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May 24, 2023 17:40:01 GMT
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Hi guys, how are you? I'm really not a car person, but I've inherited this car that I really love. It was T-boned in a parking lot many years ago (well before I had it), and recently I've noticed how dodgy the fix was... After getting a hole in the floor fixed and being able to see the amount of water accumulation after power-washing. And after getting the car repainted while the hole was being fixed  Oops, but there's a saying where I'm from, the only people who don't make mistakes are the ones who don't actually try and do anything... The water is leaking through gap(s) between the front door and the body of the car. I'm pretty sure it's because of the B-pillar being deformed in the collision. I'm definitely no authority on saying if the deformation is significant or not, but I do hope not, the doors close properly and all that. But then again, there is a thin spacer between the car body and front door catcher thingy, haven't tried if the door still closes properly without it, and... It's difficult to take a photo where it's possible to see clearly from the outside that there's something wrong, but can you see the sun shining through the gap??
I figured out I have this issue just before parking my car for the winter last year, but I've been paralyzed about actually doing anything about it, mostly because... I don't really have a clear mental picture how this is repaired, or if it can be properly repaired at all. Would you please be kind enough to dumb it down for me and explain how (or if) it would be repaired?
Can it be sort of "pulled" back into place, or is the only possible way to replace the B-pillar (if either is possible at all)? If the B-pillar can be "pulled" back, how much of the car would have to be repainted again afterwards? And by far the most important question is - how difficult is it to get a B-pillar repair right, how much am I risking to end up with no improvement or even a worse situation after taking it to get it repaired? Is it possible to get all those millimeter gaps right again? So basically, any information that could get me on track with this issue would be greatly appreciated... P.S. Car is a 1991 VW Golf Mk2 4-door. Might sound like a cheap car that's not worth it, but I really like it and feel determined to try my best and keep it for at least as long as diesel is still available as a fuel  Thanks in advance!
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Last Edit: May 24, 2023 17:44:06 GMT by defalco
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May 24, 2023 17:57:13 GMT
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Hi, Does the rear door close properly without a gap? If yes then the front door needs adjusting. If no then the problem lies with the 'B' pillar. Although having said that you may get away with adjusting both doors for a better fit.
Colin
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Last Edit: May 24, 2023 17:58:45 GMT by colnerov
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May 24, 2023 19:17:02 GMT
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Hi, thanks for your quick reply! It's really nice to get a fresh perspective, because all I tried was to mess around with the front door striker pin position a bit (it was really stressful because it was at my old man's place and he stood there the entire time telling me how I'm doing everything wrong, as always, lol) and decided it won't work, probably way too soon. Though I do still believe everything points to B-pillar damage, anything else sounds like it would be too good to be true... But it won't hurt to try again, hopefully.
Oddly enough, I'm not able to answer about the rear door right now without seeing the car again, now that you mentioned it. It has no trouble closing, and I don't think the rear door is leaking. But I had this weird thing happen to me one morning a few weeks ago and I can't stop thinking about it - a guy in my office parking lot walked up to my car, grabbed the rear door, then opened it and slammed it, all without even saying hi. When I asked him what the hell he thinks he's doing, he told me it looked partially open :')
Thanks again for the sound advice, I will take a careful look at what I can do & how the rear door looks when I see the car again.
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May 25, 2023 12:26:51 GMT
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A chat with an accident repairers would be a good idea. It's possible to pull very bent cars back into shape so it should be possible - just depends on costs really.
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May 25, 2023 20:14:46 GMT
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If it's just the top of the door around the window that doesn't meet the seal the window frame probably just needs pulling in, sometimes they can be adjusted by loosening bolts, welded in ones need can be pulled in with a bit of brute force (it's what they used to do when the built the cars!)
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May 25, 2023 22:29:48 GMT
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Hi, Watch this guy using different techniques manipulating the door for a better fit.
Colin
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May 28, 2023 19:16:56 GMT
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Temporary 80's fix we used when i was in the trade. Wind down window ,open door place knee against inner door at the waist pull on the window frame to adjust.Yep bend it. Had to do it a lot on new Austin-Rover stuff which was a shock coming from a VW dealer before hand.
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Needs a bigger hammer mate.......
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May 28, 2023 22:16:04 GMT
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On a mk4 golf which to my knowledge contains no high strength steel, B-post damage should be perfectly repairable.
Do you have any photos of the car from the outside with the door shut to show where its not gapping up properly? Logic would dictate that if it was involved in an accident then the bottom of the post would be 'in' but need to see the outside to be sure.
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jgtr
Part of things
Posts: 270 
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May 29, 2023 22:05:13 GMT
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Just bend the top of the door frame in, knee against the door and pull the top, looks like it only needs a slight adjustment. It’s how it’s done in the trade.
You could also replace the door seal as the old one has likely lost a bit of shape.
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May 31, 2023 16:59:47 GMT
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Hey guys, thanks so much to everyone for the replies! I feel like I really learned something from reading this, especially the bending doors being an industry standard part Would have never guessed! I was sick during some of this last week and wasn't able to inspect the car much, let alone try and do something about it. I'd be very happy if all it took was to bend the window frame a bit, it does leak a little bit through part of the top of the door, but I'm actually more worried that the B-pillar is deformed in such a way where the door is now too "short" (lengthwise) to cover the entire hole meant for it, if that makes sense? For some reason it is very, very difficult to get the suspicious bits that are visible when looking at it "live" to show up in pictures. But I will charge up a fancier camera, and try again.
For now... As I was sick and around the house with not much to do, I randomly remembered that there were photos of the original damage from 10 years ago. It was difficult, but I managed to track them down. Not sure if they are of any help trying to imagine the extent of the potential B-pillar damage, or if the people repairing this damage could just as well have messed something up even more while trying to fix it.
10 years ago, just prior to the sloppy repair:    But honestly, I am so relieved you guys think it is repairable even if it is B-pillar damage. I know it might have sounded like a stupid question, but I follow my local auto body repair Facebook group, and I noticed they can make miracles fixing rear and front damage, but B-pillar requests are rare and get basically ignored there, plus someone already tried to fix this 10 years ago on this specific car and apparently failed, so I figured maybe it's not properly fixable at all... To hear that it is generally fixable has given me a lot of hope, I was really depressed about it when I noticed the leak and didn't know what to do, but now I think I will be able to move forward and figure something out. Thanks again!!
P.S.
On a mk4 golf which to my knowledge contains no high strength steel, B-post damage should be perfectly repairable. Just to be clear, it is a Mk2, one that has 4 doors, but hopefully that does not change much  |
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Last Edit: May 31, 2023 17:09:32 GMT by defalco
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jgtr
Part of things
Posts: 270
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May 31, 2023 17:14:58 GMT
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All I can see is some minor damage to the side of the car and a picture of a door that needs an adjustment?
Why do you think the B post is out of alignment and what is the issue with the previous repair?
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May 31, 2023 17:17:05 GMT
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From the damage there it looks like whatever hit it, went from back to front so it's unlikely to be the B pillar.
That said the B pillar could be slightly in, if thats the case pulling it out at the belt line hieght shouldnt be too hard. Could probably be done with a rachet strap and something heavy to attach it to.
Also it's possible the front door hinges are tweaked slightly, from the original damage the door could need adjusting backwards or the hinge part of the front door checking to make sure it's not slightly bent in.
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Last Edit: May 31, 2023 17:20:01 GMT by joem83
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May 31, 2023 18:58:15 GMT
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All I can see is some minor damage to the side of the car and a picture of a door that needs an adjustment? Why do you think the B post is out of alignment and what is the issue with the previous repair? Thank you, you see, as I mentioned I don't know much about cars (yet) and to me the damage in the picture looks pretty significant, so seeing the word "minor" is a relief Long story, but as I mentioned I inherited this car from a relative so I know a bit about it, and I actually accompanied the person to the repair shop that did the initial repairs. I was in my teens back then, but I remember very well the repair guy said just replacing the doors won't be enough and the B pillar will have to be pulled back into place (without even looking at it too much as far as I remember), so I assume he messed with it. The door currently on the car is actually the second replacement since this accident, but the relative was unhappy with the first replacement door either (wind passing through, and probably also water, except (or because)? a hole had rusted through in the floor in the place where the water accumulates, so that's why they probably couldn't notice, I only noticed the water when the hole got fixed :') ). So there have been 2 different doors, and two different workshops fitting them, I assumed it not very likely that both doors were deformed, or both workshops fitted them improperly. Also there is a thin spacer thingy between the door catcher pin and the car body that isn't present on the other doors, I guess it's to make the door catcher longer or something, now I'm really curious if it will still close properly if I remove it (or maybe it will actually solve my problem?!). The repair was dodgy in other aspects (like the painting quality, the assembly quality...), so I don't trust the work they did restoring the B-pillar either (or perhaps, choosing not to restore it, who knows now).
But yeah, I'm definitely no expert, that's why I'm here asking questions so that I am prepared for the worst case scenario
From the damage there it looks like whatever hit it, went from back to front so it's unlikely to be the B pillar. That said the B pillar could be slightly in, if thats the case pulling it out at the belt line hieght shouldnt be too hard. Could probably be done with a rachet strap and something heavy to attach it to. Also it's possible the front door hinges are tweaked slightly, from the original damage the door could need adjusting backwards or the hinge part of the front door checking to make sure it's not slightly bent in.
Thank you for the detailed explanation, this is the exact type of information I wanted to hear The thing that hit it was a Ford Transit or something like that backing up in a parking lot without looking at where it was going... (P. S. Really nice Mk2 you've got there ) |
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May 31, 2023 20:26:31 GMT
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On a mk4 golf which to my knowledge contains no high strength steel, B-post damage should be perfectly repairable. Just to be clear, it is a Mk2, one that has 4 doors, but hopefully that does not change much [/quote] So it is! Misread your first post that said mk2 4door  From the images posted I wouldn't expect to se much deformation of the B-post but I suppose it's a possibility. Nothing surprised me when it comes to accident damaged cars! Do you have any photos of the car from the outside as it is today? Does it have bolted or welded hinges or half and half? (My capri has the inner part of the hinge bolted to the pillar but the outer half on the door is welded. When it was repaired previously did it get NEW doors or 2nd hand ones? Is there any buckling to the sill seen with the doors open? Can you check the curve against the opposite side with a long straight edge? This will help me identify where the misalignment is occurring and what you can do to rectify it (short of you driving up to Scotland for me to take a look in the metal!) |
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Aug 27, 2023 15:50:22 GMT
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Hey guys, Sorry for leaving you in the dark. Unfortunately, my car skills were way too non-existent to figure this out on my own... But honestly, all I really wanted to know from you was that it was fixable in general. When you said yes, that was all that I needed to know, and it got me the motivation to solve this somehow I met a local person who takes apart Golfs, he was immediately able to tell me that the problem is on the hinge side, not the B-pillar. Later I found someone to fix it. But I still have a significant water leak from somewhere into the interior of the car that I am trying to fight :') I will hopefully make a thread about my car one of these days. Once more, sorry & thank you everyone! I couldn't have done it without you. |
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jamesd1972
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,835
Club RR Member Number: 40
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Aug 27, 2023 17:03:09 GMT
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I think the door trim inner plastic membrane sheets on MK2 golfs are well known for failing and letting in water. Lots of info out there if you know what to look for so might be a good place to start - especially as these doors have been messed with already.
James
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Aug 27, 2023 18:28:10 GMT
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Rear light gaskets go leaky with age. It runs into the rear foot well.
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Proton Jumbuck-deceased :-(
2005 Kia Sorento the parts hauling heap
V8 Humber Hawk
1948 Standard12 pickup SOLD
1953 Pop build (wifey's BIVA build).
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Oops, but there's a saying where I'm from, the only people who don't make mistakes are the ones who don't actually try and do anything...
