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Oct 31, 2024 15:26:07 GMT
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 Not too much done with the Panhard. Other cars claimed more time. Since the last update only one event that I visited. I did run into the problem that again I have a flat tire. Those innertubes rub against the innerwalls of the tire and this wears out. Currently investigating the options to get rid of innertubes all together. If you keep the tire pressure high enough its not a problem; else the tire may come of the rim. But a bigger question is if the rim is airtight enough. The alternative is to preventively replace all inner tubes and replace that about every 2 years. I'm hearing Citroen DS owners that have the same dilemma. Anyone on here experience how to deal with this? |
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V-8: 1988 Corvette - 5.7 TPI
V-4: 1973 SAAB 96 - 1.5
4-boxer: 1975 Alfa Romeo AlfaSud - 1.2
2-boxer: 1965 Panhard 24BT - 0.8
4-line: 1982 Suzuki SC100 Whizzkid - 1.0
4-line: 1997 Alfa Romeo 164 Super - 2.0 TS
4-line: 2010 Renault Wind - 1.2 Turbo
4-line: 2021 Citroen campervan - 2.2 HDI
4-line: 2022 Alpine A110 - 1.8 Turbo
2-line: 1973 NSU Prinz 4L - 0.6 --> for sale
2-line: 2021 Honda Rebel 500
EV: 2024 Nio ET5T
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Oct 31, 2024 18:15:27 GMT
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The inner diameter of the rim ( hoop)/ outer dia of the center seems pretty standardized on most steel wheels.
This being a rare French car, it may be totally different of course...
If the diameters can be matched with a regular available wheel, it may be possible to weld the later hoops on your centers.
The key thing is that it has the safety bead to keep the tire sealed and in place, even on low pressures.
I'd start with looking at VW ( Panhard is 15", right?), or aftermarket Hot Rod ( both available new/ repro in narrow sizes).
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Enbloc
Part of things
Posts: 399
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Oct 31, 2024 20:18:24 GMT
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Are the Panhard wheels just conventional steel hoops with the wide stud pattern?
I run everything vintage/classic tubeless now after getting well and truly fed up with tubes. I think every flat I've ever had has been down to the tube failing. Even just fitting them is a total PITA.
I don't buy into the safety bead stuff.
To me, the safety bead is there so morons driving around on flat tyres don't roll the tyre off the rim.
The only thing to watch for is the valve hole size in the wheel. Alot of the older tubed wheels have the bigger 5/8" hole.
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Last Edit: Oct 31, 2024 20:21:05 GMT by Enbloc
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Thats indeed the point. This safety bead. With the Citroen DS guys I spoke to they run on the original rims so without that bead. On trackdays it stays on, only in rallying it might fail sometimes. But need to be strict on keeping tire pressure up. I can live with that.
In principle the Panhard wheel is just the outer of a normal steel wheel of the time. Valve hole might be a point indeed. There are some rivets involved in how the wheel is made so there may be a weak point there - at least for holding air.
Given the uniqueness of these wheels and the fact there is nobody around to balance them I am hesitant to do irreversible changes or anything that might offset the balance even more. Right now vibrations kick in at 100km/h and above which is acceptable given the usage and the speedlimits on the roads I drive.
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V-8: 1988 Corvette - 5.7 TPI
V-4: 1973 SAAB 96 - 1.5
4-boxer: 1975 Alfa Romeo AlfaSud - 1.2
2-boxer: 1965 Panhard 24BT - 0.8
4-line: 1982 Suzuki SC100 Whizzkid - 1.0
4-line: 1997 Alfa Romeo 164 Super - 2.0 TS
4-line: 2010 Renault Wind - 1.2 Turbo
4-line: 2021 Citroen campervan - 2.2 HDI
4-line: 2022 Alpine A110 - 1.8 Turbo
2-line: 1973 NSU Prinz 4L - 0.6 --> for sale
2-line: 2021 Honda Rebel 500
EV: 2024 Nio ET5T
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Some more info on the bead ( as far as I remember it, without doing more digging and verifying info). If I remember right, the shape of the wheel ( where the tire seals on it) is different on tube type and tubeless type wheels. I think the wheels were marked with a letter ( K for one of them, maybe? J may be the other one), to set them apart. So a tubeless tire on a tube type wheel would be a mismatch, and a tube in a tubeless tire is not recommended. I wouldnt like having to run the tires on ( too) high of a pressure either. Tubeless wheels without a safety bead exist ( like with extra narrow ones where there is just not enough space to fit it all in, for example Drag Race front skinny's) Seems to me, getting a wheel ( or just the rim) with the safety bead ensures that you have the more modern, tubeless type, rim. Also, on older wheels, it was not uncommon for the rim and center to be riveted instead of welded. Another potential place for a (slow) leak. Again, I'm just flying by memory here. And I may be completely wrong. If so, please correct me...  Edit. A quick Google shows the letter code is for the rim edge contour, and there area lot more versions than just K and J. It looks like J is now the industry standard for passenger cars. |
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To fix your balancing problem you just have to make ( or have made) a adapter that fits a normal dynamic balancing machine, that the wheel bolts to. Like they make for Wide 5 early Ford wheels.  |
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The rim edge is indeed different and there are many types of rim edges even with tubeless tires. Based on your suggestions I have been thinking to look for a space saver spare wheel as that is about the width to use (135 tires from memory). A Fiesta or Polo rim is too wide. Investigation revealed that the wheel is a mix of rivets and welds so indeed air tightness would be a problem. But the killer is that the hole for the valve is not round at all but rather a large oval. A truck tire valve would not even close that. Its not that visible as the decorative riveted on chrome plate is covering it partially. So no easy way to go tubeless. Would probably come down to modifying same space savers as an alternative. I don't know if I want to go through that much effort.  But at least we had a finding. First of all these classic car tires are on the inside actually different than modern tires. So they should rub much less. That is however countered by the fact that some aluminium label was left inside the tires that caused the rubbing. Or at least that is the case for this one. This means a new inner tube in this one and looking into the other tires as well and possibly preventive inner tubes replacement. Someone in the past made an installation error and forgot to take out these labels. Fingers crossed that's it. For the balancing I have been thinking about making that and already found a company willing. However also got the comment that since the weight of the wheel versus the drum is that different compared to normal wheels that it might make more sense to balance the wheels on the car. So I think once all tires have been checked and where needed replaced I will go that route. |
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V-8: 1988 Corvette - 5.7 TPI
V-4: 1973 SAAB 96 - 1.5
4-boxer: 1975 Alfa Romeo AlfaSud - 1.2
2-boxer: 1965 Panhard 24BT - 0.8
4-line: 1982 Suzuki SC100 Whizzkid - 1.0
4-line: 1997 Alfa Romeo 164 Super - 2.0 TS
4-line: 2010 Renault Wind - 1.2 Turbo
4-line: 2021 Citroen campervan - 2.2 HDI
4-line: 2022 Alpine A110 - 1.8 Turbo
2-line: 1973 NSU Prinz 4L - 0.6 --> for sale
2-line: 2021 Honda Rebel 500
EV: 2024 Nio ET5T
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