|
|
|
I am 100% sure this is not the place to ask the question, but the clever bods will be on here. I hope there are a few answers before the LOLcats come flying in, or a lock gets thrown its way. Please PM answers or opinions if you want. Thanks. Right, did not get much done tonight, had day job stuff to deal with after work. Fitted the wheel adaptors, they take it from the basic 4 stud caravan pattern up to a 5x205 VW studpattern so that I can use a pair of the polished Radar wheels I bought last year. I also gain about 30mm wider spacing, so that the wide mudguards can be reasonably filled. Took pics from 3 sides, I need your help and opinions here please. Wheel is in the air as trailer is back on axle stands. However, I tried to place the mudguard where I want to fit it to the side of the body. Mudguards will be bolted through the side of the body, to the side walls, not in supports like some. I have no idea how much the axle will swing and move upward on the road, once the trailer is completed, or when Nicola and I are inside it along with fridge, gas bottles and other stuff..... Any clever people have an idea how much the axle would swing, and obviously come closer to the mudguards ? I have used about 45mm spacing in the photos with a block of wood inside the arch. Side view. Rear view. Front view. Please also comment on what you see, does it all look reasonably in proportion ? Thanks all, for looking in and helping. Rian.
|
|
Last Edit: May 8, 2010 14:26:50 GMT by grizz
|
|
|
|
|
|
Surely if you bolt supports for the guards to the axle/suspension then you can run the guards as close as you like to the wheel/tyre because the guard will move with the wheel. No rubbing/catching issues to worry about and no holes needed in the side of the caravan (or nuts washers on the inside)
That's certainly how I would do it and if you make the supports 'just right' then you shouldn't really see them either. You'll only have about 1/2" gap between the guard and the side of the caravan.
|
|
|
|
MrT
Posted a lot
Just who did Mr Hitler REALLY think he was kidding?
Posts: 1,773
|
|
|
^^^I was just about to reply with exactly that answer myself..! The added benefit would be less potential for water ingress...
|
|
|
|
nutter81
Part of things
I joined facebook so i could talk to the missus
Posts: 928
|
|
|
give that man a donut or something ive just been sitting here trying to work out a way and here is the man with the solution Bruce brill just brill thats why area 52 is yours and Grizz that looks fapping awsome
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Thanks guys, few points to ponder..... The place to add supports onto the axle are limited, it would mean welding a brace or tabs on there somewhere..... I do not want to "weaken" the area. More importantly, if you look , you will see that I have minimal external holes, markings etc, as I want to keep the canvas as clean as possible. I do not want to add supports to the mudguards, whether fixed underneath with resin, or bolted through the surface of them. Using the bolts through the sides means that you end up with all the fastening out of sight. I love the idea of having the mudguards move with the axle and wheels, but it will leave me with other things to manage, like holes through the surface of the mudguards etc.... However, it is not too late to still make changes... so I am open to suggestions. Hope my reasoning makes sense too.
|
|
Last Edit: May 6, 2010 22:27:31 GMT by grizz
|
|
Rich
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 6,302
Club RR Member Number: 160
|
|
|
Without knowing a load of variables like the total weight you will be putting on the suspension and the suspensions spring rates, I can't see a sensible way except 'suck it and see'. Trailer is shaping up very nicely though! EDIT: I like Bruces idea, run them as part of the suspension. That would be ace..
|
|
Last Edit: May 6, 2010 22:31:23 GMT by Rich
|
|
MrT
Posted a lot
Just who did Mr Hitler REALLY think he was kidding?
Posts: 1,773
|
|
|
Could you not bolt rather than weld a hidden bracket to the brake backplate mounting holes? A 'flange' to match the shape of the mudguard inner edge would ensure it was held rigid and the load spread across its length rather than concentrated on one or two mounting points...
|
|
|
|
spiny
Club Retro Rides Member
Wiki Admin
I am abivalent towards car electrics ...
Posts: 1,331
Club RR Member Number: 167
|
|
|
what sort of sispention is it ? can you just put a bit of string where it connects to the chassis and tie a pen to where the center of the wheel will be then draw an arc up wards ? that will give you the travel - then bolt the arches just after whatever bumpstop arrangement you have.
|
|
|
|
spiny
Club Retro Rides Member
Wiki Admin
I am abivalent towards car electrics ...
Posts: 1,331
Club RR Member Number: 167
|
|
|
as my explanation probably sucks, heres a pic I just drew
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
as my explanation probably sucks, heres a pic I just drew True, something to keep in mind, the arc of travel too, so another one for the fixed to the axle argument. Will have to relook my plan, also makes sense not to drill 8 holes into a perfectly good side of plywood, through into the cabin spa ce. Later guys. off to work now. Friday !!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rian, I'll give you some more of my thinking behind not mounting the guards to the body (in addition to the ones I mentioned above): 1) As Mr T says, you're not exposing the sides to the risk of water ingress which is not a good thing 2) If you were to catch the arches on anything or break them (most likely thing to break on a trailer....trust me!), how will you remove them if they are bonded to the bodywork and bolted through from inside? Will this mean removing all the insulation etc... Not good. 3) The aesthetics will never look as good because you'll always have a gap much larger than you really, truthfully want. 4) Even loading the trailer up, adding lots of weight and trying to work out the suspension travel, you'll never replicate the movement of the trailer bouncing fully under its own weight (hit a dip, trailer bounces out and lands hard....all trailers do this). If you get this all wrong then it's potentially "bye bye lovely guards" on the first big bounce. All that work, those drilled sides to the trailer, the bolts fitted behind the insulation/cavity, the sealant on the sides etc....and no arches. Making brackets is pretty simple (very simple in fact) and will allow you to run the guards as close as you like to the wheels. It'll be a lot less work than fixing them to the side of the trailer and a hell of a lot less work to mend/replace if one gets broken. Bond some kevlar around the inside lip of the guard. One layer is plenty. Do this and you won't have any problems with the bolts pulling through/cracking the glass. I can send you some kevlar strip if you like? Got guite a bit in a box at the unit.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oh....and if you choose the right kind of bolt (domed head/button head) then visually you won't even notice it tucked down the side of the guard.
What would you prefer: the guards sat flush with the body but 3"? above the tyre....or the guard 1/2" from the body, some hidden fixings and the guard sat right over the tyre. Plus the facility to repair/replace much more easily with no comprimise to the structure of the trailer sides.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Even if you bolt it to the axle you still wont be able to have them any closer to the wheel than you have in that photo as you'll have to leave room to be able to remove the wheel under the arch. Just another point to bring to the table
|
|
1997 TVR Chimaera 2009 Westfield Megabusa
|
|
|
|
|
That was the spacing I was thinking of/imagining when I said about the supports. You certainly couldn't have them that close if mounted to the body.
I reckon they look 'right' at the spacing shown. ;D
|
|
|
|
LowStandards
Club Retro Rides Member
Bigging Up The Sum Sum Man Since '99
Posts: 2,664
|
|
|
I concur with Bruce, weld some tabs to the brake backplate or axle, some bracing, and bolt them on! Cant see why you'd need to have any fixings shown on top of the guards, make up an inner fillet of steel to take the strain and bolt through the side. Also, if you weld on some tabs so you can bolt the brackets on and off, removing the wheel like Adam mentions should be no more drame than un-doing 2 or 3 extra bolts!!! Here have the shonkiest photoshizzle i've ever done to try and portray what i mean!!!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You guys win.
Thanks a lot for all the info and opinions, thats what this board is all about.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Here are a couple of pics, not very good detail, but I get the feeling it swist against the rubber bushes inside the axle tube IYKWIM :bounce: The original caravan must have been a 6 berth and about 20 plus footer, I cut it back to about 15 foot IIRC. And in all it's naked glory.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rian, I'll give you some more of my thinking behind not mounting the guards to the body (in addition to the ones I mentioned above): 1) As Mr T says, you're not exposing the sides to the risk of water ingress which is not a good thing 2) If you were to catch the arches on anything or break them (most likely thing to break on a trailer....trust me!), how will you remove them if they are bonded to the bodywork and bolted through from inside? Will this mean removing all the insulation etc... Not good. 3) The aesthetics will never look as good because you'll always have a gap much larger than you really, truthfully want. 4) Even loading the trailer up, adding lots of weight and trying to work out the suspension travel, you'll never replicate the movement of the trailer bouncing fully under its own weight (hit a dip, trailer bounces out and lands hard....all trailers do this). If you get this all wrong then it's potentially "bye bye lovely guards" on the first big bounce. All that work, those drilled sides to the trailer, the bolts fitted behind the insulation/cavity, the sealant on the sides etc....and no arches. Making brackets is pretty simple (very simple in fact) and will allow you to run the guards as close as you like to the wheels. It'll be a lot less work than fixing them to the side of the trailer and a hell of a lot less work to mend/replace if one gets broken. Bond some kevlar around the inside lip of the guard. One layer is plenty. Do this and you won't have any problems with the bolts pulling through/cracking the glass. I can send you some kevlar strip if you like? Got guite a bit in a box at the unit. Interested in this Bruce, But know nothing about Kevlar and how to use it. Easy. Difficult, what sort of glue or accelerants does it use etc ?? Oh, and you have PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Right guys, here is a close up of what I have . The top right little sticky outy bit is the entry for the brake line into the hub.... so not good for attaching anything. Then you have the "Swing arm" from the central axle which runs diagonally toward the rear, fits into the hub, and possibly cast iron or some other heavy duty steel, although there is a tab welded to in on the bottom left as you look at the photo. The tab you see to the bottom left of that swingarm has a single hole in it, and about 8mm thick and 25mm wide. it runs almost parallel to the body and then folds back under the body ending in the hole you see. If I were to use that tab as support for the mudguard, all the energy would end up in there. I really do not see anywhere else that I can attach and stabilise the guard propperly...... so I was thinking maybe make a bracket that fits over it, clamping behind the upper length above the hole, and still use only one bolt and nut to secure, with a "T" shaped brace at the top, ending up in a curved piece of steel to which the fenders are attached. Hope you are as confused as I am by now. I really see only that tab as a sensible place to mount anything. Had planned to cut them off a while ago, just as well I did not, well at the moment at least.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
i would think a chassis/axle from a big-ish caravan would have quite stiff suspension, the weight you'll be rolling it at now will only be a fraction of the original so minimal movement.
|
|
|
|
|