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Jun 13, 2008 13:42:14 GMT
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Well to put some fuel on the fire I can tell you that the van is parked just after a set of lights and there's regularly a queue of traffic sat just a few yards further down the road to that picture so it's not going to be a speed camera. In that area there are a lot of poor, a lot of African and Pole immigrants and as a result there are a lot of untaxed cars, uninsured drivers and numberplate cloning is quite common.
It is also sat on the border where Kent becomes London.
Interesting that 100 yards further down the road at the crossroads is the Police station, maybe they all come running out when the van spots criminals!
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Jun 13, 2008 13:44:14 GMT
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Really? I'm completely not in favour of computer-based policing, for exactly the reasons outlined in Scary's thread of a few days back. Speed cameras do cause folk to panic brake, it's almost a reflex reaction in every driver I know, no different to breathing, swallowing or flinching or blocking when someone tries to punch you. It does seem these days that there's too much emphasis on catching the slightest traffic offence and fining accordingly, and as long as that continues, the more folk will be looking out for cameras than they will for actual hazards. So you're only real gripe on the subject is panic braking then? OK, so Scary was slightly inconvenienced, but not much so? Should only happen around the time of renewing your insurance, so wouldn't be a gripe relevant to every day driving? |
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Jun 13, 2008 13:49:13 GMT
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Last Edit: Jun 13, 2008 13:50:07 GMT by Deleted
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stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,953
Club RR Member Number: 174
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Everywhere you go now.....stealthstylz
@stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member 174
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Jun 13, 2008 14:24:02 GMT
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Really? I'm completely not in favour of computer-based policing, for exactly the reasons outlined in Scary's thread of a few days back. curse word example i'm afraid He'd have faced exactly the same "inconvinience" if there were no computers at all. The police would have responded to the complaint, gone to see him and asked for his documents. He didn't have them at the time, so he would have been given a producer. He'd have then had to take all his documents to the local station. personally I don't see the big deal. stop speeding and you won't get a fine, it is illegal afterall. I suspect most, if not all members on here never drive a car illegally. and would be quite annoyed if an illegal car was to run into you. what they are doing is trying to reduce the number of drivers doing so illegally. how is this such a bad thing. If you don't want to go into the back of people who brake suddenly, then don't tailgate. not such a big sacrifice is it really.  This makes perfect sense. If you get caught speeding you're the only person at fault, same as if you get caught drink driving, driving without MOT/tax/insurance or any other incident. I speed a fair amount, but if I got caught I wouldn't blame it on the computer I would be breaking the law. Do the crime do the time. Matt Matt |
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Jun 13, 2008 14:42:53 GMT
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I'd be surprised if there was anyone on here that has never driven illegally. Maybe buying or test driving a car, speeding, driving before they had a licence, taking a car to the shop on the way back from failing the MOT. The idea of trying to slow traffic down for safety is a nice one, but it's debatable whether that's actually what their purpose is.
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Jun 13, 2008 14:56:13 GMT
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speed doesn't kill.
driving not according to the conditions can.
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Jun 13, 2008 15:12:10 GMT
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I guess i must've missed Scary's thread, but can only pressume it was similar to what happened to me.
3 weeks after buying Skinnys 340 of him, i got caught by an ANPR bolted to the bonnet of a bog standard Astra panda car.
As soon as i went passed it, i thought i bet i get a tug here. Sure enough round the next corner was another car waiting, i passed it and they pulled out and followed me for 5mins before they put on the blues.
Now normaly it wouldn't bother me, they were quite amicable but and a big but is i actualy had my insurance certificate in the car, it's MOT'd and taxed and they still made me do a producer.
I mean WTF is that all about, they quite clearly had seen all the paper work they needed to yet still give me the inconvinience of that.
Personaly i think that sucks and they should be looking for the real uninsured drivers!
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OAP drifta Volvo 340,Williams power
1960 Beetle twin 40's 1776cc
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Jun 13, 2008 16:54:03 GMT
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Our town is full of ANPR cameras, cos its full of poor people  The police are having a clampdown on uninsured folk, I regularly see them performing the stop manouvre that magnumpi describes. This, I don't have a problem with. Insurance (and tax and MoT) are legal requirements, why should people get away without having what I always pay for? My thread the other night was meant to be about requiring insurance and MoT on a car that is parked at the roadside, as many on here seem to think its ok to leave a "project" on the road for a few days (weeks) because its still got a month's tax left  I wasn't really inconvenienced either, surprised, maybe, and a little annoyed at the attitude I was getting (its an old car, are you sure its MoTed?, for example) but the trip to the police station with my insurance certificate gave me an opportunity to speak to the inspector about next door's inventive use of the police service. General civil liberties cameras everywhere type thoughts, and conspiracy theories about "the government" spying on you? Wrong board. I have opinions, which you can probably guess, but this isnt the place for that. |
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To get a standard A40 this low, you'd have to dig a hole to put it in |
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IDY
Part of things
Posts: 893
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Jun 13, 2008 16:59:05 GMT
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Now normaly it wouldn't bother me, they were quite amicable but and a big but is I actualy had my insurance certificate in the car, it's MOT'd and taxed and they still made me do a producer. I mean WTF is that all about, they quite clearly had seen all the paper work they needed to yet still give me the inconvinience of that. I haven't had a producer in a while but what used to happen in those circumstances was on the the producer they ticked which docs you need to produce down the station. In your case the ANPR system should have told them that it was Taxed, MOTed and insured but it probably would not have had the change of keeper in the system so they probably wanted to see the new keeper supplement and your driving license produced. |
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I will get round to finishing it at some point
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Jun 13, 2008 17:42:12 GMT
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Oh dear. There are some very.......Blinkered - would that be the right word? - people on here. The nationwide ANPR system (its not just these vans and police cars - its every city, every motorway and a massive percentage of other roads) has very little to do with speeding, and not a huge amount to do with catching uninsured / untaxed cars and has a lot to do with tracking and logging your movements. I could go on for hours about ANPR and why its such a bad thing and why people with the "I don't see a problem, I don't do anything wrong" attitude need to wake up to the implications, but as said above, this forum isnt the place for it. |
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1986 Panda 4x4.
1990 Metro Sport.
1999 Ford Escort estate.
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Jun 13, 2008 18:26:10 GMT
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Jonny69, I am in your valley quite regularly.
So, I may well pop in at some time, depending on when you are there etc.
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Jun 13, 2008 19:38:51 GMT
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ANPR isn't such a bad thing in my eyes. I used to drive a lot of untaxed cars and always rode my luck. Had I been pulled I'd have thoroughly deserved whatever I got, no question about it. I stopped a couple of years back after having a very lucky escape with an ANPR van and haven't driven an untaxed/un-insured vehicle since. Maybe the scare factor works, maybe I'm not the only one who realised it was pointless, futile and stupid to have driven like this?
Last time I got pulled by an ANPR equipped car the coppers were very fair and polite (I had trade insurance but hadn't added to the database as I'd only just bought it): I had no id on me and they could have taken the car there and then but were really cool with me when I explained and gave me the benefit of the doubt.
Red light cameras are another thing though, they scare the be-Jesus out of me.
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Corsa Apology Champion 2014.
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stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,953
Club RR Member Number: 174
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Everywhere you go now.....stealthstylz
@stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member 174
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Jun 13, 2008 19:51:21 GMT
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Oh dear. There are some very.......Blinkered - would that be the right word? - people on here. The nationwide ANPR system (its not just these vans and police cars - its every city, every motorway and a massive percentage of other roads) has very little to do with speeding, and not a huge amount to do with catching uninsured / untaxed cars and has a lot to do with tracking and logging your movements. I could go on for hours about ANPR and why its such a bad thing and why people with the "I don't see a problem, I don't do anything wrong" attitude need to wake up to the implications, but as said above, this forum isnt the place for it. I love conspiracy theories. Why the curse word would anybody want to follow me? I wouldn't care anyway. If you're not doing anything dodgy then whats to worry about. Matt |
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bazzateer
Posted a lot
Imping along sans Vogue
Posts: 3,653
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Jun 13, 2008 20:02:25 GMT
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As for ANPR, I am 150% against it in all forms. NO WAY does the government have the right to track my movements. "but it targets uninsured, untaxed cars and will help in the Fight Against Terror" they say. WILL IT F*CK Actually, it does, and has  All it does is makes life a little harder for Ordinary Joe`s like us, Err.......if you're an Ordinary Joe, with a totally legal car and no reason for the police to be interested in you, then the ANPR will 'ignore' your car. So how does it make life a little harder for you? |
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1968 Singer Chamois Sport
1972 Sunbeam Imp Sport
1976 Datsun 260Z 2+2
1998 Peugeot Boxer Pilote motorhome
2003 Rover 75 1.8 Club SE (daily)
2006 MG ZT 190+ (another daily)
2007 BMW 530d Touring M Sport (tow car)
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bazzateer
Posted a lot
Imping along sans Vogue
Posts: 3,653
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Jun 13, 2008 20:15:38 GMT
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The nationwide ANPR system ...... has very little to do with speeding, Actually, it has nothing to do with speeding. It's not about tracking your movements either. Unless you are the subject of some sort of police interest which could be anything from untaxed cars to persons wanted for murder or even terrorist issues. Your car number won't activate the system unless it has been entered onto it. There has to be a reason for this to happen. These days the police and their actions are under far greater scrutiny than Ordinary Joes going about their business. |
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1968 Singer Chamois Sport
1972 Sunbeam Imp Sport
1976 Datsun 260Z 2+2
1998 Peugeot Boxer Pilote motorhome
2003 Rover 75 1.8 Club SE (daily)
2006 MG ZT 190+ (another daily)
2007 BMW 530d Touring M Sport (tow car)
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Jun 13, 2008 20:22:12 GMT
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I love conspiracy theories. Why the dash would anybody want to follow me? I wouldn't care anyway. If you're not doing anything dodgy then whats to worry about. Matt Its not a conspiracy theory at all I'm afraid. the nationwide ANPR vehicla database is up and running and has been since summer 2006 iirc. A massive database linked to all fixed anpr cameras - cities, towns motorways and most a-roads spots which logs every numberplate that passes each camera, building up a log of all car journeys made. The time and date you pass each camera allows the database to follow your journey, knowing where you have one and how long it took you to get there. These logs are stored for 5 years (although I have heard this has been extended to 10 years) and the police have unlimited access to the last 2 years data, needing a court order to search older stuff. As for why...well thats a deeper question. This is the sort of thing that surveillance state governments like our enjoy doing - spending billions on a massive database logging peoples movements. Also, my point about it making life harder for Ordinary Joe - as already sytated in the thread, the sheep see the cameras and hit the brakes as an instinct, causing a danger to others and general congestion - its another distraction for drivers who already spend too little time concentrating on their driving. |
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Last Edit: Jun 13, 2008 20:22:34 GMT by dave21478
1986 Panda 4x4.
1990 Metro Sport.
1999 Ford Escort estate.
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rod
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,953
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Jun 13, 2008 20:31:24 GMT
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Hmmmm..... So how are we able to stop this tracking system (if thats what it is)?....cant see that we can ? Cant understand all the moans ,you break the rules ,you get caught! BTW ....many moons ago I bought a MK1 Transit ex ambulance ,which I turned in to a camper (done a few). It had a neatly patched 6" dia hole in the roof just behind the cab area . I was always intrigued by what it was there for . A guy came up to me as I sat waiting for the missus to come out of a shop or summat . He said he recognised the reg of the vehicle ,as he used to drive it for Essex County Council .The vehicle would be parked near a junction /congestion area etc ,and a large extending pole raised out the hole with camera on top, to survey traffic movement,prior to alterations etc !
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Jun 13, 2008 21:11:15 GMT
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Ive got no problem with these cameras, the amount of uninsured/ unlicenced drivers about is frightening. Tax and ticketless cars are just the thin edge of the wedge and the more dodgy cars that are taken off the roads the better. I'm 100% legal with my motors but it doesnt stop me feeling paranoid when I go past one of these things. I don't want my car crushed if they make a mistake!
It makes you think though, were on camera 24/7 nowadays. Next thing wel have thought police round if you think about speeding.
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1987 Maestro 1.6 HL perkins diesel conversion 1986 Audi 100 Avant 1800cc on LPG 1979 Allegro Series 2 special 4 door 1500cc with vynil roof. IN BITS. HERITAGE ISSUES.  |
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Jun 13, 2008 21:19:47 GMT
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I love conspiracy theories. Why the dash would anybody want to follow me? I wouldn't care anyway. If you're not doing anything dodgy then whats to worry about. Matt Its not a conspiracy theory at all I'm afraid. the nationwide ANPR vehicla database is up and running and has been since summer 2006 iirc. A massive database linked to all fixed anpr cameras - cities, towns motorways and most a-roads spots which logs every numberplate that passes each camera, building up a log of all car journeys made. The time and date you pass each camera allows the database to follow your journey, knowing where you have one and how long it took you to get there. These logs are stored for 5 years (although I have heard this has been extended to 10 years) and the police have unlimited access to the last 2 years data, needing a court order to search older stuff. As for why...well thats a deeper question. This is the sort of thing that surveillance state governments like our enjoy doing - spending billions on a massive database logging peoples movements. Also, my point about it making life harder for Ordinary Joe - as already sytated in the thread, the sheep see the cameras and hit the brakes as an instinct, causing a danger to others and general congestion - its another distraction for drivers who already spend too little time concentrating on their driving. But in most cases these are NOT ANPR cameras, they're traffic monitoring ones. Agreed they sure as hell can track you (assuming there are cameras on the roads you use of course) but the ANPR is a different thing altogether. |
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Corsa Apology Champion 2014.
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Jun 13, 2008 21:33:28 GMT
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1986 Panda 4x4.
1990 Metro Sport.
1999 Ford Escort estate.
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The police are having a clampdown on uninsured folk, I regularly see them performing the stop manouvre that magnumpi describes. This, I don't have a problem with. Insurance (and tax and MoT) are legal requirements, why should people get away without having what I always pay for? My thread the other night was meant to be about requiring insurance and MoT on a car that is parked at the roadside, as many on here seem to think its ok to leave a "project" on the road for a few days (weeks) because its still got a month's tax left 
