ChrisT
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 1,670
Club RR Member Number: 225
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Thanks for all that, it's what I was thinking. I forgot to mention last post that the engine keeps dying for no obvious reason, like the sparks been cut. Went to it today, started by cleaning plugs as usual, they all looked quite even compared to how they have been. Started it up and it ran fine, didn't sound like it was missing very much but then it died It seems to be a different problem every time I start it. Here's a video of several starts, sometimes the carbs spit back, then it'll be missing, then running good but each time it dies...
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Ok Chris
You should have a cold start valve/choke-cable, all of the webers I have had have had them check in the Weber info I sent you previously?
Do you have a traditional coil or a coil pack as I would check all the connection terminals so they are tight and not corroded or dry joints, check the engine earths.
Sounds like too weak a mixture on start up and or bad electric connection.
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From that video only you have fuelling issues. Sounds like its running either too lean or too rich. I'd err on the too lean being as it's a cold start.
Refresh my memory - what carbs are you running? 2 or 4? Are the float levels correct? Is fuel pressure correct? Ditto above for throttle stop/mixture settings.
Have you checked TDC on the pully is really TDC?
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Also check that fuel filter that's in the middle of the shot in-case of blockage/bits floating about causing intermittent blocks.
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ChrisT
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 1,670
Club RR Member Number: 225
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Ok, cheers for the replies, will start looking in more detail at the carbs/fueling side of things.
To answer your questions, have still got all that info you sent pete, thanks. It's standard coil for ignition and all terminals have recently been renewed - did wonder if the wires from ecu to coil were at fault, will check continuity....
BPR, twin weber 45's, tdc is tdc, had a screwdriver down the plug hole the other day. Will double check fuel pressure, level and filter.
The thing about resetting idle screws is that it was running near perfect with them in the positions they are before it broke down/started missfiring. Got to think it's something internal that's the problem....
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Chris
Lets hope it's not anything major internal problem.
Also check the plugs in case any have a hairline crack can be very easily overlooked.
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Have you had the rocker cover off to check the valvetrain? might be a dumb idea but bent/broken/loose rocker? or broken valve spring?
As my dad used to say, if it has spark, fuel & compression it will run.
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ChrisT
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 1,670
Club RR Member Number: 225
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As my dad used to say, if it has spark, fuel & compression it will run. That's what I keep telling myself..... Cams act straight on the valves so no rockers to be damaged, would have thought broken valve spring would show in compression results and be noisy....
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ChrisT
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 1,670
Club RR Member Number: 225
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Minor update, current problem would appear to be down to the fuel pump not working Works with 12v direct to it so there's a problem somewhere in the wiring. Bridged the wires to the cut-off switch so it should run constantly but it doesn't and there doesn't appear to be 12v there either. Assuming the fault is in the centre console as it's only propped together and could easily have a loose wire.......
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That would account for the lean running then,lol.
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ChrisT
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 1,670
Club RR Member Number: 225
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Jan 15, 2019 22:10:07 GMT
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Lack of fuel pump was down to a dodgy connection in the centre console, soon sorted However after sorting that I went to start it and it wouldn't fire at all, which was strange considering how well it was in the video That was last week, not had chance to work on it until yesterday, tried to start it and still as unresponsive as last time As I had fuel I thought I'd get the spark tester out again and see how the spark was - got good readings from all leads..... So cleaned all the plugs, refitted them and it started virtually straight away - was still missing but it was running so adjusted the idle to keep it from stalling. Infrared thermometer on the exhaust showed 1 and 2 a lot colder than 3 and 4, pulled the plug leads from 1 and 2 which confirmed they weren't firing as it made hardly any difference to the running. Putting my hands over the inlets didn't change the running either. Connected up the timing light to no.1 and that showed that it was getting a spark and at the right time, connected it up to no.4 and that showed the same result, so the ignition timing is right. Really don't know what's going on, sometimes I think it must be the ignition side of things, then other results lead me to think it's the carbs, leaning towards the carbs again but why would it be sometimes 1 and 2 missing, then others 1 and 4.....
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Jan 15, 2019 22:22:01 GMT
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What ign are you running - can you list the full spec and parts used?
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Jan 15, 2019 22:49:02 GMT
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From what you have just written I would go out buy the cheapest set of plugs you can put them in and check the temps again with it running of course, and I'm 80% certain you will find a big difference.
If you can get the coldest plugs you can find as well as the cheapest.
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ChrisT
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 1,670
Club RR Member Number: 225
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What ign are you running - can you list the full spec and parts used? The ignition is controlled by the weber alpha ecu which has +ve and -ve going to the coil, which came with the ecu (have new coil but same results when using it), from the coil I've now got a new set of 8.5mm 'performance' leads and the plugs are, I believe, NGK BCR8ES - one grade colder and 'short nosed' because of the high comp pistons. peteh1969 - OK, will try that, although they are virtually brand new plugs, got to be worth a go.....
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There are only a few things cilinders 1 and 4 share; crank position, coil pack (if it's wasted spark but I believe it's not?) and possibly part of the carbs if they're mirror images of each other (which is quite possible). Could it be that 1 and 4 have vacant vacuum ports? For things like brake booster or crankcase ventilation? Have you checked the manifolds for vacuum ports?
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Jan 16, 2019 10:55:09 GMT
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Is it possible to put a distributor in temporarily to eliminate the ECU?
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ChrisT
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 1,670
Club RR Member Number: 225
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Jan 16, 2019 18:36:20 GMT
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There are only a few things cilinders 1 and 4 share; crank position, coil pack (if it's wasted spark but I believe it's not?) and possibly part of the carbs if they're mirror images of each other (which is quite possible). Could it be that 1 and 4 have vacant vacuum ports? For things like brake booster or crankcase ventilation? Have you checked the manifolds for vacuum ports? No, it's not wasted spark, just standard coil/dizzy set up. There's no vacuum take offs on the the manifold, just N2O injectors, sprayed carb cleaner round all areas that might leak to no effect. Is it possible to put a distributor in temporarily to eliminate the ECU? I have been thinking about getting the dizzy to work without the ECU but can't think of an easy way, it originally contained a hall effect sensor but the wiring has gone and possibly some of the sensor. Was wondering if some kind of electronic ignition kit could be made to fit.... Today I decided to break out the Gunson Colortune to see what was happening in the combustion chamber, according to that it would appear the mixture is the same across all four cylinders..... But I don't know how much the colour changes the richer the mixture, they were all rich but maybe some were more so than others. Will continue this tomorrow, playing with the idle screws should show me how close they are.
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Last Edit: Jan 16, 2019 18:56:37 GMT by ChrisT
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Jan 16, 2019 20:40:31 GMT
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Chris with the colour tune fitted check the temps on 1 & 4 as the colour tune does not use a traditional spark plug and that may give you a temperature indication of the ignition on that cylinder?
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ChrisT
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 1,670
Club RR Member Number: 225
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Jan 16, 2019 21:50:41 GMT
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Will be doing, new plugs also ordered.....
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Jan 17, 2019 17:59:55 GMT
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It does sound like carb/fuel problem, once it cuts out from cold will it restart with some carb/brake cleaner or easy start? it could be the float chamber needle valves sticking, might be worth investing in some carb rebuild kits to rule it out
My viva uses twin 48 dellorto carbs which do cough and spit a bit until its warmed up but I do only use the choke on one carb which doesn't help, also in initial start up I switch the fuel pump on for 30 seconds or so to get the float chambers full then give the throttle 4 or 5 pumps before starting
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Last Edit: Jan 17, 2019 18:04:03 GMT by gtviva
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