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Jun 15, 2010 20:03:20 GMT
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I has a question. well lots but lets not too tied down yet  Right, I'm thinking of building a stroker motor. Nothing hard about that; longer stroke crank, correct length con rods, maybe different piston pin heights. But the block I wish to use has a very short deck height. The deck height of the block the crank comes from is 25mm taller and that would be ideal. What I want to know is- is there anything wrong with a deck plate being CNC'd up? Block is alloy with steel liners, so longer liners would be needed and would help hold it in place. longer head studs would be needed too. Is it gonna cost the earth? Am I smoking a pipe dream? There is a block that would just about do without modification, but they are very rare US and JDM only. Have some sexy engines-     |
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Jun 15, 2010 20:14:22 GMT
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its possible, but will be VERY expensive !
how bout using shorter rods to offset the throw of the crank ?
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Jun 15, 2010 20:22:32 GMT
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I had that thought, but then found this snippet of wisdom.
geussing the rods have to work through too great an angle and thats why the revs need capping? not really what I want from the build.
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Jun 15, 2010 20:40:34 GMT
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Might not be 'that' expensive. Certainly do-able.
Find a company that has a waterjet with 'lead-in' (AKA tilt-jet) which cancels out any taper that occurs on cut through between faces and along cutting paths. I can do the CAD work if you want which I can supply as a direct cutting path which will cut down the cost because they should be able to cut straight from the file. 25mm can be cut very accuratley these days...I've got some stunning samples that I kept when I used to do tolerance checks quite a few years back of you wanted to see what is acheivable?
This can be done in both ally & steel.
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rysz
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,554
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Jun 15, 2010 20:43:52 GMT
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Might not be 'that' expensive. Certainly do-able. Find a company that has a waterjet with 'lead-in' (AKA tilt-jet) which cancels out any taper that occurs on cut through between faces and along cutting paths. I can do the CAD work if you want which I can supply as a direct cutting path which will cut down the cost because they should be able to cut straight from the file. 25mm can be cut very accuratley these days...I've got some stunning samples that I kept when I used to do tolerance checks quite a few years back of you wanted to see what is acheivable? This can be done in both ally & steel. I completely agree with Bruce here, especially if you have the path details from a good CAD file - I can manage the dxf if needed, but I have been out of the game for a while so I would struggle with the path! A decent multi axis CNC machine would do the job beautifully as well! Do IT Edd! Rysz. |
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Jun 15, 2010 20:49:17 GMT
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Rysz,
I'll try and give you a call tomorrow re; cutting paths. Nothing huge...if you can do CAD you'll get the principle of paths dead easy. Need to catch up anyway. Been meaning to call you since we last spoke back in Jan and I've failed to since!
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rysz
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,554
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Jun 15, 2010 20:56:26 GMT
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Bruce, if my main rig was working that would be awesome! However, it is in bits and I am working on Kims laptop atm  Will be good to speak though Dude! Rysz. |
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Jun 15, 2010 20:57:48 GMT
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Agreed, in principle, as there are compression-raising shims available for most common block patterns for insertion between head and block. You are essentially asking about the efficacy of using a thicker-than-normal shim. Why not? If anything, it will be even more blow-proof than with regular thin shims. Give me a hand-drawn diagram on a napkin and I'll hand cut one for you out of scrap steel with my oxy-acet torch. You can then final finish it with a grinder stone or a bastardfile.  V V ....oh........it's a state secret project then! ..... V V |
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Last Edit: Jun 15, 2010 21:02:19 GMT by Team Blitz
 Team Blitz Ford Capri parts worldwide: Restoration, Road, or Race. Used, Repro, and NOS, ranging from scabby to perfect. Itching your Capri jones since 1979! Buy, sell, trade. www.teamblitz.com blitz@teamblitz.com |
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Jun 15, 2010 20:58:45 GMT
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I have a mate of mine who will know someone with a waterjet somewhere round the fens, I bet. geussing you can just take the dims for the for the path from a head gasket? certainly makes things more attainable, thanks Bruce- I will be talking to you about this very soon  Basically there are two options for me; one is this, the other is using the "big block" and using a different crank but that will need line boring and new main caps making in steel and that certainly isn't cheap!! I want to use this engine family as I'm getting to know them like BMWs and I have a lot of love for them. you must know what it is Rysz, its what we talked about when I was talking mk1 escorts that have now become avengers |
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Jun 15, 2010 21:00:16 GMT
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Give me a hand-drawn diagram on a napkin and I'll hand cut one for you out of scrap steep with my oxy-acet torch. You can then final finish it with a grinder stone or a bastardfile. well, I did think about the accuracy of HSS holesaws and a die grinder |
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rysz
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,554
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Jun 15, 2010 21:02:18 GMT
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you must know what it is Rysz, its what we talked about when I was talking mk1 escorts that have now become avengers MWUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Sweet dude! I offer all help, up to and including my families organs to see that run! Rysz. |
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rysz
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,554
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Jun 15, 2010 21:06:05 GMT
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V V ....oh........it's a state secret project then! ..... V V Ah TB, in order to know, you have to be a connoisseur of the products of the Bavarian Motor Works! Themz krusty kappers just won't cut it doncha know y'all? ;D ;D ;D ;D Any chance of a sticker for my pug?   ;D Rysz. |
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Last Edit: Jun 15, 2010 21:06:46 GMT by rysz
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Jun 15, 2010 21:12:01 GMT
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V V ....oh........it's a state secret project then! ..... V V no, not really, just I happen to chat to Rysz outside RR. just a bit of research right now. lets just says that its one of the worlds fastest and best known 1300 16v imports with a VERY cult following getting some honda input to grow some cojones going in something 25years older than it and RWD weighs a mere 62kg as a 1.6 too. |
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Jun 15, 2010 21:18:23 GMT
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V V ....oh........it's a state secret project then! ..... V V Ah TB, in order to know, you have to be a connoisseur of the products of the Bavarian Motor Works! Themz krusty kappers just won't cut it doncha know y'all? ;D ;D ;D ;D Any chance of a sticker for my pug? ;D Rysz. LOL, Rysz! Sticker, no problem, toss me your addy. Or Grizz may still have some in his TB stash. On your Capper clapper comment, you mean like this BM..... with a, er, um, er, um, a, er, um, a Capri Cossie motor in it?  ;D |
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Last Edit: Jun 15, 2010 22:02:00 GMT by Team Blitz
Team Blitz Ford Capri parts worldwide: Restoration, Road, or Race. Used, Repro, and NOS, ranging from scabby to perfect. Itching your Capri jones since 1979! Buy, sell, trade. www.teamblitz.com blitz@teamblitz.com |
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Jun 15, 2010 21:57:56 GMT
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perfectly possible, I've a long stroke imp motor done like this, be worth checking the block has enough clearance in the crank case for the big-ends of the rods before you go too far with getting bits made. fit the crank and make a dummy wooden piston if need be to check
ideally the spacer would support the top of the liners, but may not be totally necessary. you can cut out with jigsaws/holesaws etc and if concerned a technique i've seen for support is to dummy build the whole engine then drill holes through the side of the spacer (perpendicular to bore), hoe extends just into the liners, then drill and tap and fit grub-screws with loctite, these support liner, not sure on how this may work in your application, may be problems with different thermal expansions (could force liner out of round?)
you may also consider doweling the spacer to the block to stop it shuffling between the two gaskits.
you'll need to make a paper gaskit to seal the spacer to the water-way and calculate the thickness into your stack up.
get the spacer machined slightly thicker than you need then leave it that size, might not be so bad with 25mm thick, but the imp one was 6mm thick and easier to do final maching of the block/liners to achieve correct deck heights than risk spacer being unequal in thicknesss (flexible to machine) and also difficult to clamp.
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Jun 15, 2010 22:01:22 GMT
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With a 25mm spacer, I'd have concerns about cooling around the top of the bore if the original engine uses a closed water jacket. If it's an open top to the water jacket with wet liners then it probably wouldn't matter but if it's a closed deck on the block with just a number of water ports through into the head, then you'd have a lot of metal and not much coolant up top.
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1962 Datsun Bluebird Estate - 1971 Datsun 510 SSS - 1976 Datsun 710 SSS - 1981 Dodge van - 1985 Nissan Cherry Europe GTi - 1988 Nissan Prairie - 1990 Hyundai Pony Pickup - 1992 Mazda MX5
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They do this with imps a lot to produce over 1040cc engines, all the way up to about 1300cc afaik. longer liners and a block spacer plate to introduce some extra length (fnar)   |
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Twice as many headgaskets if nothing else. possible heat dispersing issues depending on the thickness of the spacer?
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Remade In Australia
thereimaginarium.com.au
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Thanks guys I had considered uing really long dowelling from the original positions in the block and using far longer dowel pieces. I don't think it will move much once the liners are pressed in and the head is torqued down, but I bet I'd get a surprise. Rat-dat- I hadn't actually thought of that. its a closed deck with dry liners. I wouldn't want to take the strength away from the block at that point, geussing I could open up some of the water ways outwards to the block edges though to increase flow. spinning the water pump faster is just gonna get cavitation so that won't work. J- those pics are just what I needed to see how it goes together, thanks dude thanks all |
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Jun 16, 2010 10:45:33 GMT
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you could have the spacer 25mm thick at the outside but only say 8mm thick around the liners to allow water circulation,
also the imp liners are about 2 thou clearance on the spigot in the block, then locktite'd in place, not sure which number loctite (i can probably find out), but to get them out you have to heat the block to break the bond then use a 20 ton press.
if memory serves the renault 5 similarly the peugeot engine (the one with the pistons pointing at your feet) were wet liners and sealed to the block at the base with an O-ring. not sure what they use on the K-Series but what i'm getting at is i'd avoid trying to make them a interference fit, probably leak water to oil when it heats up
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