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Mar 31, 2006 12:11:59 GMT
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I saw tests in PPC showing that LPG is decent enough as a performance fuel. After speaking with my mate on Saturday night, who is yet to show himself on these pages (hi Nickyboy2 if you are around). He is under the impression that LPG cars are now road tax free! is this true? not checked it out yet meself. He's keen to do a conversion to a golf along with GTI install if so. So what are the facts, any experience? Free tax? Chances of Government rocketing the price per litre by the time i can afford a conversion? How much conversion? where? And if its this good why are we not all doing it?
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it doesn't matter if it's a Morris Marina or a Toyota Celica - it's what you do with it that counts
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LPG, The facts?BenzBoy
@benzboy
Club Retro Rides Member 7
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Mar 31, 2006 12:17:59 GMT
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That's the first I've heard about the road tax - hope it's true but I doubt it. I know the government don't put fuel duty on LPG - that's why it's so cheap. I think it was PPC that said LPG is over 100RON, so running a higher compression ratio or bigger boost on yer turbo should be OK without detonation probs. I think LPG conversions are about a grand. ScrapinScrap did his own, but you have to get the work certified by a licenced garage (I think he knows someone in that trade) I've often thought about an LPG conversion, with me driving the gas guzzlers I tend to drive, but the cost of the conversion puts me off. Also, you get slightly less MPG on LPG, but when you're paying half the price for the stuff compared with unleaded it doesn't make much odds!
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Last Edit: Mar 31, 2006 12:18:41 GMT by BenzBoy
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Nathan
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 5,649
Club RR Member Number: 1
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LPG, The facts?Nathan
@bgtmidget7476
Club Retro Rides Member 1
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Mar 31, 2006 12:26:56 GMT
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I guess after the conversion you are able to run either?
I thought there was actually only 1 car which gets free tax but this was a petrol model. Dunno about LPG motors i guess its going to be the cheapest road tax if the emissions are really low.
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LPG, The facts?BenzBoy
@benzboy
Club Retro Rides Member 7
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Mar 31, 2006 12:30:26 GMT
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These new emissions-based tax rules are only for post-2001 cars. That "Zero-Emissions" tax-free thing makes me laugh - where do they think the power comes from to charge the batteries? A zero-emissions power station?!
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tenman
Part of things
m00000000000
Posts: 899
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Mar 31, 2006 12:40:01 GMT
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I've a mate who get an LPG conversion for his S14a... he does a lot of miles and reckons he saved the cost of the install in petrol in 6 months... LOL... its been covered on the SXOC quite a bit I think by him and others... www.sxoc.com/vbb and do a search for LPG should find out info
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RWD Fanatic...
2003 BMW 320d Wagon (getting old and boring) 1996 Mini Kensington (SWMBO's)
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Mar 31, 2006 12:52:12 GMT
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I've got to do abot 100 miles in an LPG volvo on Monday - I'll report back. It's a company reps car and has just been replaced with an ordinary diesel as the rep who owned it complained that she got so few miles from a tank it became a nuisance.
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Peugeot 307sw - Suzuki SV650S - MX5.
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Mar 31, 2006 13:28:57 GMT
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These new emissions-based tax rules are only for post-2001 cars. That "Zero-Emissions" tax-free thing makes me laugh - where do they think the power comes from to charge the batteries? A zero-emissions power station?! Valid point, i think thats where those hybrids come in as clever, but its only half a solution isn't it! If i could ever afford to buy an house and do it up i'd have solar tiles and wind turbines, that would charge ya batteries. However, chances of buying an house + wanting to buy a leccy car? LPG much more realistic... Do govenments give grants to LPG old cars or do they just want us all in pint sized trolleys?
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it doesn't matter if it's a Morris Marina or a Toyota Celica - it's what you do with it that counts
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Shortcut
Posted a lot
I won't be there when you cross the road, so always use the Green Cross Code.
Posts: 3,037
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Mar 31, 2006 15:01:04 GMT
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These new emissions-based tax rules are only for post-2001 cars. That "Zero-Emissions" tax-free thing makes me laugh - where do they think the power comes from to charge the batteries? A zero-emissions power station?! No electric OR hybrid car is VED free as the government account for remote emissions. Stragely the Smart Four4 diesel IS VED free, but certainly not zero emissions!!
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This space available to rent. Reach literally dozens of people. Cheap rates!
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LPG, The facts?BenzBoy
@benzboy
Club Retro Rides Member 7
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Mar 31, 2006 16:18:12 GMT
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I stand corrected. I propose a wind powered car
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thevert
Part of things
Mini builder
Posts: 358
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Mar 31, 2006 16:22:07 GMT
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You can get good power out of them with a bit of tinkering, LPG in 114 octane! optimax is only 98
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Mar 31, 2006 16:24:34 GMT
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Is it cos of the cost none/few of us are converting, or do we not trust govenment?
Cost for me.
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it doesn't matter if it's a Morris Marina or a Toyota Celica - it's what you do with it that counts
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LPG, The facts?BenzBoy
@benzboy
Club Retro Rides Member 7
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Mar 31, 2006 16:57:21 GMT
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Both. It's really expensive if your car/s isn't/aren't worth all that much (like mine) Also, I wouldn't trust the government as far as I could throw them - as soon as enough people are running LPG the tax will be ramped up for sure.
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Mar 31, 2006 17:04:15 GMT
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heard that trust issue a lot. some of us also drive older cars as they are cheaper and less commitment to fix, both comments true to my Sapph, so adding LPG kit to that woud be costly in comparison, but with a £40 tank fill every 5 minutes maybe it should be considered!
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it doesn't matter if it's a Morris Marina or a Toyota Celica - it's what you do with it that counts
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Mar 31, 2006 17:07:45 GMT
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based on petrol being £4 a gallon (guess) my annual 8.5 k cost £1214.00! looking at 2 years for a conv to pay for itself. plus if i did i'd be dead tempted to do the v8 first making it cheaper to run then than the 1.8!
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it doesn't matter if it's a Morris Marina or a Toyota Celica - it's what you do with it that counts
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Mar 31, 2006 17:18:53 GMT
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what you have to remember is that the fuel is injected as a gas, this means that less air goes in. To maintain the air fuel ratio by weight the gas takes up a large space, this expansion does however give a colder charge. If the fuel could be inject directly into the cylinder as a liquid then the expansion from liquid to gas would cool the charge and compress it at the same time, it would make for a higher charge density and lot more power. If this method is used with hydrogen then around 150% of the orginal power is made!
It does work as a performance fuel, and there is one australian VL calais car in particular that runs 9 sec quarters.
So more octane and more boost but lower charge density and so it all works out kinda even.
J
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Mar 31, 2006 19:08:05 GMT
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mate of mine has just had his t25 converted, proper certified installation... £850.
can forward installers details if required.
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Mar 31, 2006 19:09:47 GMT
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Yeah be good if anyone is interested cheers. I noticed earlier that the google ads were spot on offering LPG related stuf.
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it doesn't matter if it's a Morris Marina or a Toyota Celica - it's what you do with it that counts
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Mar 31, 2006 19:20:04 GMT
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I had a Range Rover 3.9 V8 that I ran for about a year. Got used as a daily driver and did 17,000 mile No way could I have afforded to run one if it was purely petrol. The conversion had been done before I bought it and cost £1350, I paid £1400 for the car. It would start on petrol and the first time it was revved above 1500 it would swap to LPG. I had a 100 litre tank which you can only put around 85 litres in. When the tank was getting low you got a lot of surge problems when accelarating or cornering so you couldnt let it get too low. The tank was in the boot so I ended up with a boot the size of a fiestas. I had a max range of around 150-180 mile with that tank. I got around 2-3mpg less with LPG so I got 10 instead of 13 ;D Power was about the same, but it felt a little flatter with a trailer on a hill not much but it was noticeable. You need a very good spark and the ignition system must be in tiptop condition. Plugs need to be a different heat grade to standard, I think they were a hotter plug but not sure . Had to plan LPG petrol stations into any long distance journey. Some LPG stations take ages to fill the tank, longest I had was over 10 minutes . It is quality being able to fill a range rover up for £25 but it does get annoying having to do that 3 times a week. I had considered adding on some underslung tanks but I thought I would be waiting at petrol stations forever to fill up. Other problems is at filling stations you have to hold the button in all the time its filling, which if you do that for 10 minutes your arm is nearly dropping off. Some cars cannot handle running LPG and the valve s burn out. Ford zetec engines are prone for this and its one of the reasons ford stopped offering it as an option. Its not recommended with plastic inlet manifolds as if it backfires, which it can if you have a poor spark it cna cause them to break. Some systems use the water temperature to control when they are running on gas, but in winter time they sometimes don't reach a high enough temperature and end up running on petrol all the time. I was speaking to one bloke with a 1998 range rover V8 he only used it for short runs and it never got warm enough to run on gas ;D Its mainly waffle but I hope some of its of use ;D
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Mar 31, 2006 19:38:03 GMT
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Lots of use. real life running facts. Gosh i hope i get more than 13mpg out of my 2wd 3.5 v8 sierra (hoping for 25)!
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it doesn't matter if it's a Morris Marina or a Toyota Celica - it's what you do with it that counts
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Mar 31, 2006 19:57:33 GMT
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