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Feb 13, 2009 16:18:20 GMT
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Right, I've seen some nice wheels I like, in a size that would fit my Lupo (16x8) and the right offset (et20) but they are 4x108, which a Lupo is not. I've not got the room (or cash) for PCD adapters, so I'm probably going to drill my hubs. From memory, both the front hubs and rear drums are the same thickness all the way round so that's not a problem. Drilling the holes and tapping them isn't a problem (I'd use a pillar drill) But is there a good way of marking the holes? My best plan is to get some 5mm plate lazer cut with 4 12.5mm holes at 4x100 (to bolt to the hub, taper bolts to make sure it is fully centered) and 4 smaller (3mm?) holes on 4x108, which I could stick a centre punch or pilot bit through, then remove the jig and drill the lot, then tap it and fit it all back on the car. Seems quite foolproof to me, I can't really see any issues occurring providing the laser cut plate is accurate, but I'd be interested to hear from someone who has done it before, perhaps you have an easier way? Few pics to say thanks and my lupo for luck
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Feb 13, 2009 19:09:37 GMT
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it still amazes me that no one does other pcd discs and drums in various patterns for the watercooled vws yet, they aircooled crowd have had every conceivable option for ages and run generally less horsepower and throw their cars around a lot less than the watercoolers, it beats me why anyone would want to bolt on adaptors using 4 or 5 bolts, then bolt on their wheels to those, in turn making their wheels held on with almost double the amount of fixings, especially on a gti or vr6, then thrash the living hell out of them, like they do, usually with silly camber and narrower than stock tyres on carlos fandango wheels. I mean, a g60 golf that would have run at least 195 50 15s, now with a fashionable silly strerch on 9 or wider rims, sometimes running 165 50 15s? it must be fashionable or something?
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Last Edit: Feb 13, 2009 19:10:07 GMT by TYP 19
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stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,926
Club RR Member Number: 174
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Redrilling Hubsstealthstylz
@stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member 174
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Feb 13, 2009 21:03:06 GMT
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Is there room on the Lupo hub to drill to a larger PCD? Most modern cars run a hub not much bigger diameter than the outside of the bolt holes, so you can re-drill to a smaller PCD but not a larger one.
Matt
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namless
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 580
Club RR Member Number: 26
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Redrilling Hubsnamless
@namless
Club Retro Rides Member 26
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Feb 14, 2009 12:40:39 GMT
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Feb 14, 2009 13:22:13 GMT
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They key i presume would be in how accurately you can drill the holes, as such i think the hubs setup on a milling machine would be much more suitable than a pillar drill. Any inaccuracy will end up being some form of a wobble or vibration = potentially dangerous.
Unless you have the means to do it yourself (and the skills) take them to a local machine shop and get them done there, its a reasonably easy job so it shouldnt cost all too much. No need to skimp on important things like hubs!
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Shelby Daytona - Scratchbuild project.
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Feb 14, 2009 17:15:37 GMT
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Is there room on the Lupo hub to drill to a larger PCD? Most modern cars run a hub not much bigger diameter than the outside of the bolt holes, so you can re-drill to a smaller PCD but not a larger one. Matt jolly pain in the backside. I think you might be right matt: 4mm is going to send them too close to the edge. I'll have 10mm to play with before the tyre and front arch get too close, but i've never seen a 10mm adaptor. The bolts would stick out of it. The rear drums are fine though, I'll have plenty of room: Perhaps If I use 20mm adaptors, then slot the holes for the bottom ball joint, and move them in 10mm. The camber is adjustable so I'd easily be able to make this up, and it's so low that the shafts are at such an angle that moving them 10mm inwards probably wouldn't be an issue. Seems a bodge though. Does anyone know of any 10mm adaptors? I reckon a set would be possible, 10mm is enough thread depth so the only issue is the bolts holding the adaptor to the car, which would protrude 4 or 5mm. I wouldn't be at all averse to making some clearance on the wheel mounting face for these (in fact, I thing the particular wheels have cutouts at 45 degrees to the bolt holes anyway)
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Last Edit: Feb 14, 2009 17:17:47 GMT by cobblers
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stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,926
Club RR Member Number: 174
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Redrilling Hubsstealthstylz
@stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member 174
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Feb 14, 2009 18:25:30 GMT
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Are you sure there are threads in the rear drums? Usually the drum has a plain hole, and the actual wheel hub with threads is what the drum bolts to.
When I needed adaptors I was planning make a 10mm plate that sat on the hub. I'd bolt the adaptor to the hub with countersunk bolts, then drill and tap right through the adaptor and the hub to create the holes where the wheel bolts through. I think the extra strength by bolting the whole lot together with the wheel bolts would suffice.
Matt
Matt
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Feb 14, 2009 18:47:42 GMT
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Are you sure there are threads in the rear drums? Usually the drum has a plain hole, and the actual wheel hub with threads is what the drum bolts to. When I needed adaptors I was planning make a 10mm plate that sat on the hub. I'd bolt the adaptor to the hub with countersunk bolts, then drill and tap right through the adaptor and the hub to create the holes where the wheel bolts through. I think the extra strength by bolting the whole lot together with the wheel bolts would suffice. Matt Yeah, I was considering that sort of dealio, but struggling to find any m12x1.5 countersunk bolts to hold the lot together, and there would be the disk in the middle complicating matters. Plus, if you tap the two things together, I'd never be able to take it to pieces and expect it to go back together right. The hubs inside the rear drums fill most of the recess from memory, so there should be room on the back with luck. From that picture, it looks as if the 4x108 holes will just come to approx 2mm from the outer edge, which I reckon is 2mm too close, and the hubs are cast (I assume) which rules out welding on a little more material for more of a safety margin. All in all I'm a bit disappointed! I do need to get the disk and drums off to measure it all up properly, which I'll do tomorrow if the weather isn't too bad. I might be pleasantly surprised, that picture is an ABS hub for a Polo - I've got an none-ABS Lupo, it might be 5mm bigger and make my day!
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Feb 14, 2009 19:19:13 GMT
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Looking at that hub, I see no reason why you can't get a ring machined to make the hub a bigger diameter. Make sure it's a good snug fit, have it welded on all the way around (both sides) and get it machined smooth.
You'll not be able to tell it's there if done properly and will give you plenty of 'meat' to drill out to 108. Get a machine shop to drill the new PCD too - a pillar drill will never be accurate, even with a laser-cut guide. Trust me....
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Feb 15, 2009 10:57:07 GMT
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Well, I braved the elements (wasn't that bad actually) and used my £11 wheel nut gun from Maplins (Which is surprisingly good, be interested to see how long it lasts though) and had the wheel and disk off to measure the hub. So for a 12mm hole on 4x100 that gives the outer diameter of the threads at 112mm, leaving 4.5mm to the edge. 4x108 would end up at 120mm, basically hanging off the edge. There is little room inside the disk to increase the size of the hub either, it fits quite tightly over, at 125mm. I suppose I could drill to 4x105 and use wobble bolts or not
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Feb 16, 2009 14:55:22 GMT
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i wouldnt be surprised if you could use the Fox hubs etc on the lupo, they run rear drums in 5x100ish, the front stubs could probably be fitted as well, worth a look i guess?
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Feb 16, 2009 15:25:24 GMT
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Have you considered having the centres of the wheels welded and redrilled?
Would seem the easier option to me, and I know of a place that does it
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1967 Morris Traveller 1971 Series IIA Land Rover 1991 Golf GL 4+e 1992 Corrado G60 1986 E28 BMW 528i
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Feb 16, 2009 18:16:06 GMT
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Have you considered having the centres of the wheels welded and redrilled? Would seem the easier option to me, and I know of a place that does it Might be easier, but would undoubtedly be expensive! And since I change wheels at approx 3 week intervals, I don't want to plough money into wheels that I wont get back, but spending a few quid modding the car to take 108s would open up the field a bit more. I'm going to ask the mech. eng tutors at uni tomorrow, as I think that adding some metal around where the holes would need to be, then drilling and tapping would work perfectly well. The thread itself would be entirely in the original metal, the weld would be reinforcement, and I know a bloody good welder who could add some metal using TIG.
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