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Sept 29, 2010 14:18:43 GMT
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Boring comment: What's the legality of chopping a monocoque car? I've been considering giving the Polo a chop but I thought you weren't allowed to due to some sort of safety or cut-and-shut rule. There's a few retros (like Ladas) that would benefit from a top chop. I'm not sure if this is a UK car but if done here then It is illegal and if caught will be sent for BIVA . You are not allowed to modify a monocque beyond a few simple items . www.the-ace.org.uk/Chassis-and-Monocoque-Modification.htmlI guess everyone has forgotten the saga of Andy Saunders Bentley now ?
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Last Edit: Sept 29, 2010 14:49:14 GMT by kapri
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Sept 29, 2010 14:22:33 GMT
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I guess everyone has forgotten the saga of Andy Saunders Bentley now ? I'd be interested to know how that story ended...
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Sept 29, 2010 14:36:37 GMT
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It's as legal as making a car out of the front half of one and the back half of another, which is to say not very! Although it's possible to weld monocoque structures back together to an acceptable standard, the government would really rather you didn't try, as it's very easy to end up with a much weaker and more dangerous structure than the original, but very hard to inspect the work and guarantee its safety, especially with a skim of bog and a coat of paint on top. It may be possible to get it approved (like they do for stretch limos, hearses and other coachbuilt conversions) but I'm sure the process would be mighty expensive. Funnily enough, I was discussing exactly this yesterday with the VOSA area examiner... There is a similar clause in each of sections 2,3 and 5 dealing with the prescribed areas (suspension/steering, brakes and seatbelts) The point being, a well done modification that (in the tester's opinion) does NOT severely reduce strength to the point where it affects brakes and steering is not an MoT failure. Neither is one that can't be inspected because it is covered up. I put two cases forward to him, one a roof chopped monocoque car and the other a "bobbed" landrover. In both cases the vehicle would pass an MoT, and raise no issues with vehicle identity either. . MOT and identity 2 different issues . Likewise VOSA MOT tech and VOSA roadside inspections 2 different issues. Look over at the Landrover sites and see how many have been caught for bobbed chassis or the 2 recent 6 wheeler conversion who have come to ACE with lost identities recently, or a van conversion which has lost it's identity due to a removal of rear 10 inches of chassis. All have MOTs ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png) It's important to differentiate between Government agencies, their jobs and even sections within those departments. For instance ring up DVLA Swansea and depending who answers the phone you will get a multitude of answers, some may even be the one you want to hear, doesn't make it correct though ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png) However the only TRUE factual one comes from Policy Division. Likewise procedures , and levels of knowledge , at VOSA departments vary, MOTs currently do not look for identity issues other than VINs, colour ,fuel not matching the V5C ( Historic rally car caught on this recently on a reshell done over 15 years ago ! ). If there are discrepancies it flags at DVLA and you then hear from them not VOSA. Exactly what is allowable re body modifications is dealt with by VOSA tech not MOT section as MOT is a safety inspection not a compliance or identity check. Just readthrough this , sounds a bit curt , it's not meant to , just stating facts ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png)
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Sept 29, 2010 14:41:22 GMT
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I guess everyone has forgotten the saga of Andy Saunders Bentley now ? I'd be interested to know how that story ended... Simple, it got sent for SVA and there wasn't a class for it to go through without spending in the region of £10k on specialist reports. Luckily, after lobbying , the new BIVA test contains a section for modified already registered cars ( this didn't exist under SVA ). So Andy had to wait for about 4 months for it to come into place. I attended the BIVA test with him and it failed on small items and a couple of time involved ones but passed the next time and ended with Q plate as a modified monococque. It had already been sold and has since changed hands and I believe is in America.
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,744
Club RR Member Number: 34
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rusty got roof chopped? Dez
@dez
Club Retro Rides Member 34
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Sept 29, 2010 14:42:35 GMT
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ive got no idea why the hell are you all discussing wether the car is UK legal when its quite clearly an american registered car?!
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nconst
Part of things
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funky fresh since 89'
Posts: 447
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Sept 29, 2010 14:45:03 GMT
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News flash! Guess what! Not everyone thinks this car looks good! Those people hold what are known as opinions, which by definition tend to differ from subject to subject and person to person. Since when did an opinion become hate? I'm sure the term 'hater' was created by internet wieners who just can't handle criticism. I don't see anyone on this thread shouting down this car because of who built it. Read the thread again (if indeed you have). Nobody is railing against it (well apart from Amazo ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png) ) but people have merely pointed out they think the proportions look odd and it's pretty shabbily done. Both are valid opinions. Neither are hate. If you don't have the backbone to accept crisicism then maybe you shouldn't show off what you've built to the world. I'm sure Burroughs can handle critics otherwise he wouldn't do what he does so publicly. Clearly he does what he does to provoke a reaction, either negative or positive. If those with a negative opinion are suppressed then it's mission fail is it not? sorry please tell me in my above post where i said that retro rides were hating on this car ? i meant the interweb in general this and his e36 has generated so much hate an pretty much every forum I'm signed up to! Just to clear up i did read the thread ,and its shabbily done to fit in with the rest of the car. So do me a favour get off your curse word high horse kthnxbai ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png)
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Sept 29, 2010 14:47:22 GMT
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ive got no idea why the hell are you all discussing wether the car is UK legal when its quite clearly an american registered car?! The discussion on UK legality stems from someone asking whether or not it's legal to chop a monocoque, rather than relating to Burroughs' Beemer. ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png)
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Sept 29, 2010 14:50:39 GMT
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ive got no idea why the hell are you all discussing wether the car is UK legal when its quite clearly an american registered car?! Someone asked a question I answered, I wonder how many on here still don't know there are legal restrictions on how much you can modify your car ?
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,744
Club RR Member Number: 34
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rusty got roof chopped? Dez
@dez
Club Retro Rides Member 34
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Sept 29, 2010 14:54:26 GMT
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sorry, read through and didnt see the question. i thought it had jsut been assumed this was a UK car................
you have PM btw kev.
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Sept 29, 2010 17:25:35 GMT
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Funnily enough, I was discussing exactly this yesterday with the VOSA area examiner... There is a similar clause in each of sections 2,3 and 5 dealing with the prescribed areas (suspension/steering, brakes and seatbelts) The point being, a well done modification that (in the tester's opinion) does NOT severely reduce strength to the point where it affects brakes and steering is not an MoT failure. Neither is one that can't be inspected because it is covered up. I put two cases forward to him, one a roof chopped monocoque car and the other a "bobbed" landrover. In both cases the vehicle would pass an MoT, and raise no issues with vehicle identity either. . MOT and identity 2 different issues . Likewise VOSA MOT tech and VOSA roadside inspections 2 different issues. Look over at the Landrover sites and see how many have been caught for bobbed chassis or the 2 recent 6 wheeler conversion who have come to ACE with lost identities recently, or a van conversion which has lost it's identity due to a removal of rear 10 inches of chassis. All have MOTs ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png) It's important to differentiate between Government agencies, their jobs and even sections within those departments. For instance ring up DVLA Swansea and depending who answers the phone you will get a multitude of answers, some may even be the one you want to hear, doesn't make it correct though ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png) However the only TRUE factual one comes from Policy Division. Likewise procedures , and levels of knowledge , at VOSA departments vary, MOTs currently do not look for identity issues other than VINs, colour ,fuel not matching the V5C ( Historic rally car caught on this recently on a reshell done over 15 years ago ! ). If there are discrepancies it flags at DVLA and you then hear from them not VOSA. Exactly what is allowable re body modifications is dealt with by VOSA tech not MOT section as MOT is a safety inspection not a compliance or identity check. Just readthrough this , sounds a bit curt , it's not meant to , just stating facts ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png) Don't worry, I'm not offended. The conversation was about MoT on a currently registered vehicle ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png) Discrepencies with the vehicle record are noted at MoT - in fact, if the car doesn't match the record you have to create a new one based on the vehicle presented and DVLA get to sort the whole mess out later, but there is no provision (at present) for recording modifications.
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To get a standard A40 this low, you'd have to dig a hole to put it in
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mattc
Part of things
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It will be done one day.....
Posts: 217
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Sept 29, 2010 17:37:13 GMT
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The guy is a legand and car is amazing
Nuff said. Over and out
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bryn
Posted a lot
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Posts: 3,913
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Sept 29, 2010 18:57:00 GMT
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[/quote] I wrote this just for this occasion : www.retroscenemag.com/RetroSceneMag/post/Stanceworks-is-Hip-Hop.aspx[/quote]Nice analogy, most scenes have a theme running through them as that's what gives them an identity. I wrote about the internet a while back in RC, RR is such a wide church that the discussion here often turns a touch heated because of the broad spectrum of views. Anywaiysh... I like the car, the style and execution aren't relevant to me. The spirit behind it is, and I think it's 1JZ powered now? Having owned four black E28s, I'm now kicking myself for never seeing the possibility of that rear bumper mod. Although that is with a federal spec bumper so I'm not committing hari-kari on an end iron any time soon. I got a quote too have mine two-doored by a well known custom firm, it was pretty cheap for the metalwork too but left the country, parked the car and sold it months later. That needs to be done, and if Mr Burroughs is the man to do it? All power to him
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Volvo, Buggy, Discovery and an old tractor.
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Sept 29, 2010 20:06:39 GMT
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ace: thanks for that ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png) I was trying to find the specific answer on the ACE website and was being stupid, I think. Seems to me that more fun and exciting things can be done to cars in America but here in the UK we have to play within some very strict rules.... or lie.
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Sept 29, 2010 20:36:25 GMT
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Ive probably missed this somewhere, But whats up with the back door? has its drivers door been lengthened? or the car shortened? Looks weired ![???](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/huh.png) I like the chop, and the wheels. But still think the teeth look outa place.. And now seeing as theres no A-piller damage, Maybe paint it? ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png)
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Last Edit: Sept 29, 2010 20:36:48 GMT by retrowagen1234
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Sept 29, 2010 20:48:40 GMT
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Personally I think it looks great , out of all the cars different guise's this is the one that got the biggest OOOFFF from me . Granted the welding on the chop isn't perfect but then there's probably a few proper 'show' cars out there with worse jobs that are covered in a ton of filler and paint . Thumbs up from me ;D
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You've been telling me you were a genius since you were seventeen ... in all the time I've known you I still don't know what you mean !
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Sept 30, 2010 9:38:21 GMT
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whats up with the back door? has its drivers door been lengthened? or the car shortened? Compare and contrast... Original photo: ![](http://www.stanceworks.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/MG_5601-as-Smart-Object-1-copy.jpg) Will's p-chop: ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png)
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Sept 30, 2010 15:12:45 GMT
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![](http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/rr4/Ratdat/mb_bm_.jpg) I reckon the roof needs a minor tweek. Bringing it down a bit more at the front would see it right... ![](http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/rr4/Ratdat/mb_bm_alt.jpg)
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1962 Datsun Bluebird Estate - 1971 Datsun 510 SSS - 1976 Datsun 710 SSS - 1981 Dodge van - 1985 Nissan Cherry Europe GTi - 1988 Nissan Prairie - 1990 Hyundai Pony Pickup - 1992 Mazda MX5
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stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,874
Club RR Member Number: 174
Member is Online
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rusty got roof chopped? stealthstylz
@stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member 174
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Sept 30, 2010 18:12:26 GMT
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^^^Thats exactly what I envisioned. If Mike Burroughs reads this - get the grinder back out ![:D](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/grin.png) Matt
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Sept 30, 2010 20:01:07 GMT
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Just read the blog post David, you've hit the nail right on the head to be honest.
I'm going to take this a step further and say that Stanceworks are the N-Dubz of the modified car world. They have come from the underground, through hard work and endless self promotion. Even now, having found themselves in a successful position they are still unafraid to put the work in when it comes to letting the world know about them and getting their music and in Stanceworks case, their cars seen by a wider audience. And to top it off, in both cases, it seems there is no middle ground, you either love them or you hate them, but either way you're talking about them.
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Ed
Part of things
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Posts: 600
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One word.
Large
;D
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