skinnylew
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 5,546
Club RR Member Number: 11
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Mar 11, 2022 21:15:30 GMT
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So last week Londons Mayor announced proposals to extend the Ultra Low Emissions Zone to the edge of the outer London boroughs. Currently he extended it from the Congestion Charge Zone to encompass the area inside the North and South circular roads in October 2021. The upshot of this is that the following are affected: Vehicle type Min. emission standard ULEZ Charge if below emission standardMotorbikes Euro 3* (all bikes registered since Jul 2007) £12.50 Cars & small vans Petrol Euro 4 (since Jan 2006) Diesel Euro 6 (since Sept 2015) £12.50 Vans Petrol Euro 4 (since Jan 2007) Diesel Euro 6 (since Sept 2016) £12.50 Lorries & coaches Euro VI (since Jan 2014) £100 One can only imagine just how many retro cars were initially displaced, scrapped, sold due to this. However by extending it to the outer boroughs/suburbs the amount of vehicles impacted goes through the roof. Initial rhetoric from the Mayor suggested 20-40k vehicles a day. This is total garbage in my experience, I suspect based on my local knowledge/research it will be over million vehicles affected/non compliant (I inspect highways for the council and over 20 roads in Bexley I was averaging 15 - 20 cars per street visually non compliant, add into that diesels not obviously diesels, and motorbikes it's not beyond the realms of possibility to have 30 - 40+ vehicles per street. Bexley has 1000 roads and is one of the smaller boroughs. 40k vehicles). So what you might say? I don't live anywhere near London. Well hundreds of retro car enthusiasts do and we appreciate your help!!If you get over to change.org there are petitions you can sign that don't take too long www.change.org/p/stop-sadiq-khan-expanding-the-ulez-to-all-the-london-borough-2023If you are so inclined and affected then sending your MP and London Assembly member a letter/email will go some way to raising awareness and help combat the changes. Personally I have 5 cars affected by this: and a 08 Fiesta Zetec S tdci. For those who say this is a good thing to give people clean air (I wouldn't expect much argument on here but you never know) I would say this, the outer boroughs and suburbs are very green, with large open green spaces and even rural farmland and forests in places. This is not and environmental clean air charge, it is a stealth tax by the mayor who is broke and needs to get money in to prop up his mismanaged Transport network etc. I love living in the suburbs but fear that I might have to move further out to keep enjoying my hobby, and i'm sure lots of others on this forum are in a similar predicament. Part of the joy of the suburbs is the fact there are driveways and garages with retro delights left right and centre. I only have to walk a few hundred metres and I will see an old e-class Mercedes, Audi 80, Land Rover Defender, Ford Escort van, mk3 Golf, Vauxhall Nova, Discovery mk1, Alfa 156 jtd, Dodge Ram van, Jag XJS the list goes on and on. To lose all these would be a travesty. This is not meant to be a political post nor do it to go that way, this threatens peoples enjoyment of cars, the businesses that thrive off enthusiasts like the Ace Cafe, the running of shows like the Bromley Pageant and much more besides.
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Last Edit: Nov 25, 2022 15:07:29 GMT by skinnylew
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Mar 11, 2022 22:14:05 GMT
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Signed ..and please mods I hope you do not delete this thread!
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Fraud owners club member 1999 Jaguar s type 1993 ford escort
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Mar 11, 2022 22:14:53 GMT
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Signed
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Mar 11, 2022 22:53:55 GMT
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Signed, bringng in the LEZ was the beginning of this rot and it wants stopping.
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Mar 11, 2022 23:41:54 GMT
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Signed. I reckon this needs stopping before every town in the country has a similar scam running
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wildrover
Part of things
Posts: 404
Member is Online
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Signed - I used my postcode from when I used to live in London - don't know that it matters but, it just seemed better than my California ZIP code
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skinnylew
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 5,546
Club RR Member Number: 11
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Thank you! I would be interested to see if anyone else is in a similar position to myself and plans they have to fight this or mobilise your average joe public to rally against this. I am considering making flyers up and posting them on all the affected cars I see because i have a feeling a lot of normal public have no idea the impact it will have on them.
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Do it. Spread the word far and wide. Is there any point me signing the petition from New Zealand?
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Thank you! I would be interested to see if anyone else is in a similar position to myself and plans they have to fight this or mobilise your average joe public to rally against this. I am considering making flyers up and posting them on all the affected cars I see because i have a feeling a lot of normal public have no idea the impact it will have on them. One things for sure, signing online forms isn't going to do a single solitary damn thing. Really you'll be wanting to get businesses involved, other politicians, maybe consider voting for national parties that have a plan to fund local public transport adequately. That sort of thing.
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Last Edit: Mar 12, 2022 7:23:17 GMT by HoTWire
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Paul
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,908
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My problem with the ULEZ plan is that it isn’t consistent.
My daily driver, a 50+ mpg diesel BMW - 134g co2 emissions - isn’t allowed. There’s a very real chance I’ll have to buy a new car, and the associated co2 footprint of buying a new car is many times the emissions.
My 996 911? 277g co2…but Sadiq is fine with me driving that to work…?
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My problem with the ULEZ plan is that it isn’t consistent. My daily driver, a 50+ mpg diesel BMW - 134g co2 emissions - isn’t allowed. There’s a very real chance I’ll have to buy a new car, and the associated co2 footprint of buying a new car is many times the emissions. My 996 911? 277g co2…but Sadiq is fine with me driving that to work…? It is about localised emissions, not global climate changey things. Local clean air regulation is usually going to negatively effect diesels as they kick out more particulates. This expansion seems to be ill-conceived, it made sense in the center of the city, but out in the suburbs makes much less sense and there are other ways to manage air quality. Not to derail but I'm always annoyed that places will put in (rightly) low emissions zones, but then allow massive new construction to happen.
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Rich
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 6,256
Club RR Member Number: 160
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My problem with the ULEZ plan is that it isn’t consistent. My daily driver, a 50+ mpg diesel BMW - 134g co2 emissions - isn’t allowed. There’s a very real chance I’ll have to buy a new car, and the associated co2 footprint of buying a new car is many times the emissions. My 996 911? 277g co2…but Sadiq is fine with me driving that to work…? As Hotwire said, that’s more to do with actual clean air. Looking at JUST co2 emissions isn’t really relevant. You need to look at at tailpipe emissions overall and by and large the petrol cars final emissions are less locally harmful, that being the key word. Locally. It’s usually down to things like actual particle emission which causes a terrible drop in air quality, the diesel emitting a lot more solid mass from the exhaust, and NOX emissions.
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So if they expand it to cover all of GL I can visit my elderly mum in my '04 3.2s Boxster but not 55 plate TDI Fabia or 61 plate TDCI Galax without paying. Just need to work out how to fit my 4 grandchildren in the Boxster........
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Needs a bigger hammer mate.......
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,714
Club RR Member Number: 34
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Most technological revolutions are powered by innovation.
When electric cars can do the same as ICE ones for the same (or lower) price, people will buy them by default, and clean air zones won’t need to be legislated, they will happen by themselves. As the moment they’re still the toys of the well off, and will be for some considerable time yet.
As it’s stands not only can they not do that, the current government has just removed pretty much all ‘carrot’ incentives that previously had people switching over to them (arguably far to early in their uptake) leaving only the ‘stick’ of penalising people for driving the vehicles the same government incentivised less than 20 years ago. The whole thing is a sh1tshow.
Ultimately though it’s down to lifestyle choices. The London centric way this country operates being the biggest problem. The lockdown a couple of years ago proved most people don’t actually need to commute, they were just doing it becuase that’s what people do. Stopping needless commuting for huge sectors ofnthe popultionnwill do for more for clean air than victimising certain vehicles will.
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Mar 13, 2022 10:18:08 GMT
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I've been working on developing EV's for several years now, it's pretty clear that from the mid 20's on there won't be much else available in Europe and most will comfortably exceed 200 miles range, hopefully this will bring cost of ownership down to close to a IC car for mid size (ie golf / focus) sized cars, small cars will be a real struggle though. The big issue is going to be charging infrastructure, if you have a private parking space only drive a long distance a few times a year and don't want to tow much you will manage, the rest will either end up paying for very expensive public charging or not being able to get it at all.
Then there is HGV's and aircraft for which nobody has a credible idea of a solution yet.
As for London (and plenty of other larger cities) the real point is they see cars as a revenue stream and in my opinion the unspoken aim is to make them so unattractive and expensive you end up on public transport (which you pay them for).
I've just been driving around North London, a lot of cars here are going to fail the expanded ULEZ, if it goes through this I guess the only option for car fun will be a historic vehicle, I won't be able to bring the catalyst equipped 40mpg mx5 in but the Carbed V8 20mpg TR7 will be fine!
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stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,842
Club RR Member Number: 174
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Mar 13, 2022 11:06:50 GMT
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Looking at the proposals I'm glad Leeds Council did the sensible thing and actually tested the air to show a LEZ wasn't needed when it was been forced on them by government.
Having said that, on the rare occasion I drive in the London area I'd say pretty much everybody would be better off in electric cars. Euro 5/6 Diesel engines especially must be absolutely clagged up to death driving round there as I've never managed to do the driving needed to get the DPFs to regen properly.
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melle
South West
It'll come out in the wash.
Posts: 1,984
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Mar 13, 2022 11:40:41 GMT
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The ULEZ extension proposal may not be very well executed (I don't know, I haven't studied the plans), but I think in general it's a good idea to reduce the number of (privately owned) cars in urban areas as much as possible. I'd happily get rid of my car if I get clean air, good public transport and safe roads for walking and cycling in return. To be honest, I do hope mass-adoption of electric vehicles will not end clean air zones as there are plenty more good reasons to ban cars from cities.
As an aside, many councils have banned cars from entering city centres to stop terrorists from staging attacks with vans or lorries, usually without much protest. As far as I know, on the whole cars/ vans/ lorries with drivers with non-terrorist motives have been much deadlier than terrorism in recent history, so why do clean air zones bother people so much in comparison with "anti-terrorism" measures?
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www.saabv4.com'70 Saab 96 V4 "The Devil's Own V4" '77 Saab 95 V4 van conversion project '88 Saab 900i 8V
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slater
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 6,390
Club RR Member Number: 78
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Mar 13, 2022 14:58:20 GMT
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You can protest by all buying tax exempt motors and fitting big cummins diesels with a 'smoke screw'
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skinnylew
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 5,546
Club RR Member Number: 11
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Mar 13, 2022 20:02:34 GMT
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Thank you! I would be interested to see if anyone else is in a similar position to myself and plans they have to fight this or mobilise your average joe public to rally against this. I am considering making flyers up and posting them on all the affected cars I see because i have a feeling a lot of normal public have no idea the impact it will have on them. One things for sure, signing online forms isn't going to do a single solitary damn thing. Really you'll be wanting to get businesses involved, other politicians, maybe consider voting for national parties that have a plan to fund local public transport adequately. That sort of thing. The thing is the options are limited, as the inner London boroughs voted for Khan so he is trying to push this through before he is voted out. It may not achieve much by signing something but it is better than sitting idle doing nothing. The best form of pressure will be writing to the local London Assembly member or MP as I've already stated. Making businesses aware is an idea but there are very few that will be affected who don't already know it and are trying to take steps towards fighting it. As said the ULEZ zone makes sense in built up areas but the suburbs, whilst urban in parts are not wholly urban, there are rural areas and vast green areas. The M25 cut off would be the same as the current commercial vehicle Clean Air Zone I believe but the M25 also cuts through lots of countryside without a house in sight so hard to penalise someone who lives several miles from a shop but inside the M25 that their diesel car is causing problems!!
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retrolegends
Club Retro Rides Member
Winging it.....Since 1971.
Posts: 3,719
Club RR Member Number: 94
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Mar 13, 2022 20:26:01 GMT
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Signed 👍
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1974 Hillman Avenger 1500DL1992 Volvo 240SE1975 Datsun Cherry 100a flying custard1965 Hillman SuperMinx Rock N Roller1974 Austin Allegrat Mk1 1.3SDL1980 Austin Allegro Mk3 1.3L1982 Austin Allegro Mk3 on banded steels2003 Saab 9-3 Convertible 220bhp TurboNutter1966 Morris Minor 1000 (Doris) 2019 Abarth 595C Turismo (not retro but awesome fun) www.facebook.com/DatsunCherry100a
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