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With most of what was produced in the 90's now squarely into retro/classic territory I have to wonder, where has it all gone? This is the decade my driving story really begins though I also spent a lot of it working in bodyshops and main dealers. Mk 2 astra gte's both projects and finished cars are now common place at shows and for sale but when did you last see one of these? As a newly qualified teenager we all knew most hot novas had been ragged, stolen or more likely both, again now visible at most shows but where did all of these go? Through the 80s BMWs and Mercedes were for money people, even the 3 series was coveted around my neck of the woods, come the 90's you couldn't move for these things, but when did you last see one? In any spec And if you taxi arrived and it wasn't a 190 you'd wonder what you did to offend them
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Pressed create by mistake I remember these being cheap and plentiful in the early 2000s with mega spec but now a thing of the past Who remembers the gallant? Plenty 80s fords about but didn't anybody keep a wide mouthed frog? Or its market rival, vauxhals billion dollar baby I loved my seat cordoba but I don't think I've seen one since Did we really salt the roads that much?
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I guess every decade follows the same path as the previous one in terms of vehicles. Although I do think the process seems to accelerate, mainly because we just live in such a ‘throwaway’ society now. As we know 70’s stuff rotted great, but it still seemed to stick around longer, probably because less people had access to credit, so made do & mended. It would be interesting to look at the statistics but I’d guess cars are scrapped far newer than ever as an average. Plus the fact pretty much anyone under the age of 30 has lived in a world where it’s drummed into them that everything ‘has’ to be new
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Last Edit: Oct 3, 2023 18:15:04 GMT by rattlecan
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Darkspeed
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,686
Club RR Member Number: 39
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In 2009 many of them would have gone the way of the 400,000 in this scheme - That and the dealer schemes that were also running to trade an old banger in for a new one on a PCP. www.gov.uk/government/publications/car-scrappage-scheme-in-2009You now have the ULEZ scheme that will also reduce the numbers again and the schemes that will pop up to replace fossil cars with electrics when they get harder to shift. The price of steel a while back also grabbed a load of old tin off the roads and its on the rise again - a glut from UlEZ may drop it though. With a drive to decarbonise I imagine there will be a good few schemes coming along to remove our retro tin from the streets. 90's cars it will be death by electronics failure or emissions MOT fail costs to scrap. You can wire mesh and fill a sill - an ECU death is not as simple to deal with.
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I wonder how many 90s cars were lost to the first scrappage scheme.
They probably also reached a point where nobody was willing to spring for a timing belt change.
It is a bit strange. In 1989 I had a 1979 Escort which was really quite rotten. In 2023, the newest car on my drive is 15 years old. It's done more miles than the Escort has but I don't think about rust at all.
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Last Edit: Oct 3, 2023 21:01:02 GMT by keithyboy
Jaguar S-Type 3.0 SE
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misteralz
Posted a lot
I may drive a Volkswagen, but I'm scene tax exempt!
Posts: 2,338
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Same. My first 'proper' car was a twelve year old Golf GTI when I was twenty-one. I've still got it, but even in 2004 it was 'old'. My current Golf GTI is nearly seventeen years old and our TT is twenty-two, and they are both absolutely moderns.
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,712
Club RR Member Number: 34
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I’ve had nearly every car you’ve mentioned, and tbh I thought all were rubbish for one reason or another. Especially framed against their predecessor or successor.
The omega wasn’t as good as a senator, the e36 wasn’t as good as the e30, the 190e is an incredibly cramped car for something of its size, weight and fuel consumption. The legnum/galant looked good from the front and I think many sold on that alone asthe rest wasn’t all that and the interior was awful. Scorpios were a flop from day one.
The best two out do of those options are the corsa and the cordoba. Corals were a cad you had out of necessity and them moved on to literally anything else as you could afford. Seat didn’t have the market share they do now back then, people bought polos of golfs instead.
I just don’t think cars from that period were very good, or shall we say iconic or memorable. They weren’t hugely better than the previous generation, and were left behind massively when a whole new raft of designs hit the market in the late 90s which made them all look very dated very quickly, in both appearance and performance.
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vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 7,082
Club RR Member Number: 146
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All this from a UK-centric point of view. Eastern Europe particularly seems to have a very different relationship with 90s cars than we do.
The 90s is when cars became less of a luxury and more of a necessity as part of modern living. The way we viewed cars changed. They weren't as aspirational as in previous decades. It's happened with other things too, mobile phones, televisions, kitchen appliances... Throw in added complexity, stricter emissions controls, less parts sharing leading to more difficulty replacing worn out parts, scrappage schemes, incredibly low second hand values, trade-in deals, and you're just going to see these things as being less valuable and less desirable.
By the 90s, having a car was expected of even the most ordinary person with no interest in driving. Having only one family car was considered by some to be representative of some sort of failure or worse, that you were poor. As a result, the car itself became more and more homogenous as companies attempted to create world cars, to find the answer to the best compromise. Where before luxury meant the finest materials, fit, and finish, now it meant gadgets (and look where we are down that path now). Safety, fuel economy, and reliability were more important than looks.
Really it's a wonder any 90s cars survive at all when the odds are stacked so heavily against them. That and the fact that if you're buying a 90s car for fun it's usually going to be passed over because of what the 80s had to offer. Or the 90s car will become a mechanical donor to upgrade an older car, such has been the fate of many a Lexus after all.
The 90s doesn't seem to command the same sort of nostalgia as previous generations for some reason either, it seems to be a bit of a blind spot not just with cars, but with other things like fashion and music. It's almost like the decade nobody wants to talk about even though, ironically, the people waxing lyrical about how amazing the 80s were are pointing at early 90s fashion and art (but i digress and that's a topic for a different forum).
90s cars are no better or worse than other decades, arguably it's when we had peak car since we had enough tech to make cars reliable and not enough to make them annoying.
Also, as a case in point I suppose, I've had both a Citroen Xantia estate and a Citroen BX estate and while the BX is not as well built, not as well sound proofed, has much more flimsy feeling controls and is much more prone to rust it's the car of the two I preferred and found more enjoyable to own. Even though the BX is, in almost every measurable way, worse than the Xantia, it's the one I preferred, and that's the biggest problem with 90s cars.
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As a guy who has multiple e36/w124/w201 I’m all in on the 90’s. They are so bulletproof.
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Rob
Part of things
Posts: 252
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odd timing, I'm collecting this this weekend, however its the Holden version, here in Oz... will be fully restored.
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Dez - I think the Omega was more of a successor to the Carlton than the Senator. I've owned both and I'd rate the Omega as a better car. According to the court of puplic opinion and so on it had more electonic issues, but oddly mine was a case that the Omega was bullet proof and the Carlton had a ton of electronic problems... I have an opinion that if you are looking for AN CAR and you're not a tinkerer / mechanic then the 90s turned out some great stuff which is easier to live with than the earlier cars and less likely to need an unobtainable computer part or something than later cars do. You can still viably get a head gasket done on cars that era and so on. But rust was still an issue for cars this era, and a massive one for some, and as others pointed out, these were the key target for scrappage. They were also a great engine donor source for retro cars a decade ago. Where else did all those Zetec and red tops come from? Also also the 90s was an era of massiove car theft, joy riding and insurance black listing. I remember you couldn't give a Mk2 Astra GTE away at one point because they were impossible to keep from getting nicked. Worked with a lady who had hers stolen three times before it was burned out.
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1937 Austin Street Rod - 1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1976 Rover V8 - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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The 90s is when cars became less of a luxury and more of a necessity as part of modern living. The way we viewed cars changed. They weren't as aspirational as in previous decades. I'd suggest this was really the case as we come from the 90s into the 00s and the 90s cars caught the blast of that as they were less valued as used cars because the new cars were becoming leased appliances...
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1937 Austin Street Rod - 1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1976 Rover V8 - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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Also also - I think there is a familiarity based issue here. I read an article in an old copy of the Sunday Times magazine from about 1968 or so called "Where have all the old new cars gone?" which argued that the death rate of Cortinas and Vivas and so on was massive, there would be none left by the mid 1970s and that stuff like the Ford Popular and old Austins would go on forever because they lacked the complexity of modern cars... I wonder if that article is online anywhere, the arguements are the same 50+ years later!
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1937 Austin Street Rod - 1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1976 Rover V8 - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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bricol
Part of things
Posts: 282
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The V6 Omega that came free with a caravan purchase required a new steering idler to pass it's first MOT with me . . . simply wasn't worth it . . . scrap man here we come . . . the battery lives on in my 07 Alfa 159 Q4
I'm still driving my two 90's cars - a Pug 106 XT (although "driving" is pushing it - it last moved, on a road, before Covid) - but my Lancia integrale is still a regular driver, commuting, towing trailers, bringing stuff from my mums house as I empty it.
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,712
Club RR Member Number: 34
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Dez - I think the Omega was more of a successor to the Carlton than the Senator. I've owned both and I'd rate the Omega as a better car. According to the court of puplic opinion and so on it had more electonic issues, but oddly mine was a case that the Omega was bullet proof and the Carlton had a ton of electronic problems... A fair proportion of all 3 was the same underneath. It’s why the omega engine was halfway under the scuttle, that bay was meant for a straight 6 not a V. The earlier tough as boots straight 6 being a far better engine than the overcomplicated and poorly designed v6.
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Last Edit: Oct 4, 2023 17:52:31 GMT by Dez
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79cord
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,607
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Last Edit: Oct 5, 2023 8:46:05 GMT by 79cord
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Dez - I think the Omega was more of a successor to the Carlton than the Senator. I've owned both and I'd rate the Omega as a better car. According to the court of puplic opinion and so on it had more electonic issues, but oddly mine was a case that the Omega was bullet proof and the Carlton had a ton of electronic problems... A fair proportion of all 3 was the same underneath. It’s why the omega engine was halfway under the scuttle, that bay was meant for a straight 6 not a V. The earlier tough as boots straight 6 being a far better engine than the overcomplicated and poorly designed v6. The older straight 6 was a lovely lump, especially in 24v form. The MV6 Omega never did live up to that, despite having quite the fanbois for a while. That I will concede My Carlton was a 4 pot, same as many of them were, AN CAR spec. Nice enough when it was working, but it did not work on a regular basis. The Omega just worked, and had AC. It was a bit firmer sprung and firmer seats but by the late 90s "proper comfortable cars" were no longer a thing. So the Carlton won on that score. I occasionally think about getting another Omega estate as AN CAR but I don't ever consider a Carlton the same way. That said, when was the last time we saw a Carlton estate?
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1937 Austin Street Rod - 1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1976 Rover V8 - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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braaap
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,594
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akku, first I thought it was a mistake, but meanwhile You wrote it three times. What does AN CAR mean?
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,712
Club RR Member Number: 34
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Carlton’s and senators were the last properly rusty Vauxhalls in my experience, it’s why they’ve all gone. . Omegas we’re a lot better in that respect, it was everything else that let them down.
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,712
Club RR Member Number: 34
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akku, first I thought it was a mistake, but meanwhile You wrote it three times. What does AN CAR mean? A boring, mundane, mediocre spec everyday vehicle. The sort normal people buy, the sort that performs perfectly well at all the requirements of being a car, but is no real fun to use. Thus, one that no one really lusts after or even really remembers.
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Last Edit: Oct 5, 2023 14:05:59 GMT by Dez
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