jamesd1972
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,907 
Club RR Member Number: 40
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We are learning too and I sold off some stuff to spend on an r-tec 180. Have to say we can get things to stick together fairly well so far but are chewing through the grinding flap wheels and 1mm cutting disks ! What has helped us is a bit of study time watching other people welding and fault finding on youtube. Also the boy watches me and I watch him so we can compare techniques and look for issues. So far we have mostly been welding horseshoes together but its all practice ! Think in all honesty the nice welder is flattering us but we will be in a position to do useful work a lot sooner as the main variable is the person not the machine so much. James  |
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16grit
Part of things
Posts: 214
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I think I could probably practice at my folks/dads little garage first before battling it with the Car. If you hadn't mentioned this possibility I would have said start with a course.
The absolute key thing is to see it not as 'learning to weld' but more of a 'learning more about welding' process. It's a practical skill or set of skills, and learning about it means practicing doing it. The more time you can get on a torch before you even touch the things you want to weld the better. Plan for it. Start collecting the kit, beginning with good PPE, boots etc as others have said. A quality auto-dimming helmet is worth its weight in gold. Get your gas bottle/ regulator organised next then start shopping for a machine. Put the hours in in your dads shed on as much scrap as you can find when your free time allows. Only then, when you are comfortable with what you are producing and how much you have learnt, move on to the cars. That might only be a few weekends or it could be a few months or more, it's a challenging thing to (begin to) master, rewards patience and commitment but you never know it might become a new favourite hobby.....
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60six
Posted a lot
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Posts: 1,673
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Sounds odd, but I know how to solder and the skill is similar, but in minature! Sure it helped
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Some 9000's, a 900, an RX8 & a beetle
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cjhillman
Posted a lot
1979 Capri (Rolling Project) 1985 Escort mk3 (Daily)
Posts: 1,601
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I think I could probably practice at my folks/dads little garage first before battling it with the Car. If you hadn't mentioned this possibility I would have said start with a course.
The absolute key thing is to see it not as 'learning to weld' but more of a 'learning more about welding' process. It's a practical skill or set of skills, and learning about it means practicing doing it. The more time you can get on a torch before you even touch the things you want to weld the better. Plan for it. Start collecting the kit, beginning with good PPE, boots etc as others have said. A quality auto-dimming helmet is worth its weight in gold. Get your gas bottle/ regulator organised next then start shopping for a machine. Put the hours in in your dads shed on as much scrap as you can find when your free time allows. Only then, when you are comfortable with what you are producing and how much you have learnt, move on to the cars. That might only be a few weekends or it could be a few months or more, it's a challenging thing to (begin to) master, rewards patience and commitment but you never know it might become a new favourite hobby.....
Yeah I didnt mention Dads garage as I wasnt sure how that would go down with my folks  I just put them through a bit of stress buying a Van that didnt work out so I think if I can let the dust settle for a month and get two good helmets my Dad will get back on board. I think he'd like to try and stick things together too. The only other reason I didnt mention it is because they're in Stoke-on-Trent and i'm in west London. It would be great to find a better space down here but I think at that point I'm blowing my budget out the water Here is said garage with something inside that doesnt need welding haha.  |
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Last Edit: Aug 5, 2021 20:00:31 GMT by cjhillman
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As mentioned above, unless a course is specifically about welding up cars then a general welding course won't teach you much as anyone can join nice bits of thick steel together on a well lit bench. Doing it upside under a rusty car on the other hand is a different kettle of fish.
I'm entirely self taught and have been doing it for over 25 years (i'm only 40 now!). The things I have learnt are that cleaning the metal up is the most important thing to do, it needs to be really clean and even then welding new clean steel to new clean steel is much easier than welding new clean steel to old clean steel.
Get a decent sized bottle of gas, those little ones are no good at all if you have any serious welding to do. I have a BOC size Y argo shield bottle on their Volksown deal (not sure if they still do it now for new customers) and its around £65 per year to rent the bottle and around £50 to fill it. I used one and a half bottles on my last MK2 jag and if you look at my Econojag thread you can see that I did a fair bit of welding.
I use a Clarke 150TE welder, its around 18 years old now and the only things that have ever given me trouble are the liner and the torch. A new torch and liner at the start of the Econojag project transformed the machine again and its been faultless since.
If you find that your welding is poor then stop and work out what is wrong, you might have too much wire speed or too little power or vice versa. I've found you can get the same welds with less wire and less power if you move more slowly, everyone has their own sweet spot and its just a case of finding it. Its best to have a practice on the bench (despite what I said above about college courses) as if you can weld on the bench you have a good chance of welding on the car, if your bench welding is no good then the car welding won't be better.
Also I second the comment above about a decent welding helmet, an autodarkening one is a boon and is a world of difference to a manual one, especially when you have the torch in one hand and a screw driver in the other holding a piece of metal in place.
Best of luck.
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the thing about doing a course you have a cert at the end of it ive done level 2 tig level mig now going for level 3 experience is everything , as stated thick steel welding is so different to light steel welding
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I'm self taught and agree with the above you need lots of practice.
I have used gas but for the amount of welding I do now, gasless is fine. The wire costs a bit more more, but it's still cheaper than renting a gas bottle.
Also, practice on car bodywork thickness steel, it's more difficult than the thick stuff.
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Last Edit: Aug 6, 2021 13:42:14 GMT by minijohn
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I learnt how to weld this year. It's an invaluable skill with older cars and you know the job went when done and can take your time spraying zinc primer in areas that wouldn't normally see paint as part of your repairs.
I bought a Sealey mighty mig 130. It's good enough for me to play with but would highly recommend the following as I made these mistakes and had plop welds
1. Get a gas bottle from from somewhere like Gas UK. Don't bother with the disposables - they are expensive and don't last.
2. Get a regulator for your gas bottle so you can see the flow. I started with a simple screw one and coudn't understand why my welds were not shielding properly by the gas.
3. Clean up the metal as much as possible
4. Zinc/weld through primer the hidden sides of the metal.
Watch for dripping wax - fire risk and makes your metal dirty for welding. I haven't found a solution for this yet.
I still struggle a bit with cutting metal to do a nice butt weld but being realistic a seam weled lap weld is good enough sometimes and if it gets you moving on your project it will last a long time with the right protection...
Protecting you welds
If working under the car on something that will get a stone chip covering I do the following
Grind back weld but not flush as no need
Epoxy Primer
Seam seal weld area
Epoxy Primer
Gravitex or similar stonechip paint
Colour coat
If you're working on an area that is going to get real paint i.e. on a body panel in sight you don't need the seam seal and will probably need some filler. I haven't been confident enough to do that sort of repair yet.
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'95 VW Corrado VR6 | '91 VW Golf 16v | '96 Golf GTI 16v
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duncanmartin
Club Retro Rides Member
Out of retro ownership
Posts: 1,320
Club RR Member Number: 70
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As the others have said, practise, practise, practise some more.
If you are thinking about secondhand, check if your local welding suppliers have anything suitable - I ended up getting a used Murex from one, and he showed me a little bit of setup and threw in some tips etc. You know it's been set up with a working wire feed etc, and also have someone to take it back to if it breaks straight away!
It's also worth going to your local steel stockist and seeing if you can get off-cuts from them for a few quid. They will have a shear that means they can cut it into strips for you easily and that will make life lots easier to start with. Using random panels means you have to spend ages stripping the paint off and cutting them up, and you don't know exactly how thick they are so you are always guessing. New steel from the stockist might seem like a luxury, but it means you can work with known thickness of clean steel - for wings you might want to do 0.8mm, but if you start out at 1.2mm and work down you'll find it a lot easier (so long as you remember to tweak the settings).
Use the mig welding forum for advice - post up pictures and get them to tell you what is wrong with the welds (until there's nothing wrong with them!).
Be very careful if you do some work in your dad's garage, welding splatter can fly around the place and you wouldn't be popular if you put lots of tiny holes in his planes!
And yeah, definitely spend some money on a good mask and other PPE like gloves.
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tofufi
South West
Posts: 1,458
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Interesting that a couple of people have recommended the rtec 180. I tried a friend's one this week, and compared with my Sealey 180, I just couldn't get on with it. The fan was noisy, and I couldn't get a feel for what to adjust to get decent welds. Probably just my not being in tune with it  Definitely smaller and lighter than my Sealey though! A few people have recommended not using disposable bottles. I make mine last ages (my friend went through 4 bottles while I didn't finish one this week). I think the cheapy regulators aren't good at conserving gas! |
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The cheap regs are wildly inaccurate and inevitably leak/weep gas. I noticed going from one with a ball gauge to a proper twin gauge on a pub size bottle it made a massive difference.
I'm actually moving my mig on soon so I can buy an ac/dc tig.
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60six
Posted a lot
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Posts: 1,673
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Aug 12, 2021 21:51:12 GMT
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also, most importantly - get ready to really hate welding when you meet your nemesis!
stainless steel vband adapters. Finally, after much practice on tube, i managed to weld on a vband adapter airtight (passed the wd40 test) and the damn thing warped. Got so excited about getting it airtight I forgot the heatsink.
Taking it to the local welding place.
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Some 9000's, a 900, an RX8 & a beetle
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Aug 13, 2021 18:09:23 GMT
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also, most importantly - get ready to really hate welding when you meet your nemesis! stainless steel vband adapters. Finally, after much practice on tube, i managed to weld on a vband adapter airtight (passed the wd40 test) and the damn thing warped. Got so excited about getting it airtight I forgot the heatsink. Taking it to the local welding place. It's best to fit the other half and out the clamp on when welding those , or even better gave the other half tacked into the next but of pipe then clamp and weld. Not much use now but in future maybe. |
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Aug 13, 2021 18:12:51 GMT
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I agree, I always clamp exhausts in position to weld them up where possible.
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munky
Part of things
Posts: 462
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I learned to weld with a hand held mask and ended up with arc eye once. At uni, one of the techs had a ‘head nod’ mask, which we all fought over come the time to weld anything. Today, the biggest boon to me has been the auto darkening masks. As others have said, buy a good one of these and it makes such a difference. You don’t lose the spot you want to weld, and you can also hold stuff with your other hand if you need to. Lots of comments and good advice on here. A couple of hard learned comments… don’t weld or grind anywhere near your dads great looking Spitfire. You can end up embedding micro particles of steel in the paint, which then go on to rust. Ask me how I know…  Also, personally I would go with CO2 etc before using coated cores. As you may have read, they can be quite nasty as far as gasses are concerned and also I’ve never been able to get as nice welds. (Probably just me). If it’s a seriously windy day, create a wind break around yourself and turn the gas up, or just use the day to prep panels and weld tomorrow. Don’t forget to shield passerby’s eyes from what you are doing. If I haven’t welded for a few months, I.e. starting a new project, I typically start on floors, as they are typically hidden, easier to weld (as long as your not having to hang upside down) and get me back in the swing of things. If you have the option of spot welding (like VW pans), these can also be a good way for scaring off the caution about welding. Always disconnect the car battery. Never weld gas tanks (as there is always some residual vapor). Always cut to clean metal. Welding with pools of plop is going to result in poor welds. Make sure you have a good ground connection. On bodywork, tack things in place and only make short welds to avoid heat distortion. Wet paper towels on the surface can help with some heat. …And eventually, you will even have fun with it! |
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Last Edit: Aug 15, 2021 2:41:45 GMT by munky
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Welds look good to me. That shallow bead was no rod? I was using 1/16 filler, 100a, 1/4" steel, pushing the rod, pulling the torch (if that makes sense), no pulsing, 1/4" stick out. Tight arc very near puddle. Stuck it on the steel sometimes - oops. Damn, it got red hot! Melted my magnet! Not sure of the torch sizes, but it was the smaller of the two included with about the 1/2" cup? I tried aluminum too but it was hard to control the arc. I think the frequency or the electrode or something isn't right. Maybe I should read the manual or watch some more youtube vids. Even with the short time I tried it, this was easier than MIG to control the bead/puddle. Plus, I was able to redo a bad weld by just re-heating it. You can't do that with MIG. I found out my Miller has a wire feed issue. At the slowest speed, it's still moving fast. Bad controller board I think. I'll be tearing into it sometime soon. |
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Mar 31, 2022 16:26:46 GMT
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If you hadn't mentioned this possibility I would have said start with a course.
The absolute key thing is to see it not as 'learning to weld' but more of a 'learning more about welding' process. It's a practical skill or set of skills, and learning about it means practicing doing it. The more time you can get on a torch before you even touch the things you want to weld the better. Plan for it. Start collecting the kit, beginning with good PPE, boots etc as others have said. A quality auto-dimming helmet is worth its weight in gold. Get your gas bottle/ regulator organised next then start shopping for a machine. Put the hours in in your dads shed on as much scrap as you can find when your free time allows. Only then, when you are comfortable with what you are producing and how much you have learnt, move on to the cars. That might only be a few weekends or it could be a few months or more, it's a challenging thing to (begin to) master, rewards patience and commitment but you never know it might become a new favourite hobby.....
Yeah I didnt mention Dads garage as I wasnt sure how that would go down with my folks I just put them through a bit of stress buying a Van that didnt work out so I think if I can let the dust settle for a month and get two good helmets my Dad will get back on board. I think he'd like to try and stick things together too. The only other reason I didnt mention it is because they're in Stoke-on-Trent and i'm in west London. It would be great to find a better space down here but I think at that point I'm blowing my budget out the water Here is said garage with something inside that doesnt need welding haha. Whereabouts in West London are you, I'm near Heathrow and looking to start welding . I'm pretty much in the same positon as you, welding is stopping me make any progress with my projects. |
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cjhillman
Posted a lot
1979 Capri (Rolling Project) 1985 Escort mk3 (Daily)
Posts: 1,601
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Yeah I didnt mention Dads garage as I wasnt sure how that would go down with my folks I just put them through a bit of stress buying a Van that didnt work out so I think if I can let the dust settle for a month and get two good helmets my Dad will get back on board. I think he'd like to try and stick things together too. The only other reason I didnt mention it is because they're in Stoke-on-Trent and i'm in west London. It would be great to find a better space down here but I think at that point I'm blowing my budget out the water Here is said garage with something inside that doesnt need welding haha. Whereabouts in West London are you, I'm near Heathrow and looking to start welding . I'm pretty much in the same positon as you, welding is stopping me make any progress with my projects. We just moved about a month ago to Manchester unfortunately. I never got to buy a welder either due to work. I have had to have a huge amount of welding done to my Escort though. I think it would have been un realistic in the end with that Car but I would still love to learn in the future. |
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cjhillman
Posted a lot
1979 Capri (Rolling Project) 1985 Escort mk3 (Daily)
Posts: 1,601
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Apr 14, 2022 15:52:25 GMT
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Unfortunately I had to send mine to the welders. I'd saved up and had a reasonably priced job done to get it back on the road safely. I think it would have been beyond me but I am still keen. The only problem is I've moved to a place without and work space and used all my spare cash on professional welding. IF I can keep hold of both cars the Capri will need abit of cosmetic stuff doing so I still would love to have a go in the future... Heres some photos of what the last MOT uncovered on my Escort    If you want to see more just search Escort mk3 Popular in readers rides. |
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Apr 17, 2022 14:51:35 GMT
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Unfortunately I had to send mine to the welders. I'd saved up and had a reasonably priced job done to get it back on the road safely. I think it would have been beyond me but I am still keen. The only problem is I've moved to a place without and work space and used all my spare cash on professional welders( these as example). IF I can keep hold of both cars the Capri will need abit of cosmetic stuff doing so I still would love to have a go in the future... Heres some photos of what the last MOT uncovered on my Escort  1 If you want to see more just search Escort mk3 Popular in readers rides. Really sad... How much did the welders estimate? |
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Last Edit: May 20, 2022 8:12:19 GMT by frank223
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I just put them through a bit of stress buying a Van that didnt work out so I think if I can let the dust settle for a month and get two good helmets my Dad will get back on board. I think he'd like to try and stick things together too. The only other reason I didnt mention it is because they're in Stoke-on-Trent and i'm in west London. It would be great to find a better space down here but I think at that point I'm blowing my budget out the water
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