bbq
Part of things
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(. )( .)
Posts: 485
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Nov 14, 2007 21:28:27 GMT
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I must firstly state that I'm in the enviable position of not needing a daily driver for myself due to me starting and finishing work from home in my orange van
I do have a '99 Focus for Mrs BB, but that is mainly to make life hassle free for her. As soon as I can build her an Amazon estate with a 940 engine and box I'll be prising her into it, though!
With regard to the concessions given to classic car owners....well, look at it another way.
Concessions that allow us to keep our cars on the road, (the only exemption I can think of in the last 20 years is the phasing out of leaded petrol) such as the ever stringent MOT standards not applying to older cars- although they couldn't fairly as the older cars were never designed to meet them- are of little or no consequnce to the powers that be yet encourage those who own such cars and are thus passionate about our hobby to vote for the kindly politicians who seem so facilitous to this pleasureable pastime.
One thing that should be noted though, is the reason that the free car tax isn't a rolling date but stuck at 1/1/73. Soon enough, those cars eligible for the free tax will be all but extinct- they are already, to all intents and purposes. It's not a big deal to whichever government is in power at the time.
I wouldn't panic just yet that our hobby will decline as fast as some of you may think.
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2003 Suzuki Wagon R+. Feel the POWAAARRRR!!! 1968 Volvo 142. My street/strip car. Currently fubarred, it will run one day. 1971 Volvo 142. Parts car. Stripped and gone. 1993 Nissan Sunny diesel. Runs on cooking oil! [/UR
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Nov 14, 2007 21:56:07 GMT
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This weeks dispatches programme "Bottleneck Britain" was interesting viewing, general motoring that is. made me stressed and rant a lot ;D but summed up my thoughts on the situation quite well. ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png) As for old cars, i dunno. to much of my life is devoted to old heaps now, not sure i could live without em.
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![](http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff16/stoppitandtidyup/Avatars%20etc/reansigys.jpg) it doesn't matter if it's a Morris Marina or a Toyota Celica - it's what you do with it that counts ![8-)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/cool.png)
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Ed
Part of things
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Posts: 600
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Nov 14, 2007 22:02:50 GMT
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to quote "They can take mine from my cold dead hands" ;D
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berendd
Europe
why do I need 3 keys for one car?
Posts: 1,449
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Nov 14, 2007 22:14:30 GMT
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once read this co2 calculation for a prius and a landie..
the landie had to do quite a lot of miles or so to outrun the prius on co2
take a regular size locally produced car and do the calculation again, then you start to wonder why a prius is considered green and a polo or so not. Total curse word in my beliefs, I keep running my old heaps and when they are banning me I will fight back against the prius lobby.
I mean in holland they give some sort of tax reductions to those stupid hybrids... IMHO they don't even know why themselves... and it's also my tax money they give away!
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Raoul Duke
Part of things
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Posts: 990
Club RR Member Number: 117
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Nov 14, 2007 23:57:06 GMT
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FWIW, the genuine environmentalists don't have a problem with older cars. None of the 'eco-warriors' I've known have had a car less than 20 years old; my landlord (who used to organise anti-Trident protest marches) drove a Mk1 Passat up until this year! The problem is purely political - it's in the interest of both the car industry and the government to have everyone buying new cars, and it's all too easy for the gullible, pseudo-green majority to be coerced. Although I agree that the UK is still one of the more classic-friendly western nations, and nothing seriously negative will happen for a long while yet.
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...a redder shade of neck on a whiter shade of trash...
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current cars are better, lets face it, they do everything much better, and don't rust. I still like old cars though....
Some modern cars could even become 'classic'. I mean much of the stuff I considered wibblepoo in the 70's - 80's is now 'classic'......
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'98 e36 316i lux '97 mx5 harvard '87 Saab 900 T16s
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current cars are better, lets face it, they do everything much better... Oh I dunno. In 1978, Datsun 210's with the small 4-banger were rated at 42 MPG (one magazine test got 50 MPG!). They don't have anything here as frugal in their line-up today. (Top Nissan MPG product in NA currently is the Sentra at 36 highway rating.)
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![](http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l171/Team_Blitz/Avatar464x80pixels.jpg) Team Blitz Ford Capri parts worldwide: Restoration, Road, or Race. Used, Repro, and NOS, ranging from scabby to perfect. Itching your Capri jones since 1979! Buy, sell, trade. www.teamblitz.com blitz@teamblitz.com
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Can´t really comment on the situation in the UK, because i´m not there!!
In Germany the future doesn´t look too rosy....
The Government is just in the process of setting up "environment zones" in the main cities. All cars (no exceptiotns for classics) are being issued with stickers which have to be displayed on the windscreen.
These stickers are colour coded "green for good" new cats etc down to no sticker if youre emmissions are not up to modern standards...i.e all the fun stuff.
When the smog levels reach a certain limit in these areas then they are going to start banning the usage of cars, starting with "no stickers" and working there way up!!!!!
If you don´t live in one of these areas then you can obviousy drive around the problem, if you can´t afford new cars or run a classic then you´re fooked!!!
The classic car lobby has been trying for years to work against this system, without any success and personally i reckon it´s going to get worse not better.
As there is a finite amount of crude oil left the oil companys are going to give it there best and get as much money for it as possible.
With a barrel of oil up to 100 Dollars and our old cars using more than the modern plastics it´s only a question of time before our fantastic hobby is going to be out of fanancial reach of the next generation.
Comparing the running costs of a classic compared to a modern, we don´t have any tax exemption for classics, most of the insurance companies only do limited mileage policies which puts the classic out of contention if you want to (legally) run it as a daily...
If you can live with 3000 or 5000kms a year then the classic can hold it´s own, cost wise but any more and you don´t have a chance.
I totally agree with Bryn, we won´t be able to change anything anyway, there´ll be a lot of screaming and shouting but at the end of the day when the dust has settled it won´t be getting any better!!
Lets just enjoy it as long as we can and hope that our children will still be able to have a bit of fun..........
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The Federation of British Historical Vehicle Clubs (FBHVC) exists to act as our voice - yet I fear that they don't represent the younger classic car enthusiasts. I also worry that they are reluctant to promote classics as regularly used vehicles in case the government suddenly starts to see us as a revenue-generating machine (bye bye free road tax?).
But the Federation has fought off some key legislation nightmares recently - remember possession tax where you had to tax any car, even if it was a box of bits in the garage? the Fed killed it off.
If your car club is not associated with the FBHVC, I recommend that you make it happen. 2CVGB and CCC are associated adding our voice to classic debates.
Don't moan about the end of classic motoring if you do nothing to prevent it!
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1986 Citroen 2CV Dolly Other things. Check out my Blog for the latest! www.hubnut.org
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Nov 15, 2007 10:27:08 GMT
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Surely time to look at getting one up on them with one of them there Electric car conversions?? ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png) ... 0-60 is awesome,.. some great drag times can be had... long distance is a bit of an issue ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png)
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stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,871
Club RR Member Number: 174
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The future of classic cars....stealthstylz
@stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member 174
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Nov 15, 2007 11:32:13 GMT
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The running out of oil thing is a load of curse word. I've got a couple of mates work in the industry theres loads of places that have massive reserves that haven't been tapped into, officially due to not wanting to damage the local environment, but imho because the countries want to keep it for themselves. Imagine how much power a country would have if they had the best means of powering vehicles and nobody else did.
The fashion enviromentalists are whats ruining it for everybody.
Matt
Matt
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Nov 15, 2007 11:49:42 GMT
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Even if you don't care about the environmental considerations,.. even if you don't agree with the oil reserves running out,.. even if you aren't particularly worried about smog.. there is one thing that can't be denied... There are more cars on the road in the UK than the road system can handle. That right there is a F A C T.
Bath has a great way of dealing with too many cars in the town centre.... don't supply enough parking .. its why I have to take the train, which actually costs me more than a car would, but at least I don't have to find a parking space. Public transport is so expensive and un reliable. I'd get on my bike, but the only way to get to work without risking the roads round here is the canal path, which takes an 8 mile detour before I get to Bath!...
UK transport is a massive problem, people need to get out of their cars. However there is nothing for them to get into... watching Top Gear shows you what its like riding a bike in a busy city centre. Classic cars make up a small enough proportion of this problem that hitting them will achieve nothing.
Oh and the government can't just get rid of cars from our roads, or companies/donors like Tescos and Sainsburys would be up in arms because the out of town shopping centre becomes a big empty waste of space.
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Last Edit: Nov 15, 2007 11:50:02 GMT by HoTWire
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Nov 15, 2007 12:03:34 GMT
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Surely time to look at getting one up on them with one of them there Electric car conversions?? ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png) ... 0-60 is awesome,.. some great drag times can be had... long distance is a bit of an issue ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png) You can get around the problem of long distances by having a friend sit in the back winding out an extention lead. ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png)
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Nov 15, 2007 12:25:33 GMT
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IMHO the £25 congestion charge is for cars in emissions band G (the super tax band for Range Rovers etc) and those cars older than 2001 that are 3 litres or over, not all cars made before 2001.
Whoever buys Land Rover is going to have to invest in some hybrid technology soon, as I see a lot of Lexus Hybrid 4X4s in central London now (My office is near Piccadilly).
The most common new 'ordinary' car i.e. not a Mercedes E class minicab, white van or Taxi, is the Toyota Prius.
BTW, the older than 1973 car is not extinct, but very few are used as daily drivers now. You see more in rural areas.
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Nov 15, 2007 13:14:30 GMT
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There will always be old/classic/jalopy/banger cars in Great Britain.
Why because it's the land of the minimum wage and not everyone can afford 10k-20k+ for a decent brand new car thus the oldies have to be kept going/fettled up for as long as possible to help us do a daily duties/go to work/ get about.
And it's not just this country that has had to adopt this attitude just take a look around the world!
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ratty
Part of things
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Posts: 257
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Nov 15, 2007 13:26:21 GMT
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How does the age of the car affect congestion ![???](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/huh.png) A 1986 Mini takes up less space than a Prius Or has the congestion zone been renamed to "I'll get away with anything I can signed Red Ken zone"
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Nov 15, 2007 14:49:26 GMT
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Don't moan about the end of classic motoring if you do nothing to prevent it! Bingo. Being docile and quiet will get you nothing. If nothing is what you want, you'll get it. As a great philosopher once said, in a slightly dif context, "You have to fight... for your right... to par... ty."
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![](http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l171/Team_Blitz/Avatar464x80pixels.jpg) Team Blitz Ford Capri parts worldwide: Restoration, Road, or Race. Used, Repro, and NOS, ranging from scabby to perfect. Itching your Capri jones since 1979! Buy, sell, trade. www.teamblitz.com blitz@teamblitz.com
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Nov 15, 2007 14:54:38 GMT
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How does the age of the car affect congestion ![???](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/huh.png) Apparently they link congestion to air quality,.. so getting rid of cars without catalytic converters they think they are improving air quality ... Personally I think they need to look at the amount (and times of day) the big diesel powered trucks in the centre of London as one of the problems related to congestion (both cause and air quality). Then again, I got no quick answer for that, people want goods delivered, one big truck is better than 5 smaller vans... Lets get the Canals back up and running again in a commercial capacity.
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Nov 15, 2007 14:58:06 GMT
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Well, Tesco have started using the canals again!
Of course, if the rail network wasn't absolutely F'in hopeless, there wouldn't be the need to shift so many people and freight by road. I think Japan has the fantastic Bullet trains for folk and a completely seperate rail network for freight.
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1986 Citroen 2CV Dolly Other things. Check out my Blog for the latest! www.hubnut.org
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Nov 15, 2007 15:23:37 GMT
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Well, Tesco have started using the canals again! Of course, if the rail network wasn't absolutely F'in hopeless, there wouldn't be the need to shift so many people and freight by road. I think Japan has the fantastic Bullet trains for folk and a completely seperate rail network for freight. Even if the rail network was fantastic that would only help to get trucks off the motorways, they'd still have to go into city centres and everywhere else. It's 9 miles from Luton to Hitchin by road, better to do it by truck or train into London and then back out to Hitchin? Didn't know the canals were being used again, got a story on the web for that? ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png)
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