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I think it's safe to say that most people on here can be partial to a bit of negative camber. But let's not forget negative camber's evil stepbrother, positive camber... y'know, the extreme pigeon-toed angles that send old Skoda 450s into ditches.      This thread was inspired by a gluing accident in a Fujimi kit I ham-fistedly and inexpertly made...  So, what have you got? |
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metro
Part of things
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I want an Allard  |
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Seth
South East
MorrisOxford TriumphMirald HillmanMinx BorgwardIsabellaCombi
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Follow your dreams or you might as well be a vegetable. |
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stevek
Yorkshire and The Humber
Posts: 728
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Apr 28, 2010 10:06:37 GMT
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I guess most of these positive camber pics are from lighter engines being fitted and/or too raised suspension or something, ie its not supposed to be like that; ideally. However it seems a lot of old race cars ran positive camber presumably through choice, why would that be? Sorry couldn't find any sensible pictures but do I win ....  |
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Positive camberDeleted
@Deleted
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Apr 28, 2010 11:02:30 GMT
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There's a small amount of pos on the front of mine. Not enough though!
Stevek, on beam axles it makes the car track straight with a small amount of toe in.
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Apr 28, 2010 11:21:03 GMT
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Johnny69, I always thought that the positive camber on vintage cars was to cater to the tall cross-ply tyres rather than the beam axles. I never really researched the theory behind it though. Now that you mention it, perhaps it is for beam axles only, as I can't really think of anything IFS with positive camber. A quick browse around the web only seems to indicate that positive camber reduces steering effort and reduces the loads on kingpins and other steering components, which seems to fit for normal vintage cars but doesn't really explain the racers. Has anyone got a link to a good article on positive camber for beam axle cars?
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topi
Posted a lot
It's a race car officer, I swear!
Posts: 1,039
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Apr 28, 2010 11:25:03 GMT
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Urgh!
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Seth
South East
MorrisOxford TriumphMirald HillmanMinx BorgwardIsabellaCombi
Posts: 15,521
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Apr 28, 2010 11:26:58 GMT
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As far as I know its to do with the relationship between the King Pin (steering) axis and the contact patch of the tyre. I suspect that on the skinny vintage crossplies grip is not really affected especially as the relationship between axle, wheel and ground is unchanged with body roll.
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Follow your dreams or you might as well be a vegetable.
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Apr 28, 2010 11:34:41 GMT
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Apr 28, 2010 11:37:52 GMT
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Your Delica is a frog. Its wheels are legs. You're holding it in the air by its head. |
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Apr 28, 2010 11:54:08 GMT
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Your Delica is a frog. Its wheels are legs. You're holding it in the air by its head. That's hilarious! Rofl |
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Apr 28, 2010 12:01:07 GMT
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Bugatti  ERA  not so much Another Bugatti  Holy mother of.......  awesomes |
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Last Edit: Apr 28, 2010 12:35:31 GMT by suterman
1985 Bedford CF2 camper 1991 Volvo 240 Turbo |
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Apr 28, 2010 12:03:03 GMT
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IFS front with negative = early Hillman Imps
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Apr 28, 2010 13:11:03 GMT
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I'm really sick and tired of people on here always getting negative about camber. Cheers for this positive thread. ABOUT DAMNED TIME!
;D
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 Team Blitz Ford Capri parts worldwide: Restoration, Road, or Race. Used, Repro, and NOS, ranging from scabby to perfect. Itching your Capri jones since 1979! Buy, sell, trade. www.teamblitz.com blitz@teamblitz.com |
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Apr 28, 2010 13:15:33 GMT
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Your Delica is a frog. Its wheels are legs. You're holding it in the air by its head. Darn!! I can't see it! Maybe I'm just too used to looking at Delica's? I used to be rubbish at those 'magic eye' things too so maybe this doesn't help! All I see is a Delcia  |
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,716
Club RR Member Number: 34
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Positive camberDez
@dez
Club Retro Rides Member 34
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Apr 28, 2010 13:17:54 GMT
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a early car on crossplies with a beam axle should have 1-3deg pos camber and a degree or two toe in.
this afaik is down to the tyres not the actual beam suspension(although what seth says about it putting the tyre contact patch below the kingpin incline may well be part of the reason) the weave of the carcass of the tyre going the other way in the tyres makes them require different camber settings to grip/track properly.
ive driven a crossply-shod beam axle car with 1deg negative that had previously been on radials, and it was horrible. wouldnt go in a straight line, steering would slew from side to side randomly and was very heavy. we took off the axle and pressed it til it had 1deg positive, and it was absolutely fine- no other changes were made.
radial equipped cars are the opposite, they need 0 deg or 1-3deg neg.
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Last Edit: Apr 28, 2010 13:22:22 GMT by Dez
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Apr 28, 2010 13:38:20 GMT
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I also think the camber is more for the tyres than the beam axle, lots of vans had beam axles but didn't run positive camber, most lorries still do run beams.
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Volvo back as my main squeeze, more boost and some interior goodies on the way.
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Apr 28, 2010 13:47:50 GMT
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^^Unladen very heavy duty lorries with beam axles do run pos camber. It is to compensate for when they are laden, and then it zeros out, or even becomes a tad negative as weight is added to the net gross.
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Team Blitz Ford Capri parts worldwide: Restoration, Road, or Race. Used, Repro, and NOS, ranging from scabby to perfect. Itching your Capri jones since 1979! Buy, sell, trade. www.teamblitz.com blitz@teamblitz.com |
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CIH
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,466
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Apr 28, 2010 20:12:29 GMT
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MX5s with softer suspension (and thus higher rideheights) also run positive front camber to "pre-empt" negative gains on compression/bump
Positive camber goes back to the days of horse 'n' carts running large diameter spoked wheels. Positive camber would help focus the vehicle weight onto the spokes, maintaining stability and help to avoid damaging fragile wheel spokes. Early motor engineers just stuck with what they knew.
Positive camber works fairly well with cross-ply tyres because of the linear loss of grip but radials store so much energy in the sidewall it leads to a very sudden loss of grip ie; ditchfindin'.
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Last Edit: Apr 28, 2010 20:14:39 GMT by CIH
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