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Well, at least we *have* elections, multiple parties, freedom of speech, freedom to google and yahoo without censorship, and, yes, even cars that don't self-impale the driver at 10MPH!
(To get this back to cars....)
(BTW, those were folks in continental Europe and the Japanese government itself which spurned the Chicom Olympic torch over their mass killings in Tibet and complicity in the Darfur genocide. It wasn't the US. Bush is big friends with Walmart and Aldi's favorite source of supply. And nobody likes Bush more than the Chicoms for his continuous downplaying of their aggression.)
(And BTW, as regards politics, I've sat here quietly on dozens of occasions when folks pop off about this or that politics, and no one complains. But if a yank says anything, some people go ballistic. Play fair. If you can crab about Bush every two minutes, fine. Then let other people crab too.)
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Last Edit: May 11, 2008 15:03:01 GMT by Team Blitz
Team Blitz Ford Capri parts worldwide: Restoration, Road, or Race. Used, Repro, and NOS, ranging from scabby to perfect. Itching your Capri jones since 1979! Buy, sell, trade. www.teamblitz.com blitz@teamblitz.com
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pac1982
Part of things
?And on the eighth day, god created the Astra GTE.?
Posts: 162
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no I’m UK born and bred mate, from Leicester in fact, sorry if I’ve spoilt the thread but the whole china situation is something I find vey interesting and could debate it for hours
Unfortunately even though team blitz has spliced together some of my quotes to try and make me look bad you can still see I have some valid points and you cant deny that.
The worlds a mess right now and all governments seem to try to make things worse for some strange reason and in my eyes the US is one of the biggest offenders with the UK hanging on to its coat tails, thankfully we seem to have let go somewhat recently
This is in no means my judgement on American people in general just there government, Korea also needs a big slap.
I don’t see how china can get such a bad rep for keeping its population under control and protecting there future
It’s like say you brought that rare ass car you have always wanted, its cost you a fortune minting it up your gonna make sure you had the security and protection to keep it that way
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I don’t see how china can get such a bad rep for keeping its population under control Another un-edited quote, not a word has been changed. It’s like say you brought that rare ass car you have always wanted, its cost you a fortune minting it up your gonna make sure you had the security and protection to keep it that way No, it's more like you stole that rare ass car you always wanted, by ripping off BMW, GM, and France's IP rights. And then picking winners and losers in "the new economy" based upon their fealty to "the party". Not a fun party. But a grim, gray, gulag of a party which presents a choice of, um, one party to choose from. It'd be like that kind of rare ass car.
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Team Blitz Ford Capri parts worldwide: Restoration, Road, or Race. Used, Repro, and NOS, ranging from scabby to perfect. Itching your Capri jones since 1979! Buy, sell, trade. www.teamblitz.com blitz@teamblitz.com
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pac1982
Part of things
?And on the eighth day, god created the Astra GTE.?
Posts: 162
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No mate your taking things to far now, you must have a very bleak outlook on life, face it China as a country really aint that bad but there build quality is another issue all together I’m not gonna say any more on the subject only because I don’t want a discussion to turn in to an argument.
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Last Edit: May 11, 2008 5:47:50 GMT by pac1982
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Well maybe since you're young and don't remember Tiananmen Square, for example, you never knew or cared for anybody who was buried up to their chin and tortured (not pretend torture or embarrassing poses, but actual old-fashioned "retro" medieval torture) for weeks by Chicom jailers, who suffered broken bones and permanent loss of hearing, and had nightmares in their sleep. Then was released after several years. Geneva Convention? Red Cross? Hahahahahaha.
Yeah, "I support China fully" and "we need not worry."
The truth is worth an argument.
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Team Blitz Ford Capri parts worldwide: Restoration, Road, or Race. Used, Repro, and NOS, ranging from scabby to perfect. Itching your Capri jones since 1979! Buy, sell, trade. www.teamblitz.com blitz@teamblitz.com
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lol...china`s "not that bad" There are some facets of American society I don't like (just like most societies) but i would much rather america ruled the world than china did! Apart from north korea, I'm struggling to think of a more censored, closed, dictatorship anywhere else in the world. One statement from pac1982 is probably right...china is the future. But not through democrocy, freedom of choice or via any ballot box, but by sheer weight of numbers. by having a monopoly on almost every construction and manufacturing industry in the world, (look through your posessions, clothes and gadgets and find me the stuff that ISNT made in china) and...importantly....the bigges army in the world. just for numbers of basic soldiers, I believe china has over tripple the number of US soldiers. BUT. this is a car forum, and a thread about fake chinese cars. Save the politics for elsewhere.
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1986 Panda 4x4. 1990 Metro Sport. 1999 Ford Escort estate.
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Well maybe since you're young and don't remember Tiananmen Square, for example, you never knew or cared for anybody who was buried up to their chin and tortured (not pretend torture or embarrassing poses, but actual old-fashioned "retro" medieval torture) for weeks by Chicom jailers, who suffered broken bones and permanent loss of hearing, and had nightmares in their sleep. Then was released after several years. Geneva Convention? Red Cross? Hahahahahaha. Yeah, "I support China fully" and "we need not worry." The truth is worth an argument. People in glass houses..... What's occuring in Guantanamo Bay at the moment? We could sit here and throw mud all day but this is a friendly car forum not volvoforums.net.
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Jaguar S-Type 3.0 SE
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China: appalling human rights record, regularly kills off its dissenters, or imprisons them for long periods without trial USA: appalling human rights record, regularly kills off its dissenters, or imprisons them for long periods without trial UK: appalling human rights record, regularly kills off its dissenters, or imprisons them for long periods without trial ( see conduct in Ireland over the last 40 years, as one example) rest of the world: fill in the blanks..........................
no-one is perfect, but at least the UK and the US know how to build cars
watch these crash test vids, and see if you still want to buy Chinese curse word
heres a comparison vid for chinese copies
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Last Edit: May 11, 2008 9:02:31 GMT by Autofive
Someone just shot the elephant in the room.
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at least the UK and the US know how to build cars Probably the most contraversial statement in this thread.... ;D
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1997 TVR Chimaera 2009 Westfield Megabusa
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at least the UK and the US know how to build cars Probably the most contraversial statement in this thread.... ;D yes, perhaps i should ammend that to: at least the UK and the US KNEW how to build cars
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Someone just shot the elephant in the room.
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May 11, 2008 10:08:54 GMT
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Why would anyone copy the Frontera?
There's a perverse appeal of driving a Geely Merrie 300, GreatW All Sing or a Hongoi Hod.
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Jaguar S-Type 3.0 SE
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May 11, 2008 10:22:01 GMT
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i guess i will keep out of this argument, seeing as i am an avid supporter of freeing Tibet
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1993 Fiat Panda Selecta 2003 Vauxhall Combo 1.7DI van 2006 Mercedes Kompressor Evolution-S AMG SportCoupé
"You think you hate it now, wait til you drive it"
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May 11, 2008 10:56:33 GMT
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Well I don't know how many of you folks here have lived in:
The USA, UK & China but I have...
I was in the Army for 6 years (at an early stage of my life) and can state quite sincerely that we are all products of propaganda to a certain extent.
The one thing that went wrong in my eyes is that the Iron Curtain was dismantled. It was (in my opinion) the counter balance to capitalism, which if not kept in check could be a rather nasty way forward for the planet.
My opinion of the USA? Generally nice people, tend not to be particularly open minded or well educated on matters outside of the USA. Very comfortable lifestyle if you have a good job and salary. Excellent service and value for money! Population appears more susceptible to "fear" than any other country I've lived in. Can do attitude. Ridiculously petty, religion based laws in many states. $hite Army - fantastic equipment ;D
My opinion of the UK: Generally, friendly more open minded, educated people with an undercurrent of yob mentality. Tends to runs on the fumes of past glories and not particularly forward looking. Service average, costs high compared to the USA. Better Army - $hite equipment ;D
My opinion of China. I expected to be followed around by secret police in 1995 but actually found the police to be "nicer" than those found in the UK and the USA to be honest. People very friendly and the main problem was that most people did not have much cash. If you have cash you could do anything you liked within reason. $hite Army, $hite Equipment - but massive ;D
In all fairnedd I don;t think you can compare the China of 2008 with the societies in the US or UK. Hell you could be shot for being a trade unionist in the early 20th century in the US and they still had an aparteid system in place until 1965.
I think you'd need to look at the US and UK in the 40's & 50's and compare that with China today (2008) to get a more realistic comparison.
I saw one of those Chery QQ cars in Baguio City the other week - it has a "cuter" face than the Daewoo/Chevy variant but I wouldn't buy one.
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Tell it like it is.... NOT how it should be
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May 11, 2008 11:00:56 GMT
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I lived in China for 3 years, from 2003 to 2006.
I didn't live in a big City, such as Shanghai or Beijing, where a pretty picture could be painted for any Western contingent.
No, I lived in a big industrial city, where the entire registered Western population equated to 6, yes SIX, Westerners in a poplation of about 250,000 Chinese. It was necessary because that's where the factories I was keeping tabs on were located.
It wasn't all doom and gloom, I didn't see any oppression or threatning behavior. The factories I visited (often without warning) were not huge sweatshops employing 5 year olds to work 26 hours a day.
Just thought you'd appreciate a perspective from someone who'd actually been there for a significant amount of time.
Now getting back on topic.
The streets of China are awash with new cars actually recognisable from yesteryear back in the UK.
Cars such as the VW Santana 3000, and also the Mk2 Jetta, are built under licence by VW. This is also the case for the Audi 200, Daihatsu Charade, Citroen ZX and many more.
They are not counterfeit, they are build under licence where the original company has sold off the tooling to China, and allowed them to continue building. Same with the Frontera.
Unfortunately, in order to allow the 'middle' classes of Chinese to be able to afford such a car, they have to be made cheaply, from, cheap materials. Few Chinese would be able to buy them otherwise. Cars in China rarely last more than 5 years, and cars over 20 years old are scrapped by law anyway.
There are a number of unofficial knockoffs though, such as the Chery QQ/Daewoo Matiz. Daewoo tried to sue Chery in the early days, but didn't have the financial backing to afford it. Then Chevrolet took over and had a go, the Chinese Government said they wouldn't allow it, and that was the end of that.
Chinese motor designers seem to have an odd idea about what looks good. I've been to the Guangzhou Mototr Show, and some of the abortions there are beyong belief. One even had mismatched Mercedes ML rear lights on it. This is probably why they very heavily steal styling cues off different cars (ok, to the point of copying!).
One thing that does rile me is when folks say Chinese produced goods are curse word. or poor quality.
There's a very good reason for that, GREED. Greed from the Western factory that goes to China with an item that costs them £100 to make in UK/America/another country, and see that they can get it made in China for £40!!!
"Wow, an extra £60 profit! I wonder how much more we can make if we spec slightly lower quality materials, or leave this part out", thinks the Western company.
Thus you are left with an item thats a shadow of its normal self, but don't blame the Chinese, they are just working on instruction from the Western companies that contract them to make it!
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Last Edit: May 11, 2008 11:01:46 GMT by jettadeluxe
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May 11, 2008 11:26:47 GMT
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Here is a "locally produced" (read copy) Hummer in the Philippines (Baguio City) - snaps taken on my trip last week:
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Tell it like it is.... NOT how it should be
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May 11, 2008 15:24:40 GMT
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People in glass houses..... What's occuring in Guantanamo Bay at the moment? We could sit here and throw mud all day but this is a friendly car forum not volvoforums.net. Gitmo is a high security prison for a few dozen battlefield prisoners. It's like a country club you cannot leave in terms of niceties. Been inspected by the International Red Cross, and passed. US law requires all war detainees get a military proceeding to determine whether their continued imprisonment is warranted. Prayer is permitted, arrows painted to orient towards mecca, native foods on offer, soccer on the grounds, independent free legal advocates offered, etc etc. That's what's going on in Gitmo. Hardly the same as Chicom imprisonment in type, scope, length or breadth. This isn't mud. This is a factual report, not the lefty BBC version. Al Queda cuts off the heads of journalists and soldiers it captures. The Chicoms toss you in prison if you want to go to church, protest The Dam, start a newspaper, or have more than 1 girl baby per household. I'm glad I have a glass house.
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Team Blitz Ford Capri parts worldwide: Restoration, Road, or Race. Used, Repro, and NOS, ranging from scabby to perfect. Itching your Capri jones since 1979! Buy, sell, trade. www.teamblitz.com blitz@teamblitz.com
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pac1982
Part of things
?And on the eighth day, god created the Astra GTE.?
Posts: 162
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May 11, 2008 17:17:27 GMT
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Gitmo is a high security prison for a few dozen battlefield prisoners. It's like a country club you cannot leave in terms of niceties. Been inspected by the International Red Cross, and passed. US law requires all war detainees get a military proceeding to determine whether their continued imprisonment is warranted. Prayer is permitted, arrows painted to orient towards mecca, native foods on offer, soccer on the grounds, independent free legal advocates offered, etc etc. What a load of curse word!!! Now don't get me wrong in my eyes Gitmo as you put it is one of there better things the US have been involved in and all the scum bag terriosts deserve what ever they get in there You can’t honestly tell me that the terrorists get an easy life in there though that’s just loony. Now this is just a guess of mine so I maybe wrong but I am sure more "innocent” people including your troops have been killed in false wars than anything china has done recently (note I said recently)
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May 11, 2008 17:23:46 GMT
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Actually, some of the prisoners released from Gitmo have requested to stay. They never ate so well, or were treated to such comfy living conditions featuring A/C, bed, medical care, etc. I guess they enjoyed the balderdash! Nevertheless, the marines put them on a plane back to Pakistan or Qatar or whereever.
But, hey, pac1982, let's take this off-List. We've strained the thread with this sideshow, and I don't want to continue the dialog here. It's irritating to me, apologies to anyone likewise irritated. Click my ID and my email is public.
Norm
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Last Edit: May 11, 2008 17:26:03 GMT by Team Blitz
Team Blitz Ford Capri parts worldwide: Restoration, Road, or Race. Used, Repro, and NOS, ranging from scabby to perfect. Itching your Capri jones since 1979! Buy, sell, trade. www.teamblitz.com blitz@teamblitz.com
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bazzateer
Posted a lot
Imping along sans Vogue
Posts: 3,653
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May 11, 2008 18:08:54 GMT
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Quite like that Hummer copy above
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1968 Singer Chamois Sport 1972 Sunbeam Imp Sport 1976 Datsun 260Z 2+2 1998 Peugeot Boxer Pilote motorhome 2003 Rover 75 1.8 Club SE (daily) 2006 MG ZT 190+ (another daily) 2007 BMW 530d Touring M Sport (tow car)
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RetroMat
Posted a lot
Column Shifting!
Posts: 3,444
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May 11, 2008 18:18:09 GMT
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Last Edit: May 11, 2008 18:20:21 GMT by RetroMat
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