spiny
Club Retro Rides Member
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I am abivalent towards car electrics ...
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Club RR Member Number: 167
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1970 MG Midget 1275spiny
@spiny
Club Retro Rides Member 167
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blown away by your welding skills! never thought I'd ever hear anyone say that thanks still lots to do - need to weatherproof the foorwells by refitting all the rubber bungs and sealing the welds, thwen I can carpet them. still need to bleed the brakes properly got to wire up the front lights fit a heater seatbelts seats and small things like door pulls etc it'll be ready for next summer
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spiny
Club Retro Rides Member
Wiki Admin
I am abivalent towards car electrics ...
Posts: 1,331
Club RR Member Number: 167
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1970 MG Midget 1275spiny
@spiny
Club Retro Rides Member 167
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had a spare hour earlier and decided to finally sort out the alternator wiring. the MG came with a dynamo, the engine I fitted (out of a marina) has an alternator. various guides on the net attempted to explain what goes where, but never seemed to apply to the wires I had, then last month someone wrote into PC with the same problem and they printed a handy guide. so various wires joined together: led onto a working ign light which also went out when the engine ran I couldn't find my meter, so I am just going to assume that it is charging properly a happy by product of this is that the rev counter sprung into life too - no idea why unless it uses some aspect of the charging system ? I'm just happy it works also managed to fit the weather strip on the passenger side as well:
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Nice. Just watch for using LED's on those older alternators, as the miniscule current an LED can pass can cause some funny effects on the hold-off circuit. Usually can solve that by bridging the LED with a resistor though, to bring the circuit back a little more like the filament bulb it originally had, but retaining the better light characteristics of the LED. If you scavenge some newer holders rather than the screw-in ones I know Motaman in Bedminster had white LED's in a P5W housing that fit the gauge illumination a few years back, those work a treat in these old Smiths gauges as they shine onto turquoise paint inside which gives them a very eerie glow. Watch putting a blue LED in the high beam lamp though else it'll dazzle you at night (been there done that, had to modify the circuit lol) - basically the entire dash can be outfitted with LED's to excellent effect without detracting from the original external look.
Build continues to be great! Enjoying watching it progress.
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spiny
Club Retro Rides Member
Wiki Admin
I am abivalent towards car electrics ...
Posts: 1,331
Club RR Member Number: 167
|
1970 MG Midget 1275spiny
@spiny
Club Retro Rides Member 167
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Nice. Just watch for using LED's on those older alternators, as the miniscule current an LED can pass can cause some funny effects on the hold-off circuit. Usually can solve that by bridging the LED with a resistor though, to bring the circuit back a little more like the filament bulb it originally had, but retaining the better light characteristics of the LED. If you scavenge some newer holders rather than the screw-in ones I know Motaman in Bedminster had white LED's in a P5W housing that fit the gauge illumination a few years back, those work a treat in these old Smiths gauges as they shine onto turquoise paint inside which gives them a very eerie glow. Watch putting a blue LED in the high beam lamp though else it'll dazzle you at night (been there done that, had to modify the circuit lol) - basically the entire dash can be outfitted with LED's to excellent effect without detracting from the original external look. Build continues to be great! Enjoying watching it progress. ah, I meant led as in past tense of lead, not a LED, but retro fitting LEDs, now theres an idea cheers
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lol, read this last night on my laptop that doesn't fit everything onto the screen at once, so missed the tense Yeah, the tacho needs a +12v feed, the feed from the coil and a good ground via the dash to work. If the light goes out hard and stays out once you get the engine over about 1200-1400rpm after start, it should be good. Bad earths to the tacho will cause strange things to happen, and the contacts to the back of the dash can be poor if they've been disturbed or damp. (Typical Smiths/Lucas/BMC combination). Just watch the black paint on the dash as it cracks, peels and flakes off in big chunks if you clip it at the edges, and is a pain to have to redo. --Phil
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spiny
Club Retro Rides Member
Wiki Admin
I am abivalent towards car electrics ...
Posts: 1,331
Club RR Member Number: 167
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1970 MG Midget 1275spiny
@spiny
Club Retro Rides Member 167
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lol, read this last night on my laptop that doesn't fit everything onto the screen at once, so missed the tense Yeah, the tacho needs a +12v feed, the feed from the coil and a good ground via the dash to work. If the light goes out hard and stays out once you get the engine over about 1200-1400rpm after start, it should be good. Bad earths to the tacho will cause strange things to happen, and the contacts to the back of the dash can be poor if they've been disturbed or damp. (Typical Smiths/Lucas/BMC combination). Just watch the black paint on the dash as it cracks, peels and flakes off in big chunks if you clip it at the edges, and is a pain to have to redo. --Phil cool how easy is it to get the clocks out ? I've had a brief look and I'm not really sure. I need to change the water and oil guages as the new engine has electric senders not capillary ones - but I don't want to break anything
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Nathan
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 5,650
Club RR Member Number: 1
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1970 MG Midget 1275Nathan
@bgtmidget7476
Club Retro Rides Member 1
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Clock are dead simple, there is small nuts on the back which hold the retainers on, simply unbolt them and the clock will pop out. As for the senders these should just route back through the bulthead.
Is your duel one working still (oil/water) if so don't suppose you want to sell it do you.
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spiny
Club Retro Rides Member
Wiki Admin
I am abivalent towards car electrics ...
Posts: 1,331
Club RR Member Number: 167
|
1970 MG Midget 1275spiny
@spiny
Club Retro Rides Member 167
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Clock are dead simple, there is small nuts on the back which hold the retainers on, simply unbolt them and the clock will pop out. As for the senders these should just route back through the bulthead. Is your duel one working still (oil/water) if so don't suppose you want to sell it do you. sa far as I know, it was working when the car was parked up, but the old engine hasn't run since, so not been able to check. if the new water guage i have works, then I might consider selling it
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spiny
Club Retro Rides Member
Wiki Admin
I am abivalent towards car electrics ...
Posts: 1,331
Club RR Member Number: 167
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1970 MG Midget 1275spiny
@spiny
Club Retro Rides Member 167
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no pics, but does anyone know how the heater blower switches on ? the heater pull thing pulls out and appears to rotate, but 12v isn't getting to the fan (which does work )
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To turn the fan on, the heater knob has to be pushed in all the way, and should rotate to the right with a gentle clunk when in this position. Shouldn't turn more than about 30 degrees, the housings do get worn though and the whole thing will have a tendency to shift if you twist it.
Pulled out it should close the vent flap on the front of the heater box, and unless it's fully in, it won't rotate to turn the motor on as it gets caught up on the hex splines to prevent this.
The switches get all cacky inside as the current they take is quite high- on mine I have to somewhat violently switch it on and off a few times before the heater blower starts to spin, usually speeds up with subsequent switchings.
If you're planning on being able to use it reliably, I'd highly recommend wiring it through a relay.
--Phil
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Last Edit: Oct 11, 2009 2:50:27 GMT by PhilA
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spiny
Club Retro Rides Member
Wiki Admin
I am abivalent towards car electrics ...
Posts: 1,331
Club RR Member Number: 167
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1970 MG Midget 1275spiny
@spiny
Club Retro Rides Member 167
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Oct 12, 2009 14:45:57 GMT
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cool, I have bought a few nice looking switches off ebay, so will wire it ip to a separate swiitch with a relay, and just keep the original for moving the flap word on the street is that it's a good idea to use a relay for the brake light switch too, as the new ones are not as 'robust' as the originals ?
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Oct 12, 2009 20:35:54 GMT
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Hadn't heard that, but mine's still working since '69 lol
Doesn't hurt to reduce the amount of current that has to pass through any Lucas wiring by any degree at all! (Found that heavier gauge wires to the stock headlamps through a relay, using only the original wires to trigger the relay made driving at night a much more pleasant experience. By default the headlamps come on yellow, with good gauge wire from the battery they come on white...)
--Phil
...always plenty of things to do on a Sprite!
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spiny
Club Retro Rides Member
Wiki Admin
I am abivalent towards car electrics ...
Posts: 1,331
Club RR Member Number: 167
|
1970 MG Midget 1275spiny
@spiny
Club Retro Rides Member 167
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Hadn't heard that, but mine's still working since '69 lol Doesn't hurt to reduce the amount of current that has to pass through any Lucas wiring by any degree at all! (Found that heavier gauge wires to the stock headlamps through a relay, using only the original wires to trigger the relay made driving at night a much more pleasant experience. By default the headlamps come on yellow, with good gauge wire from the battery they come on white...) --Phil ...always plenty of things to do on a Sprite! I have plenty of relays that I've kept from cars I've scrapped over the years, so I may as well put them ti good use I've seen a 'how to' on relaying the headlights, so I'll do that too. My job this week is to try and get every electrical device (that is currently fitted ) working
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Nathan
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 5,650
Club RR Member Number: 1
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1970 MG Midget 1275Nathan
@bgtmidget7476
Club Retro Rides Member 1
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Oct 13, 2009 11:22:37 GMT
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My advice would be to relay most stuff on it.
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Oct 13, 2009 13:28:15 GMT
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My advice would be to relay most stuff on it. Yup, about the only thing you can't really relay with the standard equipment is the indicators, they'll just sit on with the standard bimetallic blinker. Plus, it's a shame to install a modern 'tik-tok-tik-tok' relay to replace the noise those make on the bulkhead 'pik-tung.. pik-tung... pik-tung...' lol It'd probably be very worth it to install a fusebox with relays in the spot where the battery used to be, seeing as a large proportion of the wiring passes through the grommet by the master cylinders and is easy to route there. It's a bit of expenditure, but so very, very worth the effort if you're planning on the vehicle being all-seasons useable. Oh, and by the way, if the wipers don't self-park themselves, don't go to Moss for a replacement switch as they charge through the nose- the contact lubricant inside the switch turns to jelly goop over the years and stops the contacts from working. Plus that cream-white plastic everything on the car's made from has a tendency to get real brittle with age and crumble. It is possible to take the park switch apart, clean it and put it back together again. Just have a couple tubes of Araldite handy... --Phil
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spiny
Club Retro Rides Member
Wiki Admin
I am abivalent towards car electrics ...
Posts: 1,331
Club RR Member Number: 167
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1970 MG Midget 1275spiny
@spiny
Club Retro Rides Member 167
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Oct 13, 2009 15:23:17 GMT
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My advice would be to relay most stuff on it. Yup, about the only thing you can't really relay with the standard equipment is the indicators, they'll just sit on with the standard bimetallic blinker. Plus, it's a shame to install a modern 'tik-tok-tik-tok' relay to replace the noise those make on the bulkhead 'pik-tung.. pik-tung... pik-tung...' lol It'd probably be very worth it to install a fusebox with relays in the spot where the battery used to be, seeing as a large proportion of the wiring passes through the grommet by the master cylinders and is easy to route there. It's a bit of expenditure, but so very, very worth the effort if you're planning on the vehicle being all-seasons useable. Oh, and by the way, if the wipers don't self-park themselves, don't go to Moss for a replacement switch as they charge through the nose- the contact lubricant inside the switch turns to jelly goop over the years and stops the contacts from working. Plus that cream-white plastic everything on the car's made from has a tendency to get real brittle with age and crumble. It is possible to take the park switch apart, clean it and put it back together again. Just have a couple tubes of Araldite handy... --Phil cool I have already moved the battery to the boot, so have space, I've also binned the old fuse box and added a new blade style one from autoelectricsupplies. I need to mount it somewhwere, so a backing board with the relays is probably as good a place as anywhere one question though: nearly all the 'bullet' connectors are crusty and knackered, i want to replace them, but that means chopping an inch off each 'end' to gte to shiny copper wire, so the new wire would be too short. what do you guys do ? connector blocks would be untidy. I would solder on extra pieces of wire, but at the moment I only have one colour and that would just get confusing
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Oct 13, 2009 16:14:28 GMT
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If you only have to chop an inch off each end then you're doing well to get to shiny copper with Lucas wires lol
What you can do is lop the bullet off, strip the wire back and dip it in solder flux and heat it gently with a blowtorch but take care not to overheat it or you'll melt the plastic- but that should take a lot of the oxides off. You don't want to dip the ends in too much of the way of acids etc because the capillary effect will draw the acid up into the wire and eat away at the plastic insulation. You can then usually either solder or crimp on some proper connectors- more modern ones from equivalent parts of a modern car's loom are pretty good because the connectors are usually damp-resistant. If you're not totally concerned about originality then you can easily go that route- pull the front end loom from a newer car and do it that way, but then you still can fall foul of manufacturers putting thin gauge wiring in for stuff like headlamps. Case of what you can find.
Ideally you'd want to be running the original wires to the relay box only to trigger the relays anyway- don't rely upon the original wires, especially for the headlamps to be able to provide adequate current. Even over the distance they run, combining the bad connectors and relatively high resistance of the wire, under load you'd be seeing maybe 9-11 volts at the bulb which quite dramatically reduces its output. A healthy 14.2 from that alternator setup will improve things too.
Failing that I went to Quantoc down in Bedminster and got myself a few spools of different coloured wire to use. the BL colours are available but expensive, I just got little zipties with a tag on them and labelled them with a permanent pen.
RS (So probably Maplin too) have relay holders that snap into a metal sheet- I made a very smart fusebox for our forklift at work with a bit of alu plate and some rivets, with the fuseholders flush in the top (gotta cut out an odd shape to fit the things but with ally that's nice and easy), all soldered in behind so you just plug off-the-shelf relays in, no Lucar connectors, no mess, all nice and tidy and it keeps push-on connections to a minimum. Looks factory too.
Oh, and whatever you do, don't be tempted to loom the things with electrical tape. Get non-sticky looming tape. You won't regret it.
--Phil
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Last Edit: Oct 13, 2009 16:23:25 GMT by PhilA
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spiny
Club Retro Rides Member
Wiki Admin
I am abivalent towards car electrics ...
Posts: 1,331
Club RR Member Number: 167
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1970 MG Midget 1275spiny
@spiny
Club Retro Rides Member 167
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good call on the proper tape turns out I can't solder for feck though, so I'm going to need to practice a bit before soldering wires to the new switches I have, I can't seem to find the right amount of time to heat the tag, I'm either too fast and nothing sticks, or too slow and the entire switch assembly heats up, melts, and shorts internally :/ ah well, I learnt to weld, so soldering should be easier right ?
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Oct 14, 2009 13:30:23 GMT
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If you can, use a pair of needle-nose pliers between the top of the tag and the switch, that'll act as a heatsink and stop the heat getting to the internals of the thing so much.
Soldering is fairly easy to get to grips with once you see how the heat spreads and the metal flows- same with welding, it's mostly in the prep and workarea- if it's cold and drafty your solder joints will come out curse word if you've got a soldering iron that's rated below 20 Watts or so.
Practice does indeed make perfect, keep at it. A few scorched fingers and the smell of molten solder burning old oily carpet does you a world of good on a cold winter's morning lol
--Phil
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spiny
Club Retro Rides Member
Wiki Admin
I am abivalent towards car electrics ...
Posts: 1,331
Club RR Member Number: 167
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1970 MG Midget 1275spiny
@spiny
Club Retro Rides Member 167
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Oct 14, 2009 22:11:56 GMT
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approached it in a calmer less hurried state of mind tonight and managed to get one switch soldered up and working excuse the not lined up at all holes, this is a 'test' install I'm putting three switches in and two 'push to make' switches. the push to make will be washer jets and horn, one switch will be the heater fan, another will probably be for the spotlight on the back bumper (don't want it wired to the reversing lamps) and a spare switch I've added LEDs for each switch, just beacuse I like LEDs this is the basic circuit, the switch pulls the realy, whcih powers the horn/heater/etc
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