Nick
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,483
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Apr 26, 2006 12:13:50 GMT
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RIght, the dvla just kindly sent me a notice for £160. for a sierra of mine being caught untaxed on the M58 (know where near me)...
now i need to know where i stand, i'll give you the facts first.. i sold the car to my mate who was the one who got caught driving it... but i couldnt find the V5 at the time..so i let him take it without actually transfering ownership..couple of months past and i completely forgot about it. then he told me he got busted, and the car was impounded..he has now scrapped the car. i thought it was all ok. but now the DVLA want me to pay for driving untaxed car.. now this i understand as it is obviuously illegal to drive a car untaxed. but want i want to know is where i stand.
i think my friend will pay up as he is a good guy pretty much who i have helped out a lot .. if not i have a load of his stuff still at mine to sell off to raise funds.. but.. i hope it wouldnt even come to that.
now what should i do. write to the dvla and inform them i sold the car without a v5 (is that not illegal and could i land in more trouble?) ...or should i just get my friend to wire me the money and i pay the fine.. or is that a bad idea and an admission of total fault which could later come back to help me.
please give me some advice.. i know ive been stupid selling a car without transfering ownership.. so no need to tell me I'm a prat because i know.. i just want to know what the best way forward is..
thanks guys from a very depressed/embarassed/stupid ..nick
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idea stolen from rattely eddie.
this weeks car count "5"
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Apr 26, 2006 12:18:23 GMT
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Speak to your mate first! If he is OK to pay the fine, you can write out an 'old' reciept from the sale with his name and address on, both sign it, send a copy off to the DVLA explaining the situation and they can approach him.
It will only be a problem if he then refuses to pay up, you'll both look like proper cocks then.
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1972 Fiat 130 1985 Talbot Alpine 1974 Lancia Beta Saloon 1975 + 1986 Mazda 929 Koop + Wagon 1982 Fiat Argenta 2.0 iniezione elettronica 1977 Toyota Carina TA14 BEST CAR EVER!!!!!!!! 1979 Datsun B310 Sunny 4-dr 1984 Audi 200 Quattro Turbo 1983 Honda Accord 1.6 DX GONE1989 Alfa 75 2.0 TS Mr T says: TREAT YO MOTHER RIGHT!
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Apr 26, 2006 12:19:23 GMT
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I'd just get him to stump the money and pay it in that situation, then inform them of the cars demise.
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The lurker formerly known as Cappuccinocruiser.. or wedgedout..
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Apr 26, 2006 12:20:11 GMT
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I got caught in similar circumstances relating to SORN, ie had sold car without completing V5. I wrote and told them this, and offence was changed to non-notification instead.
In my case I was worse off as fine for this was higher than SORN at the time (£40 vs £25 IIRC), but in your case perhaps politely writing and asking for non-notification is the better option? However this may also land your mate in trouble?
I am always ultra-careful nowadays about this sort of thing.
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Legal questionBenzBoy
@benzboy
Club Retro Rides Member 7
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Apr 26, 2006 12:20:15 GMT
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We all do daft things from time to time mate As far as I know, the DVLA will always trace the car in question back to the person who is on their records as owning it. They did a big campaign a while back saying that if you don't send the documents to them after you sell your car, you're still legally responsible for it If it were me, I'd look into whether it goes on any records or not (like points on your license, information available to insurers, that kind of thing), and if there's just the case of the fine to pay, get your mate to stump up the readies and pay it. If it affects any of your records in any way (like something that will increase your premium), I'd try and pursue the matter further, but I'm not sure how much luck you'd have with it. This is just what I think is the case - I could well be talking through my hat
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Apr 26, 2006 15:06:25 GMT
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You mean that the DVLA lost the V5C you sent them?
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1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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Apr 26, 2006 15:13:37 GMT
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Everything depends on your friend. Is he prepared to admit liability? Ultimately HE was driving the car illegally NOT you!!! The fact that no V5 was handed over isnt really relevant. There are plenty of cars sold without a V5 present, the new owner goes to the Post Office, gets an aplication form and sends it off, simple as that. The car was purchased by your friend fully aware that there was no V5 and he was also fully aware that the car wasnt taxed. Sorry, he doesnt sound like a great mate to me, there should be NO question of liability! Ensure that you make out a reciept, backdated, for the sale of your car to your friend and he signs it. You can then pass a copy on to the DVLA explaining that you were not the owner of the vehicle at the time the offence was committted. You can also explain that your friend DID fill out a V5 and sent it on to them. This is a situation that your friend MUST, if he is a friend, take on the chin. If he doesnt want to play ball then send a nice letter to the DVLA and tell them the name and address of the new keeper and let them do the rest. Not your fault mate, don't cop a fine for something you didnt do!!
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If Typhoo put the Tea in Britain who put the c**t in Scunthorpe?
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Apr 26, 2006 15:23:00 GMT
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Sorry, thats not right. There is a fine for "failure to notify" the DVLA of a change of keepers details. If you don't have the V5C you send them a letter. Last time I checked was years ago and the fine was "up to £1500". The onus is on the vendor as the vehicle remains your legal liability until the point you write to the DVLA to tell them it is no longer in your possession.
I was nearly done for it a years back when I sold a car when they came to pick it up I was out so my parents just gave the buyer the V5 intact. Guess what, I got their parkeing tickets and all sorts. So when I got in contact with the DVLA not only were they unhelpful about getting the parking ticket business sorted but they threatened me with a fine and all manner of stuff.
Like I say, the DVLA have genuinely lost V5Cs sent to them, the postal service lose things. If you can prove that you sold it on a certain date thats fair enough, you put the V5C in the post back to DVLA and they never recieved or processed it thats not your fault....
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1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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Apr 26, 2006 15:32:11 GMT
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illegal to sell car without V5, fine of 5k for doing so.
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bryn
Posted a lot
Posts: 3,913
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Apr 26, 2006 15:47:01 GMT
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illegal to sell car without V5, fine of 5k for doing so. Quite rightly the onus is on you as the seller to notify the DVLA, take the fine, get your mate to chip in if he will. I've been fined twice (£80 a pop) for not sending off an updated V5 in time, and justifiably so as I'm shocking with paperwork. They don't except excuses, begging letters, notes from your mum. It's the law, plain and simple (It's still an though) ;D In a slightly more extreme case to demonstrate the point, I sold a Mini years ago and didn't send off the V5, the dibble showed up two months later and told me it had been parked in a 'sporting goods shop' in Manchester, no doubt to help it's owners gain access out of hours, enabling them to load a Transit van with kerwality goods.
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Volvo, Buggy, Discovery and an old tractor.
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Apr 26, 2006 16:01:29 GMT
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.................well thats told me. We learn something everyday I still think your mate should cough up though!
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If Typhoo put the Tea in Britain who put the c**t in Scunthorpe?
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Apr 26, 2006 16:41:48 GMT
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illegal to sell car without V5, fine of 5k for doing so. where does this come from? scottie
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Legal questionBenzBoy
@benzboy
Club Retro Rides Member 7
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Apr 26, 2006 16:44:11 GMT
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Hmm... you can get a form from the PO if you bought a car without a v5 - the guys who bought my 929 did that, so surely it can't be that illegal? It's all very confusing!
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Apr 26, 2006 16:47:29 GMT
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Its not illegal to sell a car without a V5C. After all every new car is sold without a V5C, cars bought at salvage auctions have no V5C at all. What is illegal (and the fine may be £5K now) is to sell a car and fail to notify the DVLA. However I can see where the confusion comes from.
I've sold at least one where I didn't have the V5C so I wrote to the DVLA a nice little letter with all the car's details on it informing them that I'd sold it but when the buyer came I couldn;t find the V5 and they were happy enough at that.
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1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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Apr 26, 2006 16:55:57 GMT
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" if you do NOT notify the DVLA that you have sold/transfered the vehicle,you will continue to be liable for it even though it is no longer in your possesion"
this is the excact wording from a v5c no mention of being illegal of getting a fine for failure to notify
scottie
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Legal questionBenzBoy
@benzboy
Club Retro Rides Member 7
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Apr 26, 2006 17:01:11 GMT
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I'd be inclined to do something along the lines of what Alistairk said - Royal Mail are always losing post... maybe that pesky V5C got lost too?
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Apr 26, 2006 17:08:17 GMT
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They cannot do you for driving an untaxed vehicle, as you weren't driving. To admit to doing so, and get your 'friend' to give you the money, is perjury. They'd need photographic evidence of you at the wheel to persue this if you inform them that you sold the car. They can do you for failure to notify, which is what they'll probably opt for if they have no photos, as for this one the onus is on you to prove that you did notify them - that's gonna be hard if you didn't do it I reckon you should tell them you weren't driving, go for the 'failure to notify', but still take the money off your mate (cos he drives untaxed cars, so deserves it) and use that to pay the fine - remember it's not a fine for driving untaxed so he technically shouldn't be paying anything towards it. they might then chase him for the actual untaxed offence but it's unlikely if the car is now scrap. If you're feeling lucky you could make out you posted the V5 off and they've lost it - but you've not exactly been lucky so far, so my opinion is to take it on the chin
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Never trust a man Who names himself Trevor. Or one day you might find He's not a real drug dealer.
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Apr 26, 2006 17:11:12 GMT
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Run away from home! Thats an option I have successfully used a number of times to escape library fines etc.
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1972 Fiat 130 1985 Talbot Alpine 1974 Lancia Beta Saloon 1975 + 1986 Mazda 929 Koop + Wagon 1982 Fiat Argenta 2.0 iniezione elettronica 1977 Toyota Carina TA14 BEST CAR EVER!!!!!!!! 1979 Datsun B310 Sunny 4-dr 1984 Audi 200 Quattro Turbo 1983 Honda Accord 1.6 DX GONE1989 Alfa 75 2.0 TS Mr T says: TREAT YO MOTHER RIGHT!
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Apr 26, 2006 17:22:15 GMT
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lol
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1974 Fiat 130 Coupe 1987 Saab 900 turbo 1988 Mercedes 300ce coupe 1988 Skoda Classic Trials Car 1988 Skoda road rally rapid 1990 Saab 9000 Carlsson
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Nick
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,483
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Apr 26, 2006 21:48:04 GMT
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right thanks for all the advice guys. i'll try take it all in and see what to do, i was going to call up the dvla and explain that "i got confused with the paperwork, and gave him the wrong bit.. but i have a receipt"...or i might just say "wtf i sent you the bleeding paperwork ya bastards " ...! i need to contact my mate first and see what he thinks about the whole thing...! bloody sucks though. anyway cheers again
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idea stolen from rattely eddie.
this weeks car count "5"
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