Ford Escort estate.
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