markbognor
South East
 
Posts: 9,970
Club RR Member Number: 56
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Apr 19, 2009 20:40:11 GMT
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I'm having a discussion on another forum about the legality of cut coil springs. The core of the anti arguement is that the MOT regs specify that the spring must be complete. See section a, refering to A coil spring.  Incomplete, cracked or fractured - My interpration of this has been that if a spring has been cut, then that is its new length, and is thus complete, backed up by the fact that the opposite spring is the same and therefore neither spring can be incomplete compared to the other. The anti arguement is that the spring is incomplete when compared to a stock spring. Now the way I see it is that then if aftermarket springs were fitted, then these must also be incomplete when compared with a stock spring, because none of the stock spring remains. So should in theory fail for incompleteness. Also there is a note that covers shortened or lowered springs. Which implys that if a shortened spring that comes loose from its seat re-seats without help it is not a reason for failure, and therefore that that shortened spring is a pass. This conflicts with the anti arguements veiw that a cut, or shortened spring can never be a pass. Any MOT testers out there got a view on this? Particuarly, how would completeness be decided. |
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Last Edit: Apr 19, 2009 20:44:27 GMT by markbognor
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Apr 19, 2009 20:43:32 GMT
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id say an incomplete spring would be so after compairing to the spring on the oposite side of the vehicle as an mot tester would have no way of knowing the length of an original spring during the mot.
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Apr 19, 2009 20:43:32 GMT
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Is it groundhog day again?  ;D |
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... the only injury I sustained was a bumped head when I let the seatbelt of without realizing the car was upside down and that's not really the car's fault. |
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Colonelk
Posted a lot
Posts: 3,742
Club RR Member Number: 83
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Apr 19, 2009 20:44:35 GMT
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thats surprising about the dislocate/relocate thing, always thought that was an instant fail. Hmmm
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markbognor
South East
Posts: 9,970
Club RR Member Number: 56
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Apr 19, 2009 20:46:18 GMT
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Yeah I'm sorry, I will pay a pennance I promise.
I can't remember a definitive answer though, like the one achieved for banded steels. I have searched through the cut springs threads I can find.
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Last Edit: Apr 19, 2009 20:46:53 GMT by markbognor
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Odin
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,406
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Apr 19, 2009 20:49:22 GMT
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I think the 'incomplete' card would come into play if, for example, springs that require pigtails had them cut off.
Straight springs that have been shortened equally both sides aren't incomplete, and pass even strict MOTs.
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Apr 19, 2009 20:54:50 GMT
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Clearly it states :
Take care when jacking vehicles with shortened or lowered springs fitted. Provided the spring ends locate correctly when the vehicle is lowered into the normal running position, without any assistance this is not a reason for rejection.
What more do you need??
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Last Edit: Apr 19, 2009 20:55:20 GMT by HoTWire
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Aaron
Part of things
Posts: 225
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Apr 19, 2009 20:57:48 GMT
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I have custom made coils in the front of the Toyota, and they are too short for the strut's travel. On one MOT, they came out of the spring cup while the car was up in the air, and the tester said he would have to fail me cos his boss had noticed. He recommended wiring them in so in future, they could not dislocate. They've been wired in since with no further problems.
Aaron.
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1975 Toyota 1000 with 4A-GE (tweaked a bit)
1992 Nissan GTi-R (now sold after 17 years)
2001 Subaru Impreza WRX (remapped)
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Apr 19, 2009 21:11:43 GMT
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my biker mate is an mot tester and helped me put lowered springs in the nova
i asked about cut and he said as long as they located properly after being jacked up etc then no problem
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2001 HONDA CT110 (NOT RCV)
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Apr 19, 2009 21:17:42 GMT
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my cut spring benz has never failed an mot on them since 2004.
brake pipes, yes, cut springs, no.
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Seth
South East
MorrisOxford TriumphMirald HillmanMinx BorgwardIsabellaCombi
Posts: 15,536
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Apr 19, 2009 21:23:35 GMT
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my cut spring benz has never failed an mot on them since 2004. brake pipes, yes, cut springs, no. You should never cut brake pipes Pepsiman   ;D |
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Follow your dreams or you might as well be a vegetable. |
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Apr 19, 2009 21:26:04 GMT
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lmao.
got to liven up the daily commute somehow.
;D
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Apr 19, 2009 21:28:33 GMT
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my cut spring benz has never failed an mot on them since 2004. brake pipes, yes, cut springs, no. You should never cut brake pipes Pepsiman ;D LOL! ;D ;D ;D That passage that HW highlighted makes it cut-and-dried to me (if you forgive the pun). Does this mean that all light-weight componenst are "incomplete" because they do not have the same amount of material in them as the original? To be honest, I'd let them beleive whatever the hell they like. They deserve altitude sickness. ;D |
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Apr 19, 2009 22:10:13 GMT
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On my last mot my rear springs dropped out pretty much when he lifted it. He said take it away & tie them up into the cup. 4 cable ties later & he passed it. Ive since chopped a coil so I'm hoping it goes through again. It has made my car safer though, the handling is noticably improved.  |
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Different MOT testers read the rules differently. I think that it's clear though, as HoTWire has already pointed out, that 'shortened' springs can only mean one thing. As has been said many time, cut springs aren't the issue - incorrect length and/or seated springs are - however they're made. Those rules seem to back up that theory perfectly.
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markbognor
South East
Posts: 9,970
Club RR Member Number: 56
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Apr 20, 2009 11:23:41 GMT
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Cheers guys, while reading HW post this morning I had a moment of epiphany.
That clause hotwire pointed out I was reading as, if they come loose its not cause for failure, if they re seat.
Not Shortened springs are OK, as long as if they came loose then they re-seat.
Again like Rmad says down to the interpretation of the tester.
From one 19year old poster:
"i work on cars for a living and know what is what on cars"
Oh well you are obviously right in you interpretation that they are illegal then.
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Apr 20, 2009 11:33:54 GMT
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The comment at the place I take my car to for MOT last time when I asked about it getting on the ramps... "Don't worry, we have lower than that..." ... to which I reply "Good, it is going lower soon", he smiled and said "we'll find a way to get it on the lift"  |
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Apr 23, 2009 19:48:20 GMT
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my cut spring benz has never failed an mot on them since 2004. brake pipes, yes, cut springs, no. You should never cut brake pipes Pepsiman ;D maybe he was trying to reduce pedal travel !! |
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Odin
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,406
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Apr 23, 2009 20:15:13 GMT
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The comment at the place I take my car to for MOT last time when I asked about it getting on the ramps... "Don't worry, we have lower than that..." ... to which I reply "Good, it is going lower soon", he smiled and said "we'll find a way to get it on the lift" I had similar when I went in before my MOT to explain I might struggle to get on the brake rollers and the tester said he'd fail it straight off if it was that low....when I turned up later he started laughing and said 'I thought you said you'd lowered it?!' ;D |
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Apr 23, 2009 20:32:00 GMT
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The comment at the place I take my car to for MOT last time when I asked about it getting on the ramps... "Don't worry, we have lower than that..." ... to which I reply "Good, it is going lower soon", he smiled and said "we'll find a way to get it on the lift" I had similar when I went in before my MOT to explain I might struggle to get on the brake rollers and the tester said he'd fail it straight off if it was that low....when I turned up later he started laughing and said 'I thought you said you'd lowered it?!' ;D i thought if it wouldnt go on the rollers they took it for a drive to test the brakes? the garage i use for mots has the lift sunken into the floor, so its at ground level, nice and easy to get onto. and for the record, the brake pipes werent cut!! just corroded. thats all its ever failed on in the 4 years ive had it. |
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;D
;D
