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Oct 31, 2009 18:35:08 GMT
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I've been to look at a Morris 1300 which has been sat for many years in a garage - it's sound in body, but the suspension has leaked over the years and it's now 'on its knees' or so to speak. Will it pump back up after all this time? How would that happen? Is it worth the effort? ;D Thankyou. Edit: Re-awoken thread. Finally tracked down the seller (again!) and found out that not only is it a virtually rot-free ADO16, it's actually a Vanden Plas. With a brand new rear subframe. So the question is, will it gently tow home the thirty miles or so, or should I be looking at pumping the suspension up or finding a trailer? In true justanotherhigh spirit, I've been out and bought a donor car already so if things don't go to plan, I've got a good engine, box, and front suspension setup. Any thoughts, guys?
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"A Pierburg carb? It would be more economical to replace it with a funnel..."
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Oct 31, 2009 18:37:54 GMT
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Hydragas/hydrolastic can go flat over a period of time, it just kinda leaks out. If its taken a good number of years to deflate then id imagine a pump up woulod remedy the situation, provided nothing has corroded and has holes in. Ive got a pump if you ever need to use it...
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1987 Maestro 1.6 HL perkins diesel conversion 1986 Audi 100 Avant 1800cc on LPG 1979 Allegro Series 2 special 4 door 1500cc with vynil roof. IN BITS. HERITAGE ISSUES.
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Oct 31, 2009 19:34:18 GMT
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Hydragas/hydrolastic can go flat over a period of time, it just kinda leaks out. If its taken a good number of years to deflate then id imagine a pump up woulod remedy the situation, provided nothing has corroded and has holes in. Ive got a pump if you ever need to use it... So what would I be pumping into it? Is it air, or gas, or fluid, or what? If it pumps up, then goes down again, are the parts around to sort it, do you think? ;D Cheers feller.
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"A Pierburg carb? It would be more economical to replace it with a funnel..."
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Oct 31, 2009 19:44:58 GMT
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Its fluid, a mixture of alcohol and water. I just mix antifreeze and water and use that. If it goes down again any one of the conponents can be faulty, the filling valve, the displacer units but the most likely culprets seem to be corroded pipework.
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1987 Maestro 1.6 HL perkins diesel conversion 1986 Audi 100 Avant 1800cc on LPG 1979 Allegro Series 2 special 4 door 1500cc with vynil roof. IN BITS. HERITAGE ISSUES.
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Oct 31, 2009 20:25:06 GMT
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Isn't it nitrogen gas in the displacers themselves? Like a Citroen-system, if the gas also leaks out, the ride can be bouncy and horrible. But as for fluid, as mentioned, you can pump it up yourself. The pressures are very, very high but I've used a converted grease gun before.
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1986 Citroen 2CV Dolly Other things. Check out my Blog for the latest! www.hubnut.org
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Oct 31, 2009 20:55:12 GMT
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Dollywobbler, you are right in that the spheres on hydragas systems are filled with Nitrogen but if the nitrogen is lost from a displacer unit the suspension wont collapse on that side like it would if the system had a fluid leak. I think they only drop by a couple of inches or so.
I think a Morris 1300 would have a hydralastic system. That system used rubber in place of the nitrogen (I think) so the only thing to leak on a system like this would be the fluid.
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1987 Maestro 1.6 HL perkins diesel conversion 1986 Audi 100 Avant 1800cc on LPG 1979 Allegro Series 2 special 4 door 1500cc with vynil roof. IN BITS. HERITAGE ISSUES.
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Oct 31, 2009 21:12:40 GMT
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Yeah, hydrolastic would be fitted. Anyway, between us I think we've made the point that it's worth saving. Pics please! ;D
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1986 Citroen 2CV Dolly Other things. Check out my Blog for the latest! www.hubnut.org
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Oct 31, 2009 21:30:11 GMT
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Haha. Thankyou all. Pics will be on after removing it from its 20+ year incarceration indoors ;D
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"A Pierburg carb? It would be more economical to replace it with a funnel..."
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Oct 31, 2009 22:36:26 GMT
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As has been pointed out, the fluid is water with antifreeze. Back in the day you could buy a special antifreeze for hydroelastic suspension, it might be worth finding if it's still available. There is a special pump to do it, the system has to be purged to vacuum before refilling. Yet again back in the day every garage had one, nowadays they might be a bit rare. ISTR someone on here restoring one though so you might be in luck. It is possible to do it without the pump - we managed it with Allegros - but it means a LOT of bleeding and purging with water. We made our hydro pump from a brake master cylinder. As has been pointed out the 1100 had hydroelastic rather than hydrogas, the difference being a rubber spring rather than compressed nitrogen. The pipes, if they are the plated steel kind, will have rusted through, and that's probably why it's sitting on its rubbers. We found Acorn plastic plumbing would take the pressure on Allegros, the advantage being that it doesn't rust. At one point we had an Allegro 1100 with variable ride height. Will an Austin/Morris 1100 be saveable after 20 years in storage? Only one way to find out! Is it worth it? Definitely! They are rather nice cars to drive. Shame they're one massive rust trap
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Last Edit: Oct 31, 2009 22:37:19 GMT by herald948
"Jeremy Clarkson, a man we motor enthusiasts need on our side like Lewis Hamilton's F1 car needs a towing ball and a Sprite Musketeer" My motor
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Oct 31, 2009 22:47:16 GMT
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You can still get the kosher fluid from motor factors (MGF's use it) it costs about £18 for 5 litres. I just use antifreeze and water.
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1974 Lancia Beta Saloon 1975 Mazda 929 Coupé 1986 Mazda 929 Wagon 1979 Mazda 929 Hardtop 1982 Fiat Argenta 2.0 iniezione elettronica 1977 Toyota Carina TA14 1989 Subaru 1800 Wagon 1982 Hyundai Pony 1200TL 2-dr 1985 Hyundai Pony 1200 GL 1986 Maserati 425 Biturbo 1992 Rover 214 SEi 5-dr 2000 Rover 45 V6 Club 1994 Peugeot 205 'Junior' Diesel 1988 Volvo 760 Turbodiesel Saloon 1992 Talbot Express Autosleeper Rambler 2003 Renault Laguna SPEARS OR REAPERS
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Oct 31, 2009 22:50:58 GMT
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i was gonna say ive seen new bottles of this stuff in smaller motorfactors quite recently.... allways see it on market stalls too....
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robg2
Part of things
Posts: 815
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***long post alert!***
If the car's been standing for a long time then it might have lost fluid through gradual leakage - sometimes they do this, especially if the unions on the front-to-rear hydrolastic pipes have ever been disturbed. If so then it's an easy job to get it pumped up again, which is something that many independant garages can still do as the fluid and equipment is the same as used in MGFs.
Unfortunately it's also likely that the hydrolastic pipes have corroded through and will have to be replaced. To do this you theoretically have to drop both subframes, which isn't too complicated but involves several axle stands and trolley jacks. It sounds hard but all is not lost, as nowadays people do away with the original design pipes and fit flexi-hoses instead, which can be fitted without dropping frames and are a much better long-term fix.
In any case you'll have to drive the car somewhere to get it pumped-up, but you can drive them (carefully) on the bumpstops.
And... If you've found an 1100 without significant rust then you're lucky and should buy it! As a rule of thumb, it's worthwhile if the following are sound: 'trumpet panels' (front inner wings) inner / outer sills all 10 subframe mounting areas the box section behind the dashboard I'll send you some info if you want help on this - you need to know what you're looking at.
Also bear in mind - FR wings and front panels are very expensive and it could take months to find them; rear subframes are very prone to rust but are obtainable and not difficult to replace; hardly any repair panels were ever available - don't expect MGB style availability.
Also routinely replace the following on any 1100 project car: all 10 subframe mounts - handling can be wayward on old mounts driveshaft inner joints - can break easily on pre '73 cars engine mounts the mount between the gearbox and the long aluminium extension if that's what your car has
And you'll have to get used to the following: exhaust breaking or dropping off regularly ball joints that wear quickly but can be adjusted if you're patient 12" tyres only and no chance to change rims low gearing some parts are hard to find - such as driveshafts for post '72 cars and replacement hydrolastic units in good condition.
I make it sound a bit bad don't I? But 1100s are great, rare now but fondly remembered by a large part of the population (you'll make new friends). They're very usable for a 60's car, easy to drive and plenty of space. It's also a remarkably good drive for the period, with more grip and better handling than you might expect (although the ride can be bouncy on certain roads). Much better than comparable 60's saloons though. I've had several 1100s and still have 2 now. I've done numerous rallies and trackdays in them and always found them to be a hoot and surprisingly capable. Sadly there are not many left, so as long as you don't mind some effort then I'd definitely go for it!
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Last Edit: Nov 2, 2009 12:14:48 GMT by robg2
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robg2
Part of things
Posts: 815
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Ps Hydrolastic = rubber springs with integral fluid dampers, with the damper chambers linked front to rear on each side Hydragas = same as above but gas instead of rubber springs
Gas springs were used instead of rubber as they could be manufactured more consistently.
Interlinking side-to-side gives anti pitch and anti roll characteristics. It's the same concept as Citroen 2CV (but not hydropneumatic), and people like Lotus and Honda have fiddled with it at times.
Hydrolastic: Mk 2 Mini 1100 1800 Austin 3 Litre (plus self levelling)
Hydragas: Aggro Maxi Princess / Ambassador (I think) Metro - but not interlinked (I think) MGF (but not MG-TF)
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jonw
Part of things
Can open a Mouse with a File
Posts: 768
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Have pumped a hydro mini back up after 20+ years sat de-flated. The displacers are bomb proof on this system. The problems are usally rotten pipework and shrader valves that don't seal. Both can be remadied with a little work. Most older garages will have a hydro pump and some fluid this is not anti freeze but a special fluid for the hydro systems... it is bright green!!! In addition to the list above: Hydro Elastic Mk1 Mini Mk3 Mini Mini Clubman Hydro Gas Rover 100 (K series metro) Have a look here www.hydragas.co.uk/technical.html
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Suzuki SV650R The good Triumph T20 The Bad BMW G650GS The Ugly Matchless G12CSR The Smokey Toyota Hybrid One pint or Two?
Ingredients of this post Spam Drunken Rambling of author Bad spelling Drunken ramblings of inner voices Occasional pointless comments Vile beef trimming they won't even use in stock cubes
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Didn't the Maxi start Hydrolastic and turn Hydragas? Not sure about the Mk3 Mini - thought all Minis reverted to rubber in 1969. Similarly, 1959-1964 Mk1 Minis were rubber.
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1986 Citroen 2CV Dolly Other things. Check out my Blog for the latest! www.hubnut.org
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jonw
Part of things
Can open a Mouse with a File
Posts: 768
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No- the early Clubby and Mk3's were hydro. Didn't revert to 'dry' suspension until the early to mid '70's
59-64 mini's were dry. 64-67 mk1's were hydro. The Mk2 was all hydro and made from 67 till 69.
The exceptions are the van, clubman estate and and pickup which never got hydro.
I think the system on the mini was underrated. Have driven a hydro mk1 and it is the best riding mini I have ever driven. Covers bumps well and dosen't roll too much.
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Suzuki SV650R The good Triumph T20 The Bad BMW G650GS The Ugly Matchless G12CSR The Smokey Toyota Hybrid One pint or Two?
Ingredients of this post Spam Drunken Rambling of author Bad spelling Drunken ramblings of inner voices Occasional pointless comments Vile beef trimming they won't even use in stock cubes
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Oh well. Guess the book I've got is wrong (it's certainly not always right!). Says 1971, so I was still talking rot!
I have driven a Hydrolastic Cooper Mk1 and was very impressed. Still a long way from 2CV comfort but an uneven country lane is much more enjoyable!
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1986 Citroen 2CV Dolly Other things. Check out my Blog for the latest! www.hubnut.org
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'Tros are a bit strange, A series engined ones have individual front and linked rears, K series ones have links front to rear each side. Best way is to individualise the whole lot...... BTW, I have a proper pump if anyone needs a trim up....
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Rover Metro - The TARDIS - brake problems.....Stored Rover 75 - Barge MGZTT Cdti 160+ - Winter Hack and Audi botherer... MGF - The Golden Shot...Stored Project Minion........ Can you see the theme?
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Thread re-awoken many months later.... help, anyone?
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"A Pierburg carb? It would be more economical to replace it with a funnel..."
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Mar 23, 2010 10:36:55 GMT
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I drive mine this low daily - And a comparison of a standard wheel, just to give you a better idea how low it is... Theres about 10mm clearance to bumpstops all round, and the only problem i've had in 14k is decking the subframe out once on a pothole. Provided you drive carefully and avoid huge bumps and potholes, I'd say its safe to drive/tow home. I'd probably stick below 40 mph though. As said, they're a cracking little car, depending on when the VDP was built it may well be fitted with a rear anti roll bar as standard, it may not. If not I'd advise fitting one, if you can get hold of one. Rear assister springs occasionally break, signified by a clunk from the back end. These are only fitted to adjust the rear trim height of the car, and can be removed if broken without any ill effect. The VDP will also be fitted with a cooper spec engine as standard, the addition of a free flowing exhaust will make it into quite a nippy machine. They handle very well, even on standard 145 tyres, though I'd suggest a move to 165/70 R12 if the budget allows for it and you're sticking with standard wheels. Standard wheels are 4.5J 4x4.5"pcd 59mm offset, so there arent a lot of wheels can be fitted without serious archwork. Check also the condition of the petrol tank carefully, as these are expensive when available on ebay, and mega expensive from Earlpart, who seem to be the only company producing many parts for the ADO16. ( www.earlpart.co.uk) EBC brake pads are certainly a worthwhile improvement, and, if the car has mk2/3 swinging type brake callipers, make sure the calliper swings freely on the pivot. Check under the rear seat for rust around the top of the rear subframe mounting, this is impossible to see from under the car. The seat is removed by a single nut in the centre, then pulled forward and out. the nut is either 7/16" or 1/2" depending on the year of the car. As said, wings and front panels are very expensive, so bear that in mind when viewing. If you need any spares, I've got a garage full, give us a shout and I'll see what I can do. I'd also advise you to join www.ado16forums.info, a wealth of knowledge on there, although modifications are kind of a 'marmite' thing. If you need any help feel free to ask (Edited to fix pics)
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Last Edit: Mar 23, 2010 11:06:07 GMT by chris1300
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