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Aug 24, 2022 18:59:06 GMT
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What I mean with pre- build is, it will be a long time before I can start on this, if at all. Between the work on the house ( remodel ), the garage ( drywall, etc ), the yard ( cleaning up and organizing my hoard of cars and car parts ), the Spaceframe Fiat 500, the '60 Ford truck, and the '32 Coupe, I have plenty going on... And there are 2 completely different directions this project could go. This thread is about one of those 2... Plan "A", the one this thread is not about, would combine a lot of good used parts that were previously on the Spaceframe 500 and the Red racer ( my home built version of a Fiat Abarth 1000TC ) The TC is the car I grew up with as a racer, I built it to compete in. But because it was my only running car, it was also my daily driver ( going to work, etc... Because it was deafening inside, I drove it with earplugs in on the street...) I still have this car, it survived many years of competition, the occasional "stoplight grand prix" and other road hazards ( it got keyed in the parkinglot at work when it had a 1 week old paintjob), an international move, a divorce, and years of neglect and storage when I couldn't afford to race it. It is now better than ever, it has parts on it I couldn't afford when I was racing it in my '20s. Its race ready, and I take it out every once in a while. These 2 pics are taken 25 years apart.  Because of how important this car is to me, I thought about building a stablemate to it. To minimize the risk of somebody running in to me, or me screwing up in a big way on the track... Something with the same flavor ( handling and general feel of the car ) , but at a lower spec than the current spec of the Red Racer ( for cost & reliability ) So plan "A" would combine the exact same suspension & driveline of the Red Car , but with the steel body I took off the Spaceframe 500.  This plan is still in place, incase plan "B" doesn't work out... |
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Aug 24, 2022 19:17:12 GMT
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So plan "B"... I used to own a Lombardi Grand Prix when I still lived in Holland. And I had to sell it when I moved.  It was a very cool car, I restored it ( it was the importers demo car when it was new, so it was used for magazine road tests, etc ) But it was also very under powered since they came with a stock Fiat 850 engine ( + 850 floor, suspension, etc ) When one came up for sale semi locally online, I jumped on it. For nostalgia reasons... The one I got was very incomplete ( almost everything that unbolts is gone), damaged ( they walked/ jumped/ danced on it ), and rusty. But it was priced accordingly, and I figured it could be yard art, if nothing else... But I also had some bad luck with it. I got hit by an 18Wheeler on my way to pick it up ( messing up my trailer), and when I tried to buy a repro fiberglass body panel for it from a specialist in Belgium, he stonewalled me for many months until I was finally fed up and asked for my money back ( and then I had to move heaven and earth to get that done, with help from my old racing buddies in Europe) That fella will never get any business from me again... All this really put me off, as far as the Lombardi went, and I sold it to a buddy of mine. |
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Aug 24, 2022 19:27:35 GMT
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And that is a problem. Plan "B" cant happen without it... My buddy has bought it. But that was more than 6 months ago, no money has changed hands, and its still parked in the same spot in my back yard. He has a lot going on, I don't blame him for anything. But I do feel bound by the sale. I did start to think " what if he bails on me?" " What would I do with it?" So a plan started to form in my head ( I like to plan ahead and work out as many details as I can before I start any big build ) From the mid tp late '60s sports cars got real angular with sharp edges, and nobody did it better than the Italians. This is the era the Lombardi is from, and it fits perfectly within that style. Aerodynamically, for racing, its all wrong though. Its more a boulevard cruiser than a race car.  But I think it can be fixed... |
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Aug 24, 2022 19:39:51 GMT
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One of my all time favorite Concept Cars is the OSI Scarabeo.   And squinting a bit, I thought the middle part of the Lombardi wasn't a million miles away from the middle part of the Scarabeo. But I have no desire to build a clone or replica of it. Just something that is heavily inspired by it. There was at least one Lombardi that was used for competition. That car ( after a heavy crash) got a different nose to overcome some of its aero problems.  That nose is not pretty by any means, but I think it has kind of a brutal form follows function quality to it. And that nose on a lombardi, when used for racing, is "right" historically. I like the rear on some of the Rally Lancia 037's, a sharp cut off Kamm tail where most of it is cut away. And most of the vertical part that is left is mesh.  ( icing on the cake is that it uses the same Fiat 850 sedan taillights as were used on the Lombardi ) |
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Aug 24, 2022 19:52:55 GMT
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I know I can do the work, but to make all these influences look like they are supposed to be on one car is a different matter... I needed an expert with a expert eye for these kind of things. Lucky for me, such an expert hangs out with us on this forum, and he agreed to help me out. horrido was able to turn my ideas into a couple of really good renderings. And this will really elevate the end product ( if I can make it happen ) In fact thanks to horrido 's art , I went from " What can I do with this if my buddy bails on me?" to " I wonder if I can talk him out of it... " Other RR members are involved too. johnbonnett 's project has done a lot to plant the seed. Making me think about doing a re-body ( as well as him giving me the parts to copy his welding fixture ) And goldnrust gave me the headlight buckets that I will use on either plan "A" or plan "B". |
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Aug 24, 2022 20:01:55 GMT
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So again. At this point, this is total pie in the sky daydreaming. But I thought horrido 's art is too cool to keep it from you. And if there is any justice in the world he'll get some paying gig's, doing this. Starting point. A stock Lombardi.  Side view of the modified one.  Front view, with the front end treatment of the competition Lombardi ( but changed a bit to make it work on my car)  And rear view.  And my Red Racer, and the Lombardi project ghosted on top of each other for scale and proportions.  When ( if ) the build starts, I'll do that on this thread. But even in the best case, it will be a while... |
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Aug 24, 2022 20:10:31 GMT
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Guess where I am sitting right now…..
Watching you work.
Iowa.
Looking forward to this unfolding.
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Aug 24, 2022 20:22:09 GMT
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Too far for you to stop by. Maybe next time... |
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Aug 24, 2022 20:47:48 GMT
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I plan to build this Superleggera style, where the aluminum skin is crimped around a thin wall steel tube skeleton.
All of the steel outside body skin will be replaced with aluminum.
And I'll leave the body in bare aluminum.
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Zagato
Part of things
Posts: 80
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EPIC!
I wish your days had 48 hours….,
As cool as a colony of penguin dangly bits….
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1959 Abarth Double Bubble resto project
1989 Lotus Esprit LHD
1997 Lotus Eprtit GT3
1996 Jaguar XJ6 Sovereign manual gearbox from factory
Porsche 356A Coupe replica
Formula 27 Super Seven replica Alfa Nord powered
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love this, looking amazing so far
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Davey
Posted a lot
Resident Tyre Nerd.
Posts: 2,348
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Aug 25, 2022 11:46:25 GMT
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Well this will be amazing! Can't wait to see how this progresses.
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K11 Micra x3 - Mk3 astra - Seat Marbella - Mk6 Escort estate - B5 Passat - Alfa 156 estate - E36 compact
Mk2 MR2 T-bar - E46 328i - Skoda Superb - Fiat seicento - 6n2 Polo - 6n polo 1.6 - Mk1 GS300
EU8 civic type S - MG ZT cdti - R56 MINI Cooper S - Audi A3 8p - Jaguar XF (X250) - FN2 Civic Type R - Mk2 2.0i Ford Focus - Mercedes W212 E250
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Aug 25, 2022 13:02:46 GMT
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Man, this looks like a winner!
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Aug 25, 2022 17:00:09 GMT
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Wow, whatever you choose, just crack on and do it to entertain us armchair builders! Love the stuff you've posted so far, and thanks for sharing your possibly maybes...fingers crossed you have the time and resources to bring these musings to fruition!
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1968 Mini MkII, 1968 VW T1, 1967 VW T1, 1974 VW T1, 1974 VW T1 1303, 1975 Mini 1000 auto, 1979 Chevette, 1981 Cortina, 1978 Mini 1000 1981 Mini City, 1981 Mini van, 1974 Mini Clubman, 1982 Metro City, 1987 Escort, 1989 Lancia Y10, 1989 Cavalier, 1990 Sierra, 1990 Renault 19, 1993 Nova, 1990 Citroen BX, 1994 Ford Scorpio, 1990 Renault Clio, 2004 Citroen C3, 2006 Citroen C2, 2004 Citroen C4, 2013 Citroen DS5. 2017 DS3 130 Plenty of other scrappers!
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Aug 25, 2022 18:27:47 GMT
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Thanks for the encouraging words, guys.
The technical spec on both plan "A" and plan "B" would be exactly the same.
Abarth TCR front & rear suspension ( double A arms in the front , my version of Pendolare rear suspension )
Coilovers on all 4 corners.
Semi spaceframe, some structural Fiat 600 chassis parts, welded in rollcage which will be structural ( rear suspension, engine & gearbox will attach to it ), completely flat floor ( probably in sheet steel ).
1000cc Abarth engine, Fiat 600 gearbox ( probably with a straight cut close ratio gear set in it )
7 & 8 X 13 reproduction Abarth Campagnolo's, DOT racing tires.
The only real difference between plan "A" and plan "B" would be that the wheelbase on plan "A" is close to stock Fiat 500 ( lengthened slightly) so shorter than a Fiat 600/ Fiat Abarth 1000TC.
And plan "B", since it is based on a Fiat 850, would have to be shortened to Fiat 600 wheelbase.
( they are all within a couple of inches of each other, but it matters...)
The 500 body would have a lot more downforce ( I'd use some of the fiberglass parts I made for the Spaceframe 500, since I already have the molds ), plan "B" would have less drag & less frontal area ( so more top end speed, if I can find the right ring & pinion to gear it correctly).
I have most of the major parts, already. ( left over from the Spaceframe 500 and the TC, hence the name )
But I am looking for a Alfa Romeo Alfetta rear axle ( DeDion ) to build my rear suspension out of.
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Sept 5, 2022 20:02:58 GMT
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Nothing new to report. I'm just working out the main components, and whether its going to a full spaceframe car, or if it will have chassis based on Fiat 600 parts. A tube frame will be easier and quicker to build. Using Fiat 600 parts will be more work, and probably a bit heavier, but it might still be worth doing it that way. This will be helpful, because it gives all the measurements of the Fiat 600 suspension pick up points. So that gives me a good starting point...  Also, keeping the theme of " Left Over Special", I want to use as many parts I have laying around as possible. Even if those are not the best/highest spec ( fastest) available... (which they wont be, I have them laying around because they got replaced by better/higher spec/ faster parts on the other racers... Not because they'd be wore out or broken ) |
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