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Ooh, I get a mention, appears I'm setting a fuel injection benchmark here lol
You sure the Argenta isn't doing what my Ren did, and for the same reason?
I had a nice fat spark at the plugs but that was because the spark was tracking over the lid to random plugs and when the arm would point at the correct plug it'd just ground to the engine block
If you pull the cap off and spin it over does it arc out all over the inside of the cap? If it does you may still have rust and carbon track in there or the cap has just plain gone bad.
Because a nit of dope sprayed down its nose should at least get a cough if the spark's hitting the right place at the right time...
I'd say check that before faffing about with the fuel. Can you even get to one of the injectors with either a long pipe stuck in your lug 'ole or a long screwdriver to hear it click as you spin it over?
At least that way you'd know if the circuit that runs the injector is still good and hasn't gone open or fused shut.
I admire the courage you have, taking on Italian electrics.
--Phil
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Xbol you are a legend, I don't know anyone who would have travelled that distance and then changed the tyres on site Loved the reference to Stomil tyres, I used to have them on an escort I had, they were rock hard and lasted for ever
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chip83
Part of things
One day at a time....
Posts: 357
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anesome stuff, looking forward to progress on theses.
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Quashqui and Yeti (needs must currently) SAAB 93 EST (Sold) Volvo S40(sold) Volvo V40(sold) MK2 astra aka "THE SHED"(sold) Mgb GT (crashed) Peugeot 405(sold) Orion 1600i (sold) Metro (scrapped) Mk1 Fiesta (Broken for spares) Mk5 Cortina (crashed)
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Nice one b0ll0x that paint match on the Cavalier is the nuts.
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mirafioriman
Posted a lot
My next project.......
Posts: 1,361
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Mar 24, 2011 19:34:58 GMT
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Argenta injections bits sometimes crop up on ebay. can be stupid money though
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Mar 24, 2011 21:28:11 GMT
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^^ That surprises me, I wonder who's buying them!!!! If the ECU is kippered hopefully it can be fixed using old 'speak n spell' parts.
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Last Edit: Mar 24, 2011 22:02:08 GMT by xbo11ox
1974 Lancia Beta Saloon 1975 Mazda 929 Coupé 1986 Mazda 929 Wagon 1979 Mazda 929 Hardtop 1982 Fiat Argenta 2.0 iniezione elettronica 1977 Toyota Carina TA14 1989 Subaru 1800 Wagon 1982 Hyundai Pony 1200TL 2-dr 1985 Hyundai Pony 1200 GL 1986 Maserati 425 Biturbo 1992 Rover 214 SEi 5-dr 2000 Rover 45 V6 Club 1994 Peugeot 205 'Junior' Diesel 1988 Volvo 760 Turbodiesel Saloon 1992 Talbot Express Autosleeper Rambler 2003 Renault Laguna SPEARS OR REAPERS
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Mar 25, 2011 14:28:58 GMT
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Nice purchase on the Avenger, mr xbollox; my first car was 78 Chrysler avenger GL 1.6 Auto; I see yours is also a GL with the rust encoragement chrome grille surround/edge of bonnet trim, revcounter and clock in the centre console.
It was great to do 'spin the rear wheels' and create a big cloud of dust and gravel -drifting before the term was invented...
Mine wasd a blue saloon, and it had a severe case of 'rust-osis' front chassis leg went all wobbly and flakey, making for interesting handling - got it welded with 5mm plate patch by a local hack, but his arc welds didnt hold so I was back to sloppy handling and steering. the boot floor sills and headlamp 'boxes' all flaked into nothing (places to investigate on your own as the chrysler versions of the avengers seemed to have ill thought out 'additions' to fit the bigger lamps).... I later found, coincidentially a dead engined povertey spec orange chrysler avenger which had a minty body but it was dug into the ground- liderated it of all unboltable panels to revive my own -'new'/better/solid wings n doors, and handpainted the whole thing blue again... I was 16 doing all of this, sio had zero cash - I later weighed it in when the brakes became nonexistant and the auto box died... I was told by a slippers and pipe restorer it was a rare car when I had it on the road, and I should 'look after at it' and take all the 'street machine' weekend warrior'/lady luck' stickers off it... but I never heeded this 'wisdom'...
Anyhow, Best of luck with it, looks like a nice one, and the rest of your projects - I do enjoy reading this tread!!
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Mar 25, 2011 14:57:24 GMT
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Man, that's by far the best spray can paint job I've ever seen! I've never had much success with metallics in spray cans. It usually ends up looking a bit patchy but that's a full on bodyshop grade finish! That pump might have packed in because of crud from the tank. It only takes the tiniest bit of dirt to jam those pumps solid. I did a couple in short order on my 510 before fitting a pre-filter which cured it. Anyway, consider yourself fully re-funded
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1962 Datsun Bluebird Estate - 1971 Datsun 510 SSS - 1976 Datsun 710 SSS - 1981 Dodge van - 1985 Nissan Cherry Europe GTi - 1988 Nissan Prairie - 1990 Hyundai Pony Pickup - 1992 Mazda MX5
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Mar 25, 2011 20:50:06 GMT
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awsome work !! can i ask why you used the aerosols rather than than bosch gun you have previously used, and what modifying to that gun did you have to do to get it spraying fine? keep up the good work its amazing the lengths yougo to
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Mar 26, 2011 23:35:01 GMT
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Hey i've been on this today and am struggling so am looking for help! All suggestions gratefully recieved as long as they're not rude. What I have found is the following.
1) If you give the Fiat a blast of easy start it roars into life immediately then dies again as soon as its burned it all. So that tells me that its defo got a fuelling problem.
2) If you pop one of the plugs off an injector and check the voltage of the connector pins with the ignition on, they're both 12v. I'm sure that can't be right. I thought one should be 12v and the other one zero, the zero one being the earth side which is completed in the ECU.
3) If you measure the voltage at the connector plug while cranking it goes down to about 9v. I think thats not a stady 9v but actually the 12v pulse happening too quickly for my crummy multimeter to keep up with it. This is the same on both pins in the connector with the connector unplugged.
I cant understand why theres 12v at both connecttor pins, the side that goes to the ECU i'm sure should be 0v. does anyone have any views about that?
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1974 Lancia Beta Saloon 1975 Mazda 929 Coupé 1986 Mazda 929 Wagon 1979 Mazda 929 Hardtop 1982 Fiat Argenta 2.0 iniezione elettronica 1977 Toyota Carina TA14 1989 Subaru 1800 Wagon 1982 Hyundai Pony 1200TL 2-dr 1985 Hyundai Pony 1200 GL 1986 Maserati 425 Biturbo 1992 Rover 214 SEi 5-dr 2000 Rover 45 V6 Club 1994 Peugeot 205 'Junior' Diesel 1988 Volvo 760 Turbodiesel Saloon 1992 Talbot Express Autosleeper Rambler 2003 Renault Laguna SPEARS OR REAPERS
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Connected both sides will be at battery voltage relative to the battery - terminal. That's normal.
What it does (or rather, should do) is pulse one side to ground briefly and then disconnect; this connect/disconnect cycle causes the injector to pulse.
Put the multimeter across the battery when you're cranking it. If it drops to about 9v there's your drop. The pulses occur too quickly for a regular digital multimeter to register. You ideally need a storage oscilloscope to look at the waveform, of both voltage and current draw.
Maybe you just don't have fuel pressure on the rail if the relief diaphragm has stuck open or split, it may just be circulating the fuel to and from the tank. That'd be my next place to stop and check. Not sure what the injector rail pressure should be at atmospheric (engine not running). Does it have Magneti-Marelli or Bosch injection?
--Phil
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Cheers Phil, its Bosch L-Jetronic. The Magneti Marelli bits are in fact the ignition system. Connected both sides will be at battery voltage relative to the battery - terminal. That's normal. What about with the injector plug disconnected?
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Last Edit: Mar 27, 2011 9:26:01 GMT by xbo11ox
1974 Lancia Beta Saloon 1975 Mazda 929 Coupé 1986 Mazda 929 Wagon 1979 Mazda 929 Hardtop 1982 Fiat Argenta 2.0 iniezione elettronica 1977 Toyota Carina TA14 1989 Subaru 1800 Wagon 1982 Hyundai Pony 1200TL 2-dr 1985 Hyundai Pony 1200 GL 1986 Maserati 425 Biturbo 1992 Rover 214 SEi 5-dr 2000 Rover 45 V6 Club 1994 Peugeot 205 'Junior' Diesel 1988 Volvo 760 Turbodiesel Saloon 1992 Talbot Express Autosleeper Rambler 2003 Renault Laguna SPEARS OR REAPERS
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Mar 27, 2011 12:48:12 GMT
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The ECU might have a pull-up resistor which makes the ground path 12V when the transistor is switched off - but then again it might not.
As said, it's worth checking the voltage at the battery when cranking it over to make sure that you 9V isn't just the battery voltage drop.
If you were to measure the voltage across the pins of the injector plug it shouldn't matter whether the injector is connected or not.
It might be worth finding an analogue multimeter - a £5 cheapo from ebay would be fine - since you can see what's happening more easily. I'd connect it between the pins of the injector plug before turning the engine over. The needle should try to jump between 0V and 12V - but it won't be able to respond quickly enough. Instead, it'll hover at some mid point - probably only a few volts - and wiggle back and forth a little. Less accurate than a digital multimeter, but changes in voltage are more visible.
A few thoughts: -In most (all?) this sort of injection just takes a signal from the ignition coil, so there's no crank sensor to worry about (although there may be one purely for connecting a Crypton-type diagnostics setup). Since it fires on easy start, I agree that the problem is definitely fuelling.
To test the injection, it might be helpful to take the dizzy off and spin it by hand rather then turning the engine over - you should then be able to hear the injectors fire and the fuel pump running. Without the engine turning it's much easier to hear what's happening.
I wouldn't worry too much about the ECU - unless it sat underwater when it was in storage. I'd be looking at the signal from the ignition to the ECU, the ECU earths, and the fuses and relays.
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Siert
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,105
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Mar 27, 2011 16:34:18 GMT
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Cheers Phil, its Bosch L-Jetronic. The Magneti Marelli bits are in fact the ignition system. Connected both sides will be at battery voltage relative to the battery - terminal. That's normal. What about with the injector plug disconnected? Is your fuel pump working? The L-jetronic uses a silly relay for detecting whether the engine is running based on the tacho pulse (at least in Peugeots) and I still haven't gotten mine to work... I'd wire the pump straight to the battery or replace the special relay by a normal one switched on the ignition and see if the engine will start then.
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Mar 27, 2011 18:55:23 GMT
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I have done that! The fuel pump is defo buzzing away. I don't know what the fuel pressure is admittedly, if the regulator is borked I would not know it. Might get a pressure gauge and check it aaaaahhhht.
The relay does haave problems like, it has never powered up the fuel pump since i've had the car. I have just found another relay pack as it happens (same as an alfa GTV6) so I will bosh that on and see what happens. BISH BOSH MATE!
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1974 Lancia Beta Saloon 1975 Mazda 929 Coupé 1986 Mazda 929 Wagon 1979 Mazda 929 Hardtop 1982 Fiat Argenta 2.0 iniezione elettronica 1977 Toyota Carina TA14 1989 Subaru 1800 Wagon 1982 Hyundai Pony 1200TL 2-dr 1985 Hyundai Pony 1200 GL 1986 Maserati 425 Biturbo 1992 Rover 214 SEi 5-dr 2000 Rover 45 V6 Club 1994 Peugeot 205 'Junior' Diesel 1988 Volvo 760 Turbodiesel Saloon 1992 Talbot Express Autosleeper Rambler 2003 Renault Laguna SPEARS OR REAPERS
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Macoli
Part of things
Posts: 181
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Mar 27, 2011 20:02:23 GMT
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What type of airflow meter's on these? If it's the old toilet seat-type, it might be an idea to see what resistivity it's showing. Also, old knackered HT leads, despite providing a spark, can interfere with any speed signal going to the ECU.
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Wanted: mk2 Cavalier front valence
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Mar 27, 2011 20:11:46 GMT
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Its got one of those with a right-angled swinging flap type thing, looks a bit like this: I have fathomed out the pinouts and that so next step is to start checking ECU earths and this signal from the ignition side I think. Would have done it today if I hadnt got embroiled in a load of plumbing work thats all gone horribly wrong and wasted the day.
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1974 Lancia Beta Saloon 1975 Mazda 929 Coupé 1986 Mazda 929 Wagon 1979 Mazda 929 Hardtop 1982 Fiat Argenta 2.0 iniezione elettronica 1977 Toyota Carina TA14 1989 Subaru 1800 Wagon 1982 Hyundai Pony 1200TL 2-dr 1985 Hyundai Pony 1200 GL 1986 Maserati 425 Biturbo 1992 Rover 214 SEi 5-dr 2000 Rover 45 V6 Club 1994 Peugeot 205 'Junior' Diesel 1988 Volvo 760 Turbodiesel Saloon 1992 Talbot Express Autosleeper Rambler 2003 Renault Laguna SPEARS OR REAPERS
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mirafioriman
Posted a lot
My next project.......
Posts: 1,361
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Mar 27, 2011 21:18:51 GMT
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my Argenta won't start either (fueling problem too) but as it's a carb engine it's either no fuel in the tank or a faulty pump
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mrj
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,662
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Mar 27, 2011 21:54:21 GMT
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maybe i sound daft, but did you check, if fuel is coming from the tank ? On a similar occasion in the past (that Type 25 engine conversion) we mismatched the return line from the tank and the pump was running, but no fuel came to the injectors ....
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- 1971 VW 1600 TL Fastback - 1978 Passat GLS Variant - 1980 Audi 100 5E - 1981 VW aircooled panel van (sold) - 1983 VW Jetta Mk.I - 1984 VW Polo Coupé - 1984 VW Passat hatchback - 1987 VW Passat Variant - 1987 VW Passat hatchback - 1988 VW T25
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Yeah theres defo fuel coming through.
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1974 Lancia Beta Saloon 1975 Mazda 929 Coupé 1986 Mazda 929 Wagon 1979 Mazda 929 Hardtop 1982 Fiat Argenta 2.0 iniezione elettronica 1977 Toyota Carina TA14 1989 Subaru 1800 Wagon 1982 Hyundai Pony 1200TL 2-dr 1985 Hyundai Pony 1200 GL 1986 Maserati 425 Biturbo 1992 Rover 214 SEi 5-dr 2000 Rover 45 V6 Club 1994 Peugeot 205 'Junior' Diesel 1988 Volvo 760 Turbodiesel Saloon 1992 Talbot Express Autosleeper Rambler 2003 Renault Laguna SPEARS OR REAPERS
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