smile
Part of things
snappin' necks and cashin' cheques
Posts: 84
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Jun 27, 2009 20:46:52 GMT
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Well, I'm definitly not having much luck with this car. After sending my mechanic on a wild goose chase for the mysterious overheating problem, being assured it wasn't the head gasket after a litmus test, and eventually spending out on a new radiator. It would appear the head gasket is sadly no longer with us.. I'm loosing coolant, the radiator cap is overly pressurised, the oil is very runny and I'm beginning to see the beginnings of mayonnaise on the oil filler cap. SUPER!
Anyway there's no way I'm paying out more money to the mechanic so soon and I've got a long summer so I'm gonna give it a go myself! Probably be a steep learning curve seeing as this is the first car I've serviced myself and I've only done that once, but I've got the workshop manual here and it's got all the instructions so hopefully it's just a case of taking my time and following them.
My main question to you knowledgable folks is, whilst I'm going to all this trouble, what else is worth replacing apart from the head gasket itself? I've heard mention of stem seals? tensioners? How far should I go with this bareing in mind my ability. I don't mind spending out on replacing other parts that I'm likely to run into trouble with in the future as long as they're not too hard to fit and don't cost silly money (unless they really are vital). Technically I'll be saving on the mechanics bill after all.
The car has 136,000 on the clock roughly. Seems to drive okay and not use too much oil, but in reality I really do know nothing about a healthy engine so I'd rather be safe. The engine is in a '84 Merc 230CE, so a 2.3 M102.980 with K-Jetronic fuel injection according to wikipedia!
Does anyone have experience with these engines? If you can offer ANY advice and tips, seriously even the most basic things will probably help me. Or if you think I'm biting off way more than I can chew then go ahead and say it, I won't be offended.
Ontop of that, is there anyone willing to essentially be my mentor? Someone I can message or email as a first port of call when I'm stuck instead of littering the forum with silly questions?
OR if I'm REALLY lucky and there's somone out there local to Bromley, Kent who'd be willing to help out for some beer that'd be even better!
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Feelin' high as hell, flyin' through Palmdale, skatin' on Dayton rims
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Taking on a Merc head gasketBenzBoy
@benzboy
Club Retro Rides Member 7
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Jun 27, 2009 22:58:55 GMT
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Sorry to hear of your woes mate. I'm not familiar with the M102 engines but I'll bet that they have internal hex head bolts. If so, get yourself a decent 1/2in or 3/8in drive (whichever you prefer) 8mm allen socket (I think it's 8mm... double check that...). I bought a Snap On one off eBay for the 450 V8 I was working on, and even then it started to round off. The bolts are mega-tight (as you'd expect from head bolts) and getting them to shift can be a real pain. You could do the stem seals but I'll bet they're the pressed-in sort, and maybe a bit tricky to replace? Again, double check as I'm just going off generic Mercedes knowledge rather than the specifics of the M102 engine. If I remember rightly the 6-cylinders tended to eat through stem seals but I haven't heard of the 4-cylinders doing so. If it didn't puff out any blue smoke I'd be inclined to leave them be unless it looks like an easy job. Check the overhead camshaft oil gallery pipes. On the V8 these clog up, and the plastic fitments break down. This means accelerated camshaft wear... I've seen this first hand. If your engine has this set-up, it's really easy to just unplug the oil gallery tube fitments and give it them a good clean. If any of the plastic bits are in bad shape / broken you can get replacements from MB as far as I'm aware. Might be tempted to do timing chain and chain guides whilst the head's off. Although at 136k I'd have thought that they would still have loads of life left in them. Maybe just visually inspect the chain guides - some are aluminium with a rubber guide which tend to hold up well, but others are made of this weird amber plastic that looks like the same stuff you find on tortoise-shell framed sunglasses at the beach for two quid a pop, and they go brittle over time. Again though, if it all looks OK and isn't rattling I wouldn't worry too much. Also, again, I don't know what the specifics are with the M102. I'm assuming you're getting a complete head set with rocker gasket, inlet gasket etc... if not, you'll need at least the rocker gasket. If you have any questions just PM me. There may be someone more knowledgeable on here who has done the job / worked on the M102 who could be more helpful, but if I can help, I will. If you were nearer I'd muck in with the spannering! ;D Good luck with it mate.
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smile
Part of things
snappin' necks and cashin' cheques
Posts: 84
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Jun 29, 2009 17:13:48 GMT
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Cheers for all that info Dean! Even the generic Merc info is useful to me. Been doing lots of info hunting on the net since I posted so I'm a little more clued up on things, athough I haven't touched the engine yet so so far all I have are other peoples words. It seems the M102's do have a bit of a rep for going at the head gasket... which is strange because I can't find a single guide on the net! Found a few guides for the M103 engine though so that must be even worse haha (it's here if anyone wants it: www.mbclub.co.uk/forums/howto/63184-howto-change-head-gasket-12v-3ltr-m103-2.html)I'm hoping there'll be quite a lot of similarities between these engines, and if anything I'll have a pleasant suprise seeing as mine seems to be a much simpler engine (shouldn't have to remove the rad etc). I've also emailed the guy who wrote it to see if he has any tips or advice regarding the M102 or knows of any speicfic differences between engines that I should be aware of. I'll be heading down to Mercedes tomorrow to get it all priced up. Think it would be waaay cheaper from eurocarparts but apparently MB have made significant changes to the head gasket design to reduce the liklihood of failure again so it's not really worth screwing around for me this time as I don't want to do this twice! I'll keep y'all posted!
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Feelin' high as hell, flyin' through Palmdale, skatin' on Dayton rims
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Potter
Part of things
'E who dares wins,eh Rodders??!
Posts: 304
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Jun 29, 2009 17:44:45 GMT
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No help on Merc specific bits from me mate. Just some encouragement. Take it easy,follow the instructions and when it all gets a bit too much go inside for a cuppa/sedative as needed!;D
Good luck and congrats for having the guts to do it yourself!
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More cars than sense or money!🙄
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Taking on a Merc head gasketBenzBoy
@benzboy
Club Retro Rides Member 7
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Jun 29, 2009 18:36:40 GMT
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You might be pleasantly surprised at the price of a Mercedes head gasket. Stuff like that tends to be reasonable, it's the more obscure parts that cost as they have to ship them from Germany or even have them made specifically, like they said would be required for a flasher unit for mine! Mercedes tend to find a good way of doing things and stick to it, so a lot of the stuff is very similar from one car to the next. For example, the headlight switch in my W115 can be found in pretty much every Mercedes right up to the C-class, if not beyond! ;D Best of luck with it mate, I'm sure it'll all go fine.
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smile
Part of things
snappin' necks and cashin' cheques
Posts: 84
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...well I feel pretty bloody stupid right now.
Its looks as if I jumped the gun announcing the death of the head gasket. Obviously I've not been taking the car on long drives since thinking the head gasket was blown, but I have had to use it for short journeys like picking up the new parts from MB etc.
It suddenly dawned on me that the car hasn't been showing any difference in performance, running temperatures, oil pressure (which is pretty rubbish anyway). I've been checking the coolant and it hasn't been loosing much if any. There was still the mayo on the Oil filler cap but it hasn't collected any more since I first noticed it, and the dipstick oil seems fine too.
I took it for a longer run yesterday as a test and it drove fine!
So I can only assume there must've been a pretty big air lock somewhere in the system which resulted in what looked like the loss of coolant. This probably let the engine get pretty hot which is why the oil seemed so runny. And I guess the mayo on the cap is just a small trace of water that had got in there at some point.
I won't say I'm totally out of the woods yet, but the car will be heading North to Retford with me later today so that will be the test.
Like I said, I feel like a right fool. Especially seeing as I've already bought £120's worth of bits from MB! I think I just jumped into it because I have a habit of procrastinating rather than doing, and part of me still does really want to get stuck in on some engine work.
So the question is, are MB likely to refund me for this stuff? I'd kind of assumed they wouldn't, and I'm not too bothered as I plan to keep this car for quite a while longer so chances are, and from what I've read, I WILL need to do the head gasket at some point. In which case it's not really wasted money as I doubt the parts are likely to get cheaper any time soon.
Sorry for wasting everyones time with this. Especially Dean (BenzBoy) because you've given me a fair bit of advice in this topic. Hopefully it'll prove useful to others in the future though... and myself!
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Feelin' high as hell, flyin' through Palmdale, skatin' on Dayton rims
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Taking on a Merc head gasketBenzBoy
@benzboy
Club Retro Rides Member 7
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No worries! Just glad it seems as though it's not the head gasket after all! A bit of mayo on the oil cap is common if the car has been stood or just taken on short journeys. Just condensation. If they were off the shelf bits from Merc then I'm sure they would take them back. You can always try, and like you say, if not then you can have them in reserve. I'd be a bit concerned if the oil pressure is low, you might want to look into that as Mercs don't tend to lose oil pressure unless something is amiss. It could be just a faulty gauge sender but I'd be trying to get to the bottom of that if it were me.
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...well I feel pretty bloody stupid right now. Its looks as if I jumped the gun announcing the death of the head gasket. Obviously I've not been taking the car on long drives since thinking the head gasket was blown, but I have had to use it for short journeys like picking up the new parts from MB etc. It suddenly dawned on me that the car hasn't been showing any difference in performance, running temperatures, oil pressure (which is pretty rubbish anyway). I've been checking the coolant and it hasn't been loosing much if any. There was still the mayo on the Oil filler cap but it hasn't collected any more since I first noticed it, and the dipstick oil seems fine too. I took it for a longer run yesterday as a test and it drove fine! So I can only assume there must've been a pretty big air lock somewhere in the system which resulted in what looked like the loss of coolant. This probably let the engine get pretty hot which is why the oil seemed so runny. And I guess the mayo on the cap is just a small trace of water that had got in there at some point. I won't say I'm totally out of the woods yet, but the car will be heading North to Retford with me later today so that will be the test. Like I said, I feel like a right fool. Especially seeing as I've already bought £120's worth of bits from MB! I think I just jumped into it because I have a habit of procrastinating rather than doing, and part of me still does really want to get stuck in on some engine work. So the question is, are MB likely to refund me for this stuff? I'd kind of assumed they wouldn't, and I'm not too bothered as I plan to keep this car for quite a while longer so chances are, and from what I've read, I WILL need to do the head gasket at some point. In which case it's not really wasted money as I doubt the parts are likely to get cheaper any time soon. Sorry for wasting everyones time with this. Especially Dean (BenzBoy) because you've given me a fair bit of advice in this topic. Hopefully it'll prove useful to others in the future though... and myself! The headgasket went on my wife's 190 last year it was a 2.0L M102. I don't know if the engines are necessarily prone to headgasket failures but they are an aluminium head and serious overheating is likely to warp it causing a failure. This is what happened to ours. First the plastic radiator inlet broke whilst I was driving one day and a couple of months later one of the heater hoses burst (it's a good idea to check over all your hoses and your rad to make sure they are in good nick). After that the car ran on for about five months. It didn't overheat but it would slowly lose water and would need to be topped up fairly regularly. Finally the headgasket failed completely. I came home one night after a long drive and noticed that the engine was idling a little roughly. The next day, it failed completely on a short drive. So it's possible that the headgasket could be going but that you could drive it as is for several months. I'd keep an eye on it for the time being. If the coolant continues to need topping up then it's probably best to assume that at some point you'll need to do the gasket. I decided that I didn't want to change the headgasket so I decided to swap in a 3.0L M103. But thats an entirely different story.
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1995 Range Rover 4.0 1995 BMW 320i Saloon 1989 BMW 325i Touring 1991 Mercedes 300TE-24 1991 Mercedes 190e 1970 Sunbeam Imp Sport
1966 Valiant 200 Custom 1964 Ford Fairlane 500 Station Wagon
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