jonomisfit
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 1,780
Club RR Member Number: 49
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Nov 20, 2023 20:55:56 GMT
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After a mere 30 years of procrastinating (which even for me is a record) I have decided I want to go rallying. Its difficult to pinpoint exactly why I like rallying but I have from about as far back as I can remember. I think it stems from a number of areas: my dad used to compete in rallys up until I was about 6 so there was bits and pieces around the house (including a very very vague memory of watching 6R4's on TV, and my dads mate turning up with an ex-works Mk2 golf rally car and getting to sit in it and flip switches, there were lots of switches) I hit my important teen years as the Escort Cosworth/Impreza were at the peak (hence my untold delight at being able to get an escort and the thread i've got on that) As I started to get interested in rallying it was prime 90's WRC teritory with the impreza WRC, focus wrc, lancer evo 6, etc. I like the concept of each pass down a stage is relatively blind and its a in real world context (trees or stone walls). [/li] My intent is this thread is going to be an ongoing capture of my journey from knowing nothing, to getting through the process of getting licensed, buying a car, and getting into competition, along with how that progresses over time (or doesnt if I decide I don't like it). I'm going to cover lots of boring things, liek budgets and expense, time spent doign things etc. It might not be that interesting, but i'll have a record about what I've been up to look back on. So, whats my ambition? What i'd like to do is jump straight in buy a decent turbo AWD car, sign up for a full championship, and get out there and drive like a legend. Jump in feet first, just how I like it. However I think this is a recipie for me taking a lot of money and flushing it down the toilet. Mainly as I'll crash, ruin an expensive car, have spanked money on entry fee's, get dissolusioned, and give up. So what am I going to do? Mainly. Be sensible. I'm going to start small and cheap (probably 1000/1400/1600 class), look to try a few different events in 2024 (ideally 1 single venue, 1 tarmac, 1 gravel) and if I then enjoy it look to do a much larger range of things in 2025 includig a full championship somewhere. There's a long way to go between today and there though. What first? Handily the MSA got there before me and thought other N00Bs like me may need some info. www.motorsportuk.org/get-started/types-of-motor-sport/rallying/"Go rallying starter pack" it is. £104 (although most of the cost is reimbursed back against your first years license apparently). Which promptly arrived. Come with a nice key ring, a guide book, and acecss to some MSA videos giving guidance on what to do next. It also has a copy of the "blue book" which I promptly read. Next step i've got to sit a British Association of Rally School (BARS) test in order to be able to apply for my license.
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Last Edit: Aug 14, 2024 21:06:26 GMT by jonomisfit
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jonomisfit
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 1,780
Club RR Member Number: 49
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Nov 20, 2023 21:18:22 GMT
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Turns out there arent that many places in the UK that do the BARS test. I live in south Cumbria, none of them are amazingly conveinient for me. However, Knockhill is handily just the other side of the hills from my dads place in Scotland. Plus the road from auchetarder to knockhill over glendevon is a good fun drive and I used to have to do it twice a week for 3 years when younger. Knochill it is. www.knockhill.com/experiences/competition-licenceOuch, that is not cheap. £325. Exam, in car coaching and test (total time 4.5hrs) Hmm, just check some of the others Phil price - £195 exam, in car test (10 mins), total time 2hrs), or extended BARS - £390 exam, tuition / practice in the car, and driving test I checked the others as well, all pretty much as much a much for the expense, plus I'd likely need to stay over. Knockhill it is. Booked. £325 I called and arranged the date. I could have done it today (20/11/23) but am away with work this week, so next available date it is. 26th Jan 2024. This is starting to feel a bit real now. Whats next? Motor club. Total cost to date £429.
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Last Edit: Nov 20, 2023 21:18:37 GMT by jonomisfit
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Darkspeed
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,812
Club RR Member Number: 39
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Nov 20, 2023 21:53:17 GMT
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Good luck with it all and thanks for taking us along for the journey ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png)
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jimi
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,043
Member is Online
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Nov 20, 2023 23:50:12 GMT
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However, Knockhill is handily just the other side of the hills from my dads place in Scotland. Plus the road from auchetarder to knockhill over glendevon is a good fun drive and I used to have to do it twice a week for 3 years when younger. 👍 That's a nice drive, done it many times, it's just a few miles from me. I did it twice in August in the MR2 when I went to Gleneagles 😎
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Black is not a colour ! .... Its the absence of colour![](https://jlawson.co.uk/images/Jimisig04.jpg)
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Nov 20, 2023 23:55:16 GMT
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Something I considered many times but will probably never do. I have a full day Rally Experience to do this Spring. Will follow along though.
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ems1
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 310
Club RR Member Number: 5
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Nov 21, 2023 19:42:16 GMT
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1985 Manta GT/E 16v 2001 VW T4 Caravelle
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jonomisfit
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 1,780
Club RR Member Number: 49
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Nov 21, 2023 21:16:36 GMT
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Probably so, but thats what i've got my heart set on so i'm going for it. I will keep this thread going, and honest, so it will document how good and badly it goes for me! My aim is to try both. I wont be able to tell what I enjoy the most if I don't try them both. Not sure If i'll get over to Keilder, but the weekend after (3rd December) is Grizedale stages ( Grizedale Stages), which is about 20 mins from my house. Right Go Rally pack, check Booked BARS, check Next step, join a local motor club. A quick google. Oh, there's quite a few Wait a minute google.... half of these arent motor clubs.To the MSA website. www.motorsportuk.org/clubs-organisers/find-clubs/Which has a handy search feature for radius around a postcode.... which my experience shows doesnt work very well..... Closest ones to me Furness District (who's website circles round to the grizedale stages website and has no info on the club itself) Kirkby Lonsdale West Cumbria Wigton Eden Valey Turns out, quite a few. A bit of checks of websites, maps, and a few emails show Furness is now a committe for the Grizedale stages only, and the west cumbrian ones are a travel to get to. Kirkby Lonsdale MC it is www.klmc.co.uk/Handily they meet monthly at the Gilpin Bridge Inn, which is about 20 minutes away from me. They also run road rallies, support run stage events (Malcom Wilson Rally), and event at Barbon hillclimb. They are also part of the Association of North east and cumbrian car clubs, and the Association of North West car clubs. I paid my dues, £15, and went to the recent session (15th Nov) to meet some people. Very friendly and helpful, and a few live pretty near to me. I also got put in contact with a couple of local codrivers, which will undoubtedly be useful. I was also chatting to some people I know through work, and do car build related things in their spare time, about deciding to go rallying and I've a couple of volunteers for service crew. Will see how that goes when i'm actually gearing up for events. Hmmm. I probably need to make a plan and start working out some budgets. Total cost to date £444.
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Last Edit: Nov 21, 2023 21:20:09 GMT by jonomisfit
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mrbig
Part of things
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Semi-professional Procrastinator
Posts: 486
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Nov 23, 2023 15:28:50 GMT
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Excellent stuff. Watching with interest. Knockhill is veeeery long way from me, but always looks like a great track to drive!
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1969 German Look Beetle - in progress
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jonomisfit
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 1,780
Club RR Member Number: 49
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Nov 23, 2023 21:08:54 GMT
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Having made a start, put together an idea of what I want to do, i need to start working out a detailed plan of how to get there. I fiddled in excel and made a start planning out a few things. There's a lot more too it than shown. But its still not complete. General sequence of events are: Decide what i'm doing with the contents of my garage to make space - see here. forum.retro-rides.org/thread/225944/quandary-sell - Still unresolved Buy a tow vehicle Buy a trailer Buy a rally car Enter some events So my next mission, is work out what vehicle to go for as a tow/service vehicle. I think something with a circa 2000kg tow capability (weight of car & trailer, and spares) At the moment i'm contemplating Large 4x4's (discovery's, etc) 4x4 pickups (L200, nissan navara etc.) Large saloon (A6 allroad, BMW 330d touring, etc.) and as an oddball a Skoda Yeti 2.0d 4x4 which gets very good reviews for pulling 2000kg caravans Anyone have any thoughts / experiences / recomendations on a tow vehicle?
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Nov 24, 2023 23:24:20 GMT
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Have you thought about a small transit beavertail or similar, might be cheaper than a tow vehicle and trailer, and you're not limited to 60 on the motorway/dual carriageways? If you only need 1600kg payload there are a lot of options...
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jonomisfit
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 1,780
Club RR Member Number: 49
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Nov 27, 2023 20:49:34 GMT
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I've started looking into tow vehicles, and at the moment the list is:
Skoda Yeti - 2.0td 4x4 - This get ridiculously good reviews online for towing 2000kg caravans. Surprisingly so. Good bits are its smallish, I can take it to the tip without a once per month pass, with the rear seats removed (which come out easily) there is a fair amount of space to carry some spares, and fuel economy is not bad. Cons. May be a bit small to carry the right amount of spares / wheels etc., it will easily get messed up inside, and it may simply be too small /limited tow weight to tow a car on trailer and carry everything else.
A circa 10 year old discovery. Online reviews say its highly rated as a tow vehicle and will happily tow up to 3500kg. With plenty of space in the back for stuff and people, althought a high lift to get in the boot. The downsides seem to be they have some issues with electrics and suspesion from what I can read. Some reviews say its made it into the top 10 least reliable cars.
A 4x4 pickup (L200, Navara, etc.) Farmer specials will easily pull 3500kg and loads come with towbars fitted. The pickup aspect will be handily flexible for carrying spares etc. in the back (especially with a truckman style bed top to keep all dry) so lots of flexibility. A read on line shows a risk of older 4x4 (especially farmer specials) run the risk of over axle chassis rust / weakening leading to repairs / strengthening needed, especially if they have done a lot of hard towing. A chat with my mate who drives all over scotland towing plant equipment on a regular basis advised unless doing regular off highway driving in it, somethine like a Disco / X5 will be a lot more comfortable on the road.
A ford transit / renault traffic etc. Will pull 2000/2500kg, will have plenty of space for spares etc. in the back, will have no issue with carpeted boot space gettign messed up, can get in crew variant with ~6 seats + load space, they are designed for carrying loads. The seem fairly simple and not overly expensive to repair / service. A van is always going to be less comfortable than a car / 4x4 for journeys, and a load of transits for sale appear to be farily low spec.
At the moment i'm leaning more towards a transit crew cab. Its tow / carry ability is good, it would still be OK as a daily driver, and being a crew cab hits some of what my wife has been pestering me about which is a vehicle we can take out and about on day trips are cart bikes / child / the inordinate amount of stuff needed for going out the house for 3hrs of a day....
Anyone got any experiences with a circa 5 year old transit for towing / drivign / using regularly?
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Dec 10, 2023 15:01:42 GMT
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Dec 10, 2023 19:49:14 GMT
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It’s good to see you’ve made a positive step to fulfill your rally dream. I did my BARS test probably about 10 years ago (can’t remember exactly), but still haven’t got round to driving in a stage rally yet as the car is nowhere near ready. It might be a bit late now, but joining a club and seeing who else needs to do the BARS is a good idea as we went as a group of 6 to Phil Price and got a good discount. There’s always new club members wanting to do it.
What I have done, which is a good experience, is done some navigating for my nephew. It’s given me a good insight on what to expect when I eventually turn up to an event with my own car. Scrutineering, signing on, paperwork, queuing to start, rally etiquette on stage etc. I’m not saying I won’t be nervous at my first event but at least I’ll know some basics. There’s always someone wanting a nav for an event.
I’ve been competing since ‘96 and have had numerous tow vehicles. Estates, hatchbacks and 4x4s. I bought a traffic a couple of years ago as everything else is a pain. Go to a rally and look around the service area. Everyone has a van. I’ve got 2 seats in the back that are removable if I use the van for anything else. It’s a lot easier to put your race suit on in a dry van than a wet car park.
Add a good Gazebo to your list
Enjoy
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jonomisfit
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 1,780
Club RR Member Number: 49
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Dec 10, 2023 20:19:40 GMT
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Thanks folks, much appreciate the input.
Gazebo added to the ever growing procurement list.
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Dec 12, 2023 15:09:56 GMT
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List of things we usually take / I insist on when I run service for my mate. I’ve broken it down into essential and "nice to Have"
Essential
Ground sheet, (not a tarp, they rip the moment you put a jack on them, curtain sider type material last years (you need one as per the rules) AFFF hand held Fire Extinguisher (see above re-rules) Jerry cans with your name & place to put you car number on fireproof balaclava for refueler (days of refuelling when the car is up on the stands in service are gone) Jerry can spout (saves getting wet and flammable feet) good fuel funnel axle stands stable jack (not one of El Cheapo halfords / aldi specials) roll up ramps (if the car is too low to get the jack under) - I made ours from alloy checker plate battery nut gun for service (you ideally have a separate one in the car) lighting, both hand held and on a stand of some sort.
Generator. Powering important things like the kettle & lights Kettle & Tea and coffee making facilities Drinking water Folding table – somewhere to prep & put food / snacks on. Sweeping brush!!! (its bloody hurts when you lay down on a stone on the tarp under the car) also saves you from laying in mud etc. when working on the car.
Spares – just take ones you can realistically change in service with the tools your carrying. Dropping a gearbox in in between stages on a Single Venue Rally isn’t going to happen. Unless you have an WRC service team & quick release everything..
TOOLKIT - this warrants its own title a well sorted & organised kit of relevant tools - not a rummage fest in a disorganised & overly large tool box, ideally only take the spanners & sockets you actually need, doubling up on some common sizes on the car is a good shout if more than 1 person is servicing for you. – you have a limited time in service, working efficiently is key. battery drill - selection of sharp quality drill bits Tek Screws (I've held everything from wings to sump guards on with these in a pinch) selection of nuts and bolts in a variety of lengths Stanly knife Flush cut snips (will save your limbs from tiewrap based laserations) tote boxes (with the central handles on) for keeping tools, bolts, bits etc in one place when working on the car to stop them getting accidentally kicked across the service park, usually into a puddle Blue roll / giant kitchen roll latex / work gloves tyre pressure gauge tyre pump brake fluid bleeding kit, oil, gear oil, brake fluid, coolant etc etc. many many tiewraps - varying lengths. Gaffer tape torque wrench pre-set for your wheel nuts. - (You will swear whole heartedly if you can’t get the wheel off mid stage if you get a puncture, especially when the car nut gun goes flat and you have to risk your ankles jumping up and down on the wheelbrace, cos some cabbage in service has used all the ugga duggas)
Gazeebo (not essental,but a comfort when its pissdown or very sunny) ideally needs to be big enough to fit the whole car under. Something to sit on in between stages (camping chairs)
as for cars for sale I know of a logbooked / passported C2 for sale with an damn good finishing record, needs seats & harness’s – make a starter car as they are easily upgraded.
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Take the Next slot right coming up on the left.
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jonomisfit
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 1,780
Club RR Member Number: 49
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Dec 12, 2023 19:04:15 GMT
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Great input, thanks paulthewallMuch added to my to do list. Thankyou.
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Dec 13, 2023 10:15:57 GMT
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Anyone got any experiences with a circa 5 year old transit for towing / drivign / using regularly? Not a transit, but the Renault option. A good friend of mine has run one as a daily for years and I've spent quite a bit of time in it. Ideal for what you are looking for with space in the back, a decent ride (it'll be FAR more comfy than an L200 or similar), tows like a dream.
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Dec 14, 2023 16:29:22 GMT
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Glad you stepping into the sport - Ive been involved for 20 odd years now. If your definately wanting to do stage rallying, my recommendation would be to purchase something FWD, lowish powered, cheap to repair and most importantly reliable as a start point. Do a season of learning, starting with single venue events, learn how to get the speed out of the car and also decide if you want to commit more in terms of time and money. Id also suggest that you might like to try your hand at Targa rallies too... can have a reliable car for a few grand, cheap to enter and lots of fun, plus there were a few of them organised by KLDC recently. Towing wise, I evolved to having a Ford Ranger with Canopy as my daily (last 10 years now) to allow me to to do all the rallying stuff I'm involved in. That was after a VOSA pull of the Frontera I had meaning we were overweight on the axles and GVM. Ranger is a lot better load wise and as I also marshal, run stages etc then it works better. I started off in a 1.4 Nova then a 1.4 Astra Mk2, that became 1.6 16v and now 2.0 16v redtop and gradually improved spec wise.. Done pretty well with it, won event classes, few top 10s and won regional championships twice. Feel free to add me on FB or ping me any emails if you want some advice.. ![](https://www.dukeries-rally.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/P.Rees_Dukeries18-300x200.jpg) Paul..
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jonomisfit
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 1,780
Club RR Member Number: 49
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Dec 14, 2023 18:07:40 GMT
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Very much appreciate the input, thankyou.
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Dec 15, 2023 17:34:16 GMT
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I think you will struggle to keep a transit crew cab recovery under 3.5t with car, tools, parts, fuel, driver and service crew on board. Unladen a light build crew cab is going to close to 2000kg off the top of my head.
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