kevfromwales
Posted a lot
the conrod's REALLY out the block now!
Posts: 3,909
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Jun 10, 2010 11:13:23 GMT
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ok guys as most of you probably know, I bought a nice (-ish) 60's yank ford pickup truck a while back, and have been chugging around the country pony expressing all sorts of tat with it now, it has never (ever!) been fast, it's fitted with a 3.3 litre 4 cylinder perkins diesel - the 4.203, along with a 4 speed manual with crash 1st and 2nd - and this isn't a major issue - 55mph flat out I can actually live with the problem that I have, is that over the 120 miles to billing aquadrome, I achieved 15 mpg - FIFTEEN MILES PER GALLON!! (albeit with a full load of bikes, a pinto and 5 wellers, but going pretty steady) now, it's been suggested that the injectors might need a dose of looking at, as it smokes like a good 'un on startup, and also seems to knock a bit of smoke out pulling away in a high gear - eg chugging around a mini roundabout at 30-ish, then pulling away in 4th leaves a james bond esq smokescreen  - so whaddaya reckon? - anybody on here ever run one of these lumps? - anybody know any good parts suppliers? - anybody want to buy a perkins engine? ;D - could there be something else amiss that is causing it's abysmal fuel consumption?? (like a hole in the fuel tank lolzzz) - astound me with your archaic diesel knowledge guys! |
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Almost on the road: b11 sunny breadvan, e36 tds, 325i skidcar,
nearly there: ford f250 tathauler, suzuki alto, u11 bluey
not for a while: ford pop, 32 rails,
not in this lifetime: ruby, '29 hillman
''unfortanatly I'm quite old and scruffy and in need of some loving. my drive shaft needs a new boot....''
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Jun 10, 2010 11:44:20 GMT
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Can't help myself, but might be an idea to ask on some landrover forums, esp the 101 forward control forums as Perkins are a popular conversion in 101's, I thought about getting a 101 once, wanted the stock v8 burble tho, but the "9 mpg on a run" kinda put me off!! Lol
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Remember the days when sex was safe and motorsport was dangerous. Vintage bling always attracts pussy.  |
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colc
Part of things
Posts: 222
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Jun 10, 2010 12:10:23 GMT
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Couple of things....what gearbox / back axle combo are you running, how low geared is it? Give it a good service [fluids, filters etc] diesels seem to drink a lot more when they haven't been serviced.
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Jun 10, 2010 12:41:00 GMT
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Google up Diesel Bob - he is a God with those Devilsperm engines...
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Koos
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kevfromwales
Posted a lot
the conrod's REALLY out the block now!
Posts: 3,909
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Jun 10, 2010 12:45:43 GMT
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hhhmmmm - 'diesel bob' sounds like a guy who might be of use!
colc - the back axle is the stock dana 60 unit, it decodes from the factory VIN as the second tallest ratio available, but it may well have been changed I guess - we have guesstimated the origin of at least the gearbox (and probably the engine) as dodge 50
it's had a change of fuel filter as on the dawn drive run it was playing up and running rough, new filter saw that fixed, and 5mph added to the top speed!!
cairy - most of the landy forums I've found seem to give the perky a big thumbs down, it seems to have been popular back in the day - but as more modern lumps have become available, they've lost out
ta all - kfw
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Almost on the road: b11 sunny breadvan, e36 tds, 325i skidcar,
nearly there: ford f250 tathauler, suzuki alto, u11 bluey
not for a while: ford pop, 32 rails,
not in this lifetime: ruby, '29 hillman
''unfortanatly I'm quite old and scruffy and in need of some loving. my drive shaft needs a new boot....''
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Jun 10, 2010 13:38:38 GMT
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cairy - most of the landy forums I've found seem to give the perky a big thumbs down, it seems to have been popular back in the day - but as more modern lumps have become available, they've lost out ta all - kfw bah, landrover forum goers just have a god-complex about the 200tdi engine. Perkins engines are what they are, heavy slow, crude, loud, slightly odd smelling and usually a bit incontinent.. much like your favourite grandparent. They're also barn-door simple, very hard to kill, very powerfull at low revs, and capable of keeping running in bad conditions on bad fuel with very little maintenance. I went from a rangerover with a 4236 perkins to one with a 200tdi and the only way the tdi was better was that it'd go faster on a motorway and was quieter about it, the perkins was much nicer to drive at low speeds (no waiting for the turbo to wake up just leave it in 3rd) and much more economical (35mpg all day on the perkins, 27mpg from the 200tdi in a comparable car) Kev, when I Was running mine I spoke with these people about parts: www.parts4engines.com/ .. never ordered anything so I can't comment on their service but they seemed nice. Is it black or blue smoke? black is unburnt diesel, blue is oil.. if it's only getting 15mpg it must be worth checking / replacing the injectors, diesel pump or maybe the lift pump? sorry to rant earlier in my post, just i'm still missing my perkins engined RangeRover, it impressed me at everything I tried (apart from being quiet ) |
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Jun 10, 2010 17:12:51 GMT
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Worth shoving a bottle of imnector cleaner through it and changing the oil??
Did it on my 200tdi and the economy and performance jumped.
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Koos
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Jun 10, 2010 17:17:41 GMT
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Koos
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MrSpeedy
East Midlands
www.vintagediesels.co.uk
Posts: 4,786 
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Jun 10, 2010 17:29:42 GMT
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Blue smoke can also be poorly combusted fuel, usually due to either low compression or dribbly/partially blocked atomisers.
I would expect the Perkins to blue smoke when cold, but should run realitively clean when upto temp and speed. a set of service exch injectors should help the problem. You should expect to pay around 35ish quid each for these.
Black smoke is, as previously mentioned, unburnt fuel due to either overload or insuficient air (ie, blocked air filter).
If it's black smoking, then simply ease off the throttle until it clears, but still pulls.
These old Perkinds engines never were particularly efficient or clean engines in automotive applications, but they are generally a reliable old slogger !
In our experiance, liquid 'cures' such as injector cleaner, do sweet FA on diesels as you are asking a detergent to compensate for what is generally mechanical wear !!!
Any ideas as to the history/mileage of the engine ? A worn injection pump can also produce poor efficiency/running, but if it's a DPA (rotary) pump they are not cheap to have overhauled. (approx 3-400 notes) with the inline pumps being slightly cheaper
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purplevanman
Posted a lot
Way too orangey for crows
Posts: 3,829
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Jun 10, 2010 19:15:30 GMT
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My bus is a dodge 50, perkins phaser with autobox, gets much more than 15mpg and it weighs over 4ton with the aerodynamics of a barn !!
I reckon you have a problem so what has been said I can only repeat
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kevfromwales
Posted a lot
the conrod's REALLY out the block now!
Posts: 3,909
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Jun 11, 2010 13:18:21 GMT
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cheers guys
grunts my good man, can you give any more intel on the dodge 50 lumps? - do you know where the engine no. is located on yours??
karoshi - rant away mate - sounds like you've got it off your chest lol! - it's seems to be knocking out black smoke on a run, it gives a lot of blue out on startup from cold, but that clears ok
mr speedy - it's a rotary pump, so hopefully that's not buggered then!
I'm guessing the best plan of attack is start with a set of recon injectors - cheers for all the help guys
- kfw
ps - might be being super dense here (probably one for the 'questions' thread) but why would an oil change increase fuel economy?
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Almost on the road: b11 sunny breadvan, e36 tds, 325i skidcar,
nearly there: ford f250 tathauler, suzuki alto, u11 bluey
not for a while: ford pop, 32 rails,
not in this lifetime: ruby, '29 hillman
''unfortanatly I'm quite old and scruffy and in need of some loving. my drive shaft needs a new boot....''
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MrSpeedy
East Midlands
www.vintagediesels.co.uk
Posts: 4,786
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Jun 11, 2010 14:36:29 GMT
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It wouldn't really IMO but should allow the engine to run better/more freely so may improve marginally ?!
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Ads 19
Posted a lot
My old r19
Posts: 1,351
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Jun 11, 2010 16:27:13 GMT
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dodge 50s either have the 4236 perkins Na
Or the phazer series, basically a mildly updated 4236.
the 4203 is far older and could be from anything to dumpers tractor or maybe a early commer walkthrough. boats also a common source. it can be an economical engine if ran at 1000rpm all day in a genny, but in a truck not so good.
The phazer would swap in and its not a bad engine, but they are bloody expensive atm.
I'd go for a Cummins 4bt, very cheap and loads of torque. look in Ivecos and Daf 7.5tonners
if they give good economy in a 7.5t what will they do for you?
Failing that have a go at turboing your 4203 not sure how long it would last in your aplication, but been done to plenty of tractors round here, although Twinturbo perkins and michigan v8s seem to be the preferance. I'm looking for a big aircooled deutz v8, or maybe a twinstroke diesel for my next Plougher!
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B-8-D
Posted a lot
down to one car!!
Posts: 4,038
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Jun 11, 2010 22:09:59 GMT
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dodge 50s either have the 4236 perkins Na Or the phazer series, basically a mildly updated 4236. the 4203 is far older and could be from anything to dumpers tractor or maybe a early commer walkthrough. boats also a common source. it can be an economical engine if ran at 1000rpm all day in a genny, but in a truck not so good. The phazer would swap in and its not a bad engine, but they are bloody expensive atm. I'd go for a Cummins 4bt, very cheap and loads of torque. look in Ivecos and Daf 7.5tonners if they give good economy in a 7.5t what will they do for you? Failing that have a go at turboing your 4203 not sure how long it would last in your aplication, but been done to plenty of tractors round here, although Twinturbo perkins and michigan v8s seem to be the preferance. I'm looking for a big aircooled deutz v8, or maybe a twinstroke diesel for my next Plougher! i know for a few magrius deutz v8's near me that can be for sale... si |
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kevfromwales
Posted a lot
the conrod's REALLY out the block now!
Posts: 3,909
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cheers w201 - that's good info
it's looking like we might be hoiking the old girl out then, and whanging a tranny DI in for now - think it might be time for a 'yay - diesel engines' kind of thread!
it's trip to brizzle this coming weekend might be it's final hurrah!
- kfw
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Almost on the road: b11 sunny breadvan, e36 tds, 325i skidcar,
nearly there: ford f250 tathauler, suzuki alto, u11 bluey
not for a while: ford pop, 32 rails,
not in this lifetime: ruby, '29 hillman
''unfortanatly I'm quite old and scruffy and in need of some loving. my drive shaft needs a new boot....''
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Jun 12, 2010 14:55:15 GMT
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Kev,
I'll pm you the number of my mucker who is THE expert on Perkins lumps if you like? If he doesn't know then honestly nobody will.
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Corsa Apology Champion 2014.
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grant
Part of things
Posts: 206
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Jun 12, 2010 22:12:23 GMT
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I have a 4.203 in my land and its really good on fuel, i get around 30mpg roughly, never calculated it properly but allways been happy.
Its a lwb so not light, I have an overdrive and get about 60 pusing it, I cruise at 50 so the same as you. The injectors can be stripped so I would do that, did it with mine....
I'm not sure if the pumps can be adjusted on these, change the fuel filter and clean out the glass bowl. Bleed it from the injector pipes only don't bothere trying to bleed it any place else, its a pig, I found out works perfect just cracking the injector pipes off in the end. Its a 19mm or old equivelent ( too young to work in old money lol)
Maybe set the valve clearances also?
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Jun 13, 2010 13:50:58 GMT
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I don't know Perkins engines, other than by reputation. However, I did have a bit of experience of an old-tech Lister diesel on a boat a few years ago.
-Check that the air filter is clean
-Check the valve clearances
-Check that the injector pipes aren't leaking
-Get the injectors serviced or exchanged
That little lot got the lister running better and it checked out less smoke and unburnt diesel at full chat too.
A compression test would be a good idea.
Ideally you should also check the timing of the fuel pump - but you probably need a factory manual to do that really. If the fuel is injected at the wrong time it'll chuck most of it out unburnt - just like the ignition timing on a petrol engine affects the power output.
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Ads 19
Posted a lot
My old r19
Posts: 1,351
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Jun 13, 2010 16:23:28 GMT
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how about some LPG in it. propane injection seems to be the diesel mod atm, thinking its a bit like when i throw petrol down airfilter to start my digger though!
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Jun 13, 2010 20:26:06 GMT
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I had a 4203 in a Rangie many years ago. It was really only ever useful as a boat anchor though it'd do more than 15mpg even hauling a Range Rover about. I remember about 25 mpg being the norm. Awful engine that just couldn't rev though stump pulling torque low down. Frankly I wouldn't spend a penny on it but would swap it for a better engine. The Land Rover lads abandoned it years ago for good reasons.
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