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Apr 15, 2005 20:58:46 GMT
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It's all over.
SAIC have pulled out.
5,000 jobs gone.
12,000 shaky elsewhere.
Factory to be mothballed.
Govt. to give £150million to retrain the staff as brainless call-centre morons.
(John Towers "devastated". Yeah right. I'd be "devastated too with £10m in me sky-rocket.)
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Last Edit: Apr 15, 2005 21:00:29 GMT by nickb
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Apr 15, 2005 21:44:27 GMT
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Tragic for all the workers. It's sad that the Rover legend is over too. The "devastated" rich Rover bosses who've fled with all the money don't deserve any sympathy, they need shot the lot of them. It's no wonder I'm a red when that's what bosses do to their loyal workers in times of crisis! Not to mention all the suppliers, who Rover bosses claim are responsible, merely because they demanded payment, well how else are they to keep their workers paid? And naturally the Chinese will be blamed, (SAIC in particular, but naturally the ignorant bosses and government will blame China and it's people in general and make sweeping generalisations about 'the dastardly Chinese' betraying them and pulling out.) but can you really blame SAIC and the Chinese Government (another shower of lying scheming people-abusing b*stards, but that's another story and not relevant here) for pulling out, when their cash injections would likely have just gone down a huge financial black hole, and they'd have ended up in a similar mess to Rover in no time at all? There was no betrayal there, just common sense.
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"He's not the messiah, he's a very naughty boy!"
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Apr 15, 2005 22:05:03 GMT
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Its just unbelievable, what has happened. Tragic. Its so shameful that it can be allowed to happen, in the UK of all places. A place that loves cars as much as the UK, cannot manage to support a single UK based and owned manufacturer. I apportion blame like this:
33% Rover management for lousy decisions (flogging their factory and the rights to their own products, just before chucking in the towel? What the f***?)
33% on the government - they should have kept a closer 'eye' on the P4, knowing that if they screwed up, the UK would have NO car industry of its own any more
34% on the public, for their total lack of any sort of loyalty or pride in home-grown products.
I strongly suspect 8 out of ten random passers by would, if asked about MGR, say absent-mindedly 'yeah well its a shame about those workers at MGR but, the cars were not up to much (despite never having inspected one) and UK manufacturing is dead anyway' before popping into Starbucks then driving off in their BMW 320D.
Oh and i'll add another 10% onto the press (including Clarkson who, appallingly, has been cracking a few MGR 'jokes' on Have I got News for You tonight!) for their constant doom-mongering, whinging and slagging of MGR for no apparent reason. Tossers.
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1972 Fiat 130 1985 Talbot Alpine 1974 Lancia Beta Saloon 1975 + 1986 Mazda 929 Koop + Wagon 1982 Fiat Argenta 2.0 iniezione elettronica 1977 Toyota Carina TA14 BEST CAR EVER!!!!!!!! 1979 Datsun B310 Sunny 4-dr 1984 Audi 200 Quattro Turbo 1983 Honda Accord 1.6 DX GONE1989 Alfa 75 2.0 TS Mr T says: TREAT YO MOTHER RIGHT!
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Apr 15, 2005 22:27:55 GMT
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Its just unbelievable, what has happened. Tragic. Its so shameful that it can be allowed to happen, in the UK of all places. A place that loves cars as much as the UK, cannot manage to support a single UK based and owned manufacturer. I apportion blame like this: 33% Rover management for lousy decisions (flogging their factory and the rights to their own products, just before chucking in the towel? What the f***?) 33% on the government - they should have kept a closer 'eye' on the P4, knowing that if they screwed up, the UK would have NO car industry of its own any more 34% on the public, for their total lack of any sort of loyalty or pride in home-grown products. I strongly suspect 8 out of ten random passers by would, if asked about MGR, say absent-mindedly 'yeah well its a shame about those workers at MGR but, the cars were not up to much (despite never having inspected one) and UK manufacturing is dead anyway' before popping into Starbucks then driving off in their BMW 320D. Oh and i'll add another 10% onto the press (including Clarkson who, appallingly, has been cracking a few MGR 'jokes' on Have I got News for You tonight!) for their constant doom-mongering, whinging and slagging of MGR for no apparent reason. Tossers. why should the british public have to buy a rover just because it is built in england? why should we have to pay out 10k, for a car that has roots going back to the 80s??? and, you can't blame the media for mooking of MG ROVER, they haven't made a good car in years, other than the 75...
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richy
Posted a lot
Flatheads forever....
Posts: 1,764
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I'm concerned that the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders hasn't said anything yet. I'd have hoped they might have made some statement about lack of government support all along...
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why should the british public have to buy a rover just because it is built in england? why should we have to pay out 10k, for a car that has roots going back to the 80s??? and, you can't blame the media for mooking of MG ROVER, they haven't made a good car in years, other than the 75... well, please yourself, but I would have been proud to have a MG ZR, a ZS 180 or a rover 75, theres nothing wrong with those cars. Perhaps if I had, MGR would have been that tiny bit closer to launching a new model. I would defo have bought one before I bought a 206 or whatever. I would have placed 'buying british' somewhere in my list of priorities, not necessarily at the top but it would have been in there. Of course the public should not have to buy one just cos it is built in england, that is ridiculous. But the germans buy german casr, the french buy french cars, the italians buy italian cars, we buy..... german mainly.
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1972 Fiat 130 1985 Talbot Alpine 1974 Lancia Beta Saloon 1975 + 1986 Mazda 929 Koop + Wagon 1982 Fiat Argenta 2.0 iniezione elettronica 1977 Toyota Carina TA14 BEST CAR EVER!!!!!!!! 1979 Datsun B310 Sunny 4-dr 1984 Audi 200 Quattro Turbo 1983 Honda Accord 1.6 DX GONE1989 Alfa 75 2.0 TS Mr T says: TREAT YO MOTHER RIGHT!
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don't take it personally mr. plums... this is my opinion... but, i don't think i'd really be happy with an MG ZR, coz you look like a prick in a rover 25 with a body kit, and i suspect for the price your not far off the Fabia vRS or 206 GTi 180. Thats the problem with the MG range, they look like ROVERs that have slipped into the hands of boy racers (they were getting somewhere with the last look ZS- but the smoothed tail gate ruined it), and there is always the thought at the back of your head you could of had something faster for about the same amount. I was going to go and get some performance figures to compare them to over cars but the MG ROVER website is down lol, so if anyone else can get them i'd like to see them.. because, for 15grand you can have an Octavia vRS, which gives you these kinds of performance, Engine CC 1781 Max Power bhp [kw]/rpm 180 [132] /5500 Max Torque lb.ft[Nm]/rpm 173 [235] /1950 Performance Max Speed mph [km/h] 146 [235] Acceleration 0-62mph 7.9 now, can the nearest MG for 15k match that?
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now, can the nearest MG for 15k match that?
You could probably get the whole range for 15k now ;D
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Apr 16, 2005 10:38:41 GMT
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well, please yourself, but I would have been proud to have a MG ZR, a ZS 180 or a rover 75, Have you Driven any of these? I've driven Rover 25s 45s and 75s. All less than 6 months old and compared to their rivals they were awful. Cramped, dated and Cheaply built. I'm not suprised MGR have gone bust. should have devloped a Focus sized hatch rather than waste their money on that SV thing.
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Apr 16, 2005 10:45:13 GMT
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And who's idea was this?
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Apr 16, 2005 10:52:55 GMT
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I'm not suprised MGR have gone bust. should have devloped a Focus sized hatch rather than waste their money on that SV thing. Hmm, cant disagree with that. The SV has very little/rag all to reccomend it. And I agree, whilst I would almost saw my tackle off for an MG ZS 180 they really did need some new metal.
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1972 Fiat 130 1985 Talbot Alpine 1974 Lancia Beta Saloon 1975 + 1986 Mazda 929 Koop + Wagon 1982 Fiat Argenta 2.0 iniezione elettronica 1977 Toyota Carina TA14 BEST CAR EVER!!!!!!!! 1979 Datsun B310 Sunny 4-dr 1984 Audi 200 Quattro Turbo 1983 Honda Accord 1.6 DX GONE1989 Alfa 75 2.0 TS Mr T says: TREAT YO MOTHER RIGHT!
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Apr 16, 2005 10:54:06 GMT
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And who's idea was this? I'd have one of those! I reckon I defo will in a few years when they are impossibly rare.
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1972 Fiat 130 1985 Talbot Alpine 1974 Lancia Beta Saloon 1975 + 1986 Mazda 929 Koop + Wagon 1982 Fiat Argenta 2.0 iniezione elettronica 1977 Toyota Carina TA14 BEST CAR EVER!!!!!!!! 1979 Datsun B310 Sunny 4-dr 1984 Audi 200 Quattro Turbo 1983 Honda Accord 1.6 DX GONE1989 Alfa 75 2.0 TS Mr T says: TREAT YO MOTHER RIGHT!
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Apr 16, 2005 10:59:05 GMT
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And who's idea was this? quite. that monstrosity falls into the same category of completely pointless as thiose "Police educational films" you got shown at school full of kids who do the right thing by saying "No" to pot. Those films were usually titled something like streetwise too. All they really achieved was making actually really want to smoke some dope. In reality, those kids would have got their heads kicked in. just like you'd be shamelessly ripped by your friends for all eternity if you owned something as desperately sad as the Rover "Streetwise"
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Last Edit: Apr 16, 2005 11:00:07 GMT by nickb
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Apr 16, 2005 11:13:48 GMT
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,whilst I would almost saw my tackle off for an MG ZS 180. You would saw your tackle off for a Rover 400 with a fisher price bodykit.
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Apr 16, 2005 11:21:18 GMT
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I said nearly! but, that means 'nearly, yeah i would'!
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1972 Fiat 130 1985 Talbot Alpine 1974 Lancia Beta Saloon 1975 + 1986 Mazda 929 Koop + Wagon 1982 Fiat Argenta 2.0 iniezione elettronica 1977 Toyota Carina TA14 BEST CAR EVER!!!!!!!! 1979 Datsun B310 Sunny 4-dr 1984 Audi 200 Quattro Turbo 1983 Honda Accord 1.6 DX GONE1989 Alfa 75 2.0 TS Mr T says: TREAT YO MOTHER RIGHT!
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Apr 16, 2005 12:23:57 GMT
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If they'd given the 'Streetwise' four wheel drive (I'm thinking original Panda 4x4, a little car that actually had offroad potential) and a decent name, along the lines of other car based 4x4s like Audis Allroad models, rather than the kind of name that you can tell was thought of by some desperately out of touch guys verging on becoming old guys who reckoned calling it "Streetwise" would make it a hit with younger drivers and make it look dead cool, they might have actually done well, but as some front wheel drive hatch with higher ride height and black bumpers but no advantages over a normal one, it' just pointless. Oh, and NickB, I know what you mean about the educational films and the like in schools. We used to get a couple of coppers coming in with videos about what drugs, knives and everything else that most of the school was packing already would do to your life (I was one of the only working class kids in that school who didn't have a major drink and/or drugs habit! ) and basically all the time they were there, they would get laughed at, have paper thrown at them, have some neds up the back making impressions of them while they talked, so that by the time the coppers retreated back to the station, not a blind bit of notice had been paid to them and most of the kids in the place still thought doing pot or coke was dead cool, just that they now also thought it was great fun to laugh at coppers (well, round here we called them "The Polis", possibly because that's how it's pronounced in Scottish Gaelic (not the same as Irish Gaelic, which is pronounced differently and a lot of the words are quite different, they're really different languages but with a few similarities) so whenever we were out doing anything a little dodgy there would usually be screams of "Bolt, it's the Polis!" followed by loads of running away! ;D ;D ;D
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"He's not the messiah, he's a very naughty boy!"
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Apr 16, 2005 21:02:54 GMT
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it's still hard to belive that Rovers gone but not surprising really. Hopefully the workers will find work elsewhere. The Streetwise sums it all up. Rover got desperate and just didnt have the cars that the public wanted.
Maybe we should always buy British but.... My Mobile phone was made in Finland, My TV DVD stereo and Video came from Japan. My Jeans are American the company I work for is French and even my dog is Norwegian.
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Last Edit: Apr 16, 2005 21:03:39 GMT by ImpJimbo
BS Nymph Singer Chamois Coupe Series 3 Landy
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So, Rovers gone bust then!BenzBoy
@benzboy
Club Retro Rides Member 7
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Apr 16, 2005 21:55:23 GMT
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I think it's wrong to say that all of MG Rover's cars were /are curse word. The MG ZT is excellent (not the diesel one though ), the 75 is way better looking inside and out than, say, a Mundano (and it won car of the year if I'm not mistaken.... not that that means much!). The Streetwise is cringe-making though ain't it? Like yer dad dancing at a wedding or something. I wouldn't be surprised if the Rover Groovy was on the drawing board somewhere too! I've heard that new MGs and Rovers are gonna be flogged off incredibly cheap (like half price kinda cheap) - some dealers have already slashed prices. Most people would be put off by the lack of dealer support, but to be honest I couldn't care less about that! If I had a few grand in my pocket I'd go and buy a ZT for next to nowt and blast around in that for sure!
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Apr 16, 2005 22:26:18 GMT
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I think simply condemning the people for not buying British all the time isn't really a good policy myself. As Impjimbo says these days everything's foreign, you don't see all that many British products.
The world's a different place now than it was in the 60s and 70s. Then foreign cars were a lot more unusual, and there were still plenty of people who ridiculed and feared foreign cars and products. Also in the 60s there were many more British models to choose from, from a huge number of manufacturers, and less foreign models to choose from as a number of manufacturers, eg a number of the now popular Japanese brands, did import here, but the cars weren't hugely popular, while many of the good value South-East Asian brands there are now (Daewoo, now a branch of Chevy but still producing in the same factory) and Hyundai simply didn't exist back then.
The result of there being less British cars to choose from, and more foreign cars to choose from, is that naturally a higher proportion of the cars we buy aren't from Britain, and a lower proportion are. This isn't necessarily a sign that we're all malicious anti-patriots who are sabotaging British industry, it's just that whearas years ago someone looking for a new car might have considered a large number of British models and possibly a few foreign ones, nowadays foreign cars are more numerous, so logically someone looking for a new car is more often going to look at a foreign car than a locally made one.
Now, considering that Rovers were inarguably behind their rivals in a number of areas, (eg updating their model ranges, the models themselves, I mean how exactly is the Citirover or the Streetwise to supposed to be a competitive car in it's respective marketplace) this further increases the chance that someone will pick a foreign car as opposed to a British model. Now, I have no doubt that in some ways MG Rovers were a match for the competition. But the only way they were going to make everyone in Britain buy one of their cars is if all their cars were truly fantastic, and eclipsed all rivals in all areas. This was certainly not the case.
I believe that blind patriotism is a dangerous thing. It helped Hitler to get millions more people to support him than would otherwise be the case; it has helped George W Bush to convince the American people that they alone were the glorious defenders of democracy in a world of evil terrorists and as such must support all his ridiculous greedy wars over oil and personal grudges; it almost caused World War Three during the Cold War several times by clouding the judgement of powerful people on both sides of the Iron Curtain; so surely no good can come of the British people being so filled with blind "We're Number 1! We're Number 1!" inducing patriotism that everyone believes everything made outside the UK is the work of the devil and inferior at that, and that we all have to buy things that are British simply because they're British so they must be good. That sort of delusion would result in us being ripped off royally I reckon, because big companies, while it would be nice that they weren't going belly up, would realise that they could get away with selling us all sorts of inferior cack, simply because we'd buy it over a superior foreign product anyday. Besides that a belief that everything we do is superior to everything foreigners do is nothing but ignorant and disgusting fascism, so I certainly don't believe that we should all be convincing ourselves that we're better than the competition simply by virtue of nationality. If the people chose not to buy Rovers, that was their choice. It is a great tragedy that a lot of jobs have been lost at Longbridge, but I blame greedy management who've bolted with all the cash, bad management decisions that have been going on for decades past, and Rovers products just not being attractive to the buyers, regardless of how good they were, (the Imp was very poorly marketed and had a bad reputation, as such it wasn't attractive to the buyers, it was a brilliant car, but it was still a brilliant car that wasn't popular with consumers).
I don't blame freedom of choice.
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"He's not the messiah, he's a very naughty boy!"
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