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Dec 31, 2005 21:12:04 GMT
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On the Honda Beat.
A mate of mine is thinking of getting one and i like the idea of small engined sports cars. Could be tempted myself.
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BS Nymph Singer Chamois Coupe Series 3 Landy
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vanpeebles
Part of things
I am eastbound in pursuit of a white Lamborghini, this is not a recording.
Posts: 980
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Dec 31, 2005 21:17:18 GMT
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best kei cars have a turbo!
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Dec 31, 2005 21:19:41 GMT
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OK dumb moment. What is Kei?
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BS Nymph Singer Chamois Coupe Series 3 Landy
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vanpeebles
Part of things
I am eastbound in pursuit of a white Lamborghini, this is not a recording.
Posts: 980
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Dec 31, 2005 21:21:41 GMT
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the honda beat is a kei car, its a special class of tiny cars in japan that get special tax benefits. they have to be a certain size and have an engine thats no bigger than 659cc. and also a stated output of 64bhp often they are higher tho
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Dec 31, 2005 21:23:44 GMT
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Cheers.
I had heard of the small cars for tax reasons in japan thing but didnt know it was called Kei.
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BS Nymph Singer Chamois Coupe Series 3 Landy
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vanpeebles
Part of things
I am eastbound in pursuit of a white Lamborghini, this is not a recording.
Posts: 980
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Dec 31, 2005 21:26:11 GMT
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my own car is one, its 659cc turbo charged, and intercooled plus 4 wheel drive. a good alternative to the honda beat is the suzuki cappuccino. its possible to tune them to 120 bhp! in a car weighing around 700kg!
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Hirst
Posted a lot
This avatar is inaccurate, I've never shaved that closely
Posts: 3,930
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Dec 31, 2005 21:32:37 GMT
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One of the Kei "ABC" cars of Japan's bubble economy (the other cars being Mazda AZ-1 and Suzuki Cappuccino). Never officially imported here but some dozens around, probably 100 or so. Unlike the other sports Kei cars (660cc engined cars of certain size restrictions) the Beat doesn't have a turbo. Torque is very low (6.1kg-m) compared to comparable engines of the time like the Daihatsu EF-JL (9.4kg-m), Suzuki F6A (8.6kg-m). That said, the engine is meant to have a certain charm to it - it's high revving like all the sports Keis and is meant to sound nice. Plus it's in the back! There's some special edition versions but they're just cosmetic, different wheels etc. Usual tuning scene is around so no problem getting aftermarket filters, exhausts, etc. off the shelf shipped from Japan. Dunno what else to say other than it has mad zebra pattern seats! Overall the owners seem to like them and I've not seen any rusty or rotten ones. Give them a look! But I'd just like to throw this in as a possible alternative because they're so unknown here, there is at least one in this country and they're ace! The Mazda AZ-1 is midengined but has the Cappuccino F6A turbo engine, it's not a soft top convertible like the Beat but it's got a targa roof and gullwing doors. Have a look at that too, if you get one of them you can be my best friend for life and lend me it on weekends. Edit: The Vanpeebles Kei brigade beats me to the scene
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Last Edit: Dec 31, 2005 21:33:32 GMT by Hirst
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Dec 31, 2005 22:07:54 GMT
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"He's not the messiah, he's a very naughty boy!"
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get alot of them on GT4
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once again rocking with 1117cc and 4 gears!
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get it bought they rock
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2001 HONDA CT110 (NOT RCV)
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imo. sorry, i cant be doing with pokey little cars. despite the technical prowess they display.
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vanpeebles
Part of things
I am eastbound in pursuit of a white Lamborghini, this is not a recording.
Posts: 980
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ill have to show you otherwise! the only thing about kei cars is they tend to be very narrow, yet theres enough head height to wear a hat and not touch the roof, and also with my seat right back i cant touch the pedals! ill have to show you!
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Hirst
Posted a lot
This avatar is inaccurate, I've never shaved that closely
Posts: 3,930
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Funnily enough though as narrow as mine is, the interior feels much less cramped than the Corsa I part-learned in and when you put it into 5th the gear stick doesn't stick into my leg - bonus! The way they all do it is by having super thin doors, you don't have all that wasted space for huge door pockets etc. so you can sit there in (relative) comfort. Don't be put off by anyone saying you've got to be dead little to fit in them either, though unlike Vanpeebles I do have the seat right back. As a general guide to the sports Keis there's a pretty much standard set of characteristics so to speak! They always have superb acceleration even from stock, the 0-60 will always be something like 8-9 seconds but the 0-20/30 is an insane rush. It's only when you get up to about 50 they start to "run out". The top speed is always low, about 85-105mph depending what it is. It's more due to them all having super short gearing than not being capable of it. The engines will always put out an (alleged) 64ps (63bhp). Given the engine size, that's about 100bhp a litre, but regardless this CAN be a bit of a lie, the engines can be anything from that to about 80bhp stock. The companies have fiddled the figures for years because one of the rules in Japan for these cars is a maximum of that output but they keep developing them to be more powerful. As a result they also try to deliberately restrict the car with curse word exhausts which they know will be off within weeks for some fancy stainless item. Any 3 Cylinder Turbo Kei should see 100bhp easily (filter, exhaust, slightly upping the boost), 150bhp with a bit of work, and some people in Japan aren't far off cracking 200bhp with mad boost levels etc. They always rev to something stupid like 8500-9500rpm too. To put into perspective how little a 660cc engine is, have a go on mine - That on the right is the battery, don't get that confused with it. Inside they're always plush, you'll always get aircon, electric windows, etc. Even in the old 80's ones you can expect stuff like that on it. That's the insides of mine, obviously it's not going to compete with some £50K Merc but them seats are real comfy and they give you a nice wood Momo wheel to spin round. Really though after all this speak, the ultimate best point is despite being insane turbocharged nuttermobiles, they'll return fantastic mpg. If you drive at 5500rpm on the motorway in 5th like I did on the way home from buying mine, you'd still be getting at least 20mpg. In my usual driving probably like 30-40mpg. My best is 58mpg. Just a great idea from Japan - I admire the way it all came about, government sets criteria to do a sub-class of little cars. Basically encourage people to have a little car with a little engine if they can. Just a dull affordable trundlebox. Manufacturers then come back with something to truly push the rules to the limit. There wasn't actually a power limit until they increased the 550cc limit to 660cc - reason being that things like the old Alto and Mira Turbos were capable of holding their own against "proper" hot hatches of the time and they were probably scared it was going to start a maximum horsepower race between the manufacturers. They're all bloody daft though.
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I always liked the honda beats when they first came out but as I remember they were pretty close to the 64bhp limit and difficult to get much more out of them.
How much is he looking to spend I am pretty sure he could get something else for the same money with a better spec.
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Hirst
Posted a lot
This avatar is inaccurate, I've never shaved that closely
Posts: 3,930
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Well a Honda Beat if I recall goes for about £3K in good condition so I can only think of one alternative.
A Suzuki Cappuccino goes for about the same - you need to be careful with rust on them though - the rear arches and sills go quite easy if you don't take care. Being turbo it's quite easy to get more power out and there's a decent range of tuning bits for them. The best bit of the car is the multiple configurations roof, you can have it as a closed hard top, T-bar, full targa and full convertible. They tend to be unmodified and in very good condition as well, usually living a life as someone's well-waxed weekend/summer car. If you can get over the slightly girly styling (just put some more sinister looking wheels on it) they seem to be superb cars. They're also the only one of the ABC cars that got imported here officially, 1000-odd. Unfortunately ours didn't have all the same options as the Japan cars but you could source these bits if you wanted them. For example ones in Japan you could get an optional LSD. These are chassis code EA11R and have an engine called F6A. There's a later model in Japan called EA21R which has a slightly redesigned engine (K6A) with a little more torque and different wheels and options like power steering but the interiors on the later ones are cheap and nasty.
The Mazda AZ-1 is much rarer here, I haven't seen one up for sale for years but I reckon they'd be more like £4-5K anyway, so I wouldn't want to put that up as an alternative to be honest.
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an LSD?
seriously?
plan forming!
hell yeah!
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Hirst
Posted a lot
This avatar is inaccurate, I've never shaved that closely
Posts: 3,930
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