SteveP
Part of things
300 Maniac
Posts: 757
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Sept 29, 2008 15:03:48 GMT
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I've just joined the derv world in the form of a BMW 325 TDS...
It strikes a good balance between performance and not costing too much to run. For example on the way back from picking it up I averaged 44mpg. Car's Ive had with this kind of performance in the past have merely scraped 30mpg. Pretty sure that 15mpg difference will more than cover the cost of diesel vs petrol prices.
I think its more of an issue with new cars. Their petrol counterparts may well be almost as efficient and cheap to run in terms of fuelling costs. But due to the extra weight they now need to lug around, petrol performance is hindered compared to the TDi's
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2003 - Volvo S60 D5 SE (Daily) 1989 - Volvo 360 GLT 1985 - Volvo 360 GLS
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Sept 29, 2008 15:25:04 GMT
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Modern diesels, I'm not convinced by. My old-skool diesel citroen C15 van however, NEVER gives worse than 52 real-world MPG no matter how its driven - and often substantially better. My personal record was 61mpg from a full tank, driving very economically. However, it has the weight, structural integrity and interior comforts of a chinese takeaway carton. What he said^. I trot this story out every time someone mentions diesel fuel economy , but my dad used to have a C15 1.7D and he managed High Wycombe to Bath and back, going via the M4 and returning on the A4, on quarter of a tank. And that was loaded up with all my uni stuff on the way back. That was obviously at fairly gentle A-road speeds, and the C15 wasn't exactly the last word in refinement, but still pretty impressive. My only other comparison is the two Maestros my parents had, a 1.3 A-series and a 2.0TD. The diesel was, unsurprisingly, better in EVERY single way
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1989 Peugeot 205. You know, the one that was parked in a ditch on the campsite at RRG'17... the glass is always full. but the ratio of air to water may vary.
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Rob M
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,915
Club RR Member Number: 41
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Sept 29, 2008 15:44:20 GMT
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There seems to be an assumption that a Diesel engine per se is automatically more economical that its petrol equivillent? Does it not depend on what that engine is fitted to? A few of the examples given are of cars that are pretty weighty, the belief that you will get zillionty miles per gallon, even with the most modern Diesel lump in a car that weighs clost to 2 tons is a nonsense. Cars today are far bigger and heavier than their ancestors. My new Clio is a damn sight bigger than its previous incarnation and put it next to a MK1 Golf, well, it looks huge. Realistically the average small car circa 2008 is about the same size as a medium sized family car of the 70s. I would venture that a super modern diesel lump in ,say, a Chevette, would bring magical fuel consumption and performance. The old diesel lumps of long ago could probably deliiver excellent economy but curse word performance, the ultimate trade off. Ive owned a fair few Diesels both new and modern and the only one that really delivered good economy was a Seat Ibiza 1.9 TDI. I would guess that, primarily, it was a light (ish) car with a big unstressed engine that didnt require a heavy boot to get it shifting such a small car, conversely, there would be no way on earth the same engine in a Passat could equal it. Buying a new Diesel is not economical unless you do intergalactic mileages. My 1.2 Petrol Clio can average any thing between 37MPG around town and a shade over 60MPG on a run ( according to the computer), which i have to say is rare because I have a lead foot. The trade off is that all its performance is done way up the rev range, which in turn, buggers the economy. I have to confess that I do love a good torquey Diesel engine, they can be very rewarding but economy wise I don't do the miles to have to have one in my car.
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ImpManiac
Part of things
Imps... Imps... Imps...
Posts: 868
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Sept 29, 2008 16:09:53 GMT
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I drive a petrol, 3.2-litre V6 Vectra every day. I have seen an average of 29 mpg in town driving. I can average over 30 mpg on my commute - 50:50 urban and fast-ish A-road. On the open road, motorway or A- and B-roads, at the speed limit, I can average 37-38 mpg with ease. Now I didn't buy my car for its economy but I have to admit that I am pleased with its fuel consumption, given the, errrrr, adequate performance on offer. ;D I am not a wealthy person but, for me, my daily car does remarkably well overall. And it always brings a smile to my face too! EDIT - I meant to say that I am quoting fuel computer figures but I have done my own calculations, based on fuel used and miles covered and the numbers tally very closely. "I'm"
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Last Edit: Sept 29, 2008 16:11:32 GMT by ImpManiac
1966 Singer Chamois sprint/hillclimb car in white over blue two tone 1975 Triumph Stag long term project (over 20 years so far) in colour TBA 2003 Vauxhall Vectra GSi 3.2 in black sapphire
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Hirst
Posted a lot
This avatar is inaccurate, I've never shaved that closely
Posts: 3,930
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Sept 29, 2008 16:10:01 GMT
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Just to contribute a bit, I can't say I'm a fan of modern turbodiesels.
To explain - I like to drive in such a way that the car accelerates smoothly through the gears - sort of a "sweet spot", which does tend to be pretty economical. However, I've never driven a modern TD which seems to have the right balance - I can drive one smoothly too slowly, smoothly too quickly, or I can have this awkward in-between where it drives very jerkily with very noticable gear changes as it keeps going in and out of the torque band.
I'm wondering whether this is why most people don't seem to be getting great MPG out of their TD cars, as they're driving them more harshly than they would the equivalent petrol motor - either jerkily through the gears or thrashing the hell out of it and straight into 4th. If I see a new car accelerating aggressively nowadays it nearly always has a turbo whistle and diesel groan in the background, especially if it's an Audi A3 or a new VW. I used to just think they were angry sales reps wanting to get back to the Travelodge and watch Howard's Way, now I'm wondering whether that's just how they've been set up to drive and they don't have much choice.
Perhaps I've just not driven a good one?
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Sept 29, 2008 16:10:51 GMT
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Ran round in a xantia tdi last year wasnt great for me around town/ lots of stop start driving the polo 1.3 breadvan s better and you don't get slippy feet and greasy hands or have to wear gloves to fill up either although ive heard the next thing I'm thinking of getting, citroen C15 van is really good although not got a def mpg for one,only as you say the old story does 600 miles on a thimble of derv stories
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Sept 29, 2008 16:23:04 GMT
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Mine is based on fill up, drive, fill up, check amount put in & mileage. Although to be fair, the poor MPG is probably to do with the fact it's a 4.2 straight 6 turbo.. Sorry, that doesn't really help much does it.
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bbq
Part of things
(. )( .)
Posts: 485
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Sept 29, 2008 16:31:02 GMT
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My current diesel experience is a 2.0l non-turbo Nissan Sunny. It's used around town and if it goes on a long journey it stays around 80. I have a heavy right foot, to be fair, but this car has never bettered 40mpg and usually returns 35ish. This consumption seems to remain fairly constant no matter what type of usage the car gets. Oh, and for those of you driving common-rails and enjoying your economy, please remember to save every penny that you can- because you'll need it when the injectors fail @ £1k+. And they will. I've towed enough in to the dealers to know.
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Last Edit: Sept 29, 2008 16:31:27 GMT by bbq
2003 Suzuki Wagon R+. Feel the POWAAARRRR!!! 1968 Volvo 142. My street/strip car. Currently fubarred, it will run one day. 1971 Volvo 142. Parts car. Stripped and gone. 1993 Nissan Sunny diesel. Runs on cooking oil! [/UR
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Sept 29, 2008 16:51:03 GMT
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lolz, I've just bought a Primera with the same engine. It's fuggin' slow, but the owner was sure he could get 50MPG out of it and go from Elgin to Devon on one tank of fuel. If you're running on veg oil you're going to be getting around 10% less mpg anyway.
The common-rail diesels I've tried have all had vile power delivery and unexceptional economy, I really don't get the point in them at all...
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Last Edit: Sept 29, 2008 16:52:15 GMT by milfordcubicle
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filmidget
East Midlands
Mostly Lurking
Posts: 1,652
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Sept 29, 2008 17:23:20 GMT
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I don't know if my experience counts, as generally I only ever drive crusty old nails...... Ditto - mine is a 1360cc verssion My 205 has the venerable old 1769cc non-turbo diesel... The owners manual quotes 71mpg at a steady 56mph, but in reality I've not managed anywhere near that, 62mpg being the best I've managed... ...thrashing it mercilessly I've never managed to get it above 48mpg. About 55 is the norm. So I gain about 5 miles on each gallon of fuel which is a 10% saving, offset by diesel being about 8% more expensive.....and I pay £100 a yr more to tax it. It's pennies, really. Trundling along at 55-60mph I get 50mpg, driving enthusiastically but not mad still results in about 40mpg, so I would say you are seeing 10mpg more than a pretty similar petrol model. Although my tax is 'only' £120 a year, and the 1360cc engine I find a lovely little engine, and bet mine handles better without that great smelly lump on board
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'79 MG Midget 1500 - Still patiently awaiting attention '02 Vauxhall Astra 1.8 Elegance(!) - Better than you might think '03 Mazda MX5 - All new and shiny looking (thanks to Antony at Rust Republic) '09 Renault Clio - Needs to go.
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Sept 29, 2008 17:50:08 GMT
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I find a lovely little engine, and bet mine handles better without that great smelly lump on board True....but I have to sit in it to drive it. AND I had a bath in July. ;D
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Sept 29, 2008 17:59:02 GMT
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I got to spend a lot of seat time in an 06 Mercedes E320 CDI, one of only 2 Diesel powered cars you can currently buy here.
It only felt marginally slower than an E350 Petrol engined car. However, the CDI was averaging 39-40mpg on the Highway.. cruising at 70ish with the cruise control and Air Con on. That's American MPG, 39US mpg= 46UK mpg. Granted this was in Florida where the roads are dead flat.
But an E350 would struggle to get 28-29US on the highway. MB doesn't import smaller-engined E Classes so I can't compare it to a E270 CDI or E240 or something like that.
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Help! Save me!! | 88 E28 M5 | 97 740iL | 60 PA Velox | 62 PA Velox | 58 356A
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Sept 29, 2008 18:08:56 GMT
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My daily car is a BMW 530D Auto on a W-plate. I think it's a common rail engine, but not sure??
Anyway, the car has 2 average mpg things on the trip computer. One of them i never rest, the other i reset at every fill up. Since i've had the car, it is showing 31mpg. Best i've had is 44mpg on a run from Lincoln to Kent & back then to Birmingham and back. Bear in mind that i don't drive very sympathetically, do a lot of stop start miles and run the air-con permanently, i don't think i'm doing to bad. Before getting this car i used to run my retro's everyday (mostly 3 litre straight six Opels & Vauxhalls) & my average was usually in the low 20's!
Either way i'm not really bothered as most of the fuel i don't pay for due to doing a lot of driving about for work!! The car itself goes ok, in fact it goes like stink in 1st, 2nd & 3rd, but when it hits 4th it seems to fall off boost a bit because 4th & 5th are quite high ratios compared to the lower gears. I find the car very "boosty", you can sometimes floor it & nothing happens, then the boost kicks in & it's off! To be honest i prefer the smoother power delivery of my petrol cars, but then i end up paying for a lot more of my own fuel as well!!!
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Sept 29, 2008 21:54:08 GMT
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We've alway had a few TDi's
Wifes old Passat 90bhp Tdi job did a genuine 80odd mpg all day long, no idea how or why but it was checked many many times, owned for two years & always brimmed & check. Would do a whopping 900-1000 miles on a 60l tank.
Same engine in our Cordoba Tdi estate only gets 55-65mpg in a lighter car, though it does'nt go as well I must say.
MY Volvo estate V70 2.4 Petrol has just managed 28.4 mpg towing my race car to Poland & back, 2300 km's or 1411miles on less than 4 tanks of fuel. Trailer & Soarer weigh 1.7 tons, all up is 3.4 tons!!! Which in anybody's books is bloody good for a petrol car!!
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Resident Toyota Geek Current Fleet: HDJ81 Landcruiser, GZ20 Soarer, JZX81 Cresta
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Sept 29, 2008 22:35:54 GMT
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going from my own experience mpg claims from manufacturers, enthusiasts websites and the like are the biggest work of fiction since the new testament Reckon the person in the library before you must have put the books back in the wrong places, for the NT belongs in the Historical and Modern Non-Fiction section
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Sept 29, 2008 22:40:55 GMT
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my passat tdi was excellent on fuel and I think it was achieving high 40's with HUGE performance as well !!!! my mk2 astra 1300 petrol would still top it for economy though even when driven hard but it was never as quick.. the toyota 1000 was awsome on petrol even when ragged and when its new owner took it 750 miles home he called me to say he only put 45 quid in it !!!!!!!!
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Sept 30, 2008 8:37:50 GMT
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My experience is with my mk3 astra work van with a 1.7 non turbo engine. Its not that good, I have to trash it to get any half decent response but it will return about 50mpg when being thrashed and 55mpg or so when i am being careful.
Its not that great really, What i really wanted when we were looking for a work van was a LPG conversion, which is really difficult to find in a van! I think to get any money out of a diesel you have to run it a long time, like our old 405 TD which did over 450,000 miles before being wrote off!
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Darrel
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,167
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Sept 30, 2008 8:44:56 GMT
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Currently my AX 1.4 diesel is giving me 70mpg, but that is on a 50 mile round trip every day at 50mph. To be honest I don't really fancy taking the car much faster anyway. The new Espace ive got is doing 30mpg though and thats with a light foot, where by the older one i had achieved 35-40mpg and was much quicker.
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Sept 30, 2008 9:49:24 GMT
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Been playing with the idea of a 2 litre 16v diesel from a vectra in one of my old opels.. Might reconsider
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Sept 30, 2008 10:06:56 GMT
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My current B5 Passat saloon easily returns 50+MPG (that’s on the MFA which appears to be spot on, and doing the calculations at the pump). This is mainly from my 45 miles daily commute 60mph cruising up the A34 (when traffic allows ) It did just over 800 miles on a tank when driven (very) sympathetically! Oh – it’s for sale too…
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Last Edit: Sept 30, 2008 10:09:07 GMT by raystaggs
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