kilroy
Part of things
Suit you sir...
Posts: 251
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I guess this might be Marina #23 for me, but I am no longer concerned about numbers. I got contacted via a UK Marina website that a New Zealand Marina owner was looking for help with his project. I was unable to supply him with a correct O series engine for his estate, and the B series engine his car came with was in trouble. Over a period of time we communicated until he decided the project was beyond him and decided to part with it. He offered it to me for free as he really wanted it to be saved. Having seen photos of the body I agreed - it really needed to be saved. To retrieve it from where he lived was going to cost me at least NZ$1000, so I did not see that I could justify it, even though I did have an engine and transmission that would revive it. Sheesh.! As it happened, I was in charge of a local ex-competition rally coupe that belonged to a friend, and which a buyer had been found for, and as he also lived in the NZ North Island as did this estate, I asked if he would be willing to pay for a one way ferry trip if I trailered his car north in order to drag mine south. He agreed, so the game was on. Despite the continuing road issues which cause traffic stoppages, we made the pilgrimage north with the rally coupe.  That actually worked, albeit a day later than intended as the ferry company cancelled my sailings on the Saturday, but I was able to get the same sailings on the Sunday and extend the trailer rental by a day. I met a really cool Dude at the place I dropped the Coupe off, and such events make you realise that it is all a part of some greater plan. Love it when that happens. From there I found my way to the place where the estate lived, and was chuffed to finally meet the owner who I had spoken to at great length by email. I had decided that I would have to give him a few hundred dollars for the car even though he had offered it for free, as it had cost him money and was a viable project. When he showed me all the stuff he had bought for its repair, and which he was now giving me, I felt like a total tightarse, but he seemed to be pretty happy that I was giving him anything at all. One of the reasons I love working with these old cars. The people are just the best. I have made a promise that he gets first dibs if I decide to sell it after I have completed it. We loaded the estate up and I dragged it back to the ferry. 7 hours of ferry crossings in one day can seriously damage your humour. Never mind. We have a challenge here. Stayed with friends at the southern end of the voyage, as I arrived close to midnight. Here's how things looked in the morning..  Next day we dragged this back to Christchurch which was about 300 miles by the route we took. I was concerned about the auto in the Volvo being under stress so was trying to adopt an easier route, but it turned out to be more difficult than the northbound coastal one. But we survived. Work on the estate began the next day. |
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Last Edit: Aug 22, 2020 10:05:29 GMT by kilroy
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kilroy
Part of things
Suit you sir...
Posts: 251
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Aug 22, 2020 10:22:14 GMT
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I pretty quickly discovered that this car had been assembled in order to sell it - not to drive it. While the previous owner said he managed to get it running, and it smoked profusely, he also found that there was no gearbox oil and the gearbox had not been assembled completely, as-in the tailshaft housing had not been tightened up and that was where all the oil had leaked out. I had a quick look and found that the gearbox support had not been tightened up either..  There were also the occasional wiring alterations which had been left to do their own thing..  It was beginning to look like the previous owner had made a wise choice to pass it on. The gearlever did not seem to be commanding any gears to change, the suspension was all from a much earlier model and in dubious repair, two compressions were absent from the engine dept, the starter motor was in trouble, there was as much fuel in the sump as there was oil, none of the lights worked, the oil light did not work, and I discovered that a wire from the starter motor had been connected to the oil pressure light switch. This would have vaporised the first time anyone tried to start the thing except for the fact that it had a diode halfway along it, and that vaporised instead. We seemed to be getting a picture. |
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Last Edit: Aug 22, 2020 10:23:50 GMT by kilroy
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Aug 22, 2020 11:41:59 GMT
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Sounds like an epic road trip to make the 'save'. Will look forward to seeing how this goes. My Grandad had a brown saloon in the early 1980s and compared to our family Fiat 126 seemed like the future had parked outside our house. Bookmarked 😎
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kilroy
Part of things
Suit you sir...
Posts: 251
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The engine could apparently be started, but there were wiring issues to sort and the ignition key/steering lock was partially porked and would not return from starting position, so I decided to replace it and deal to a few electrics before attempting to see if it could make noises. Easiest way to replace the ignition is to swap the steering column rather than drill out or nuke the anti-theft bolts with their snapped off heads.  The engine bay was a bit squiffy. Cables had been routed in interesting ways, the airfilter was removed, and the coil had been wrapped in a soft drink can - presumably to give it some fizz. Being a total unknown quantity I was not sure how far I should persevere with the engine as I had other options, but I figured it was worth trying it to see what might happen, so I would just do what was needed to get to that point.  Carbs seemed to be in working order but I refitted the airbox anyway, as much to make sure I had all the bits than because I might be driving it far in the near future. Replaced choke and accelerator cables and coil. Tried to check the distributor timing but it was totally seized in the side of the block and could not be moved. The retaining clamp was well bent so somebody had already had a go at this. I dumped the petrol/oil mix from the sump and put some fresh 20/50 in it in case we got lucky. Ready for the off.!  Well, I gave it all the battery had, but it did not even fire. The starter motor was struggling and I found the terminal on the solenoid was heating up because the nut would not tighten. I dropped the starter motor out then thought better of it. How far should I go before deciding this was wasted effort.? Hmmm. Sitting on what I laughingly call 'lawn' is a terminally rusted Marina sedan with a very good engine of similar origin to this one. It is however connected to an auto, the usual Borg Warner 65 which were also fitted to large ships as ballast. At least they are mounted midships and low in the Marina, so act as a form of added stability. Mind you - this one is quite low mileage since a full rebuild by a very skilled chap who set it up to work very well with the engine it is joined to. Despite having now outlived no less than 3 Marina bodies, this engine still runs great and develops respectable grunt thanks to being bored out to take modified Mk3 Zephyr pistons. It now displaces 1903cc and has 11/1 compression ratio, so having an anti run-on device is mandatory, because being an auto you simply can't stop the damn thing. As the gearbox in the estate is also looking like a pile of problems waiting for a pension I could swap the whole lot over and turn it into an auto. So that is now the plan.  I will drop the engine and transmission out of this, give it a spruce up, then drop the engine/gearbox out of the estate and swap them over. What could possibly go wrong... |
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Oct 20, 2020 20:16:43 GMT
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Looks a good project, are the plates still live?
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kilroy
Part of things
Suit you sir...
Posts: 251
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Oct 20, 2020 20:41:28 GMT
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Indeed they are.
And legally in my name.
Last used on the road in 2010, but the neglect goes much further...
Condition of the body makes the effort worthwhile, probably one of the best in NZ right now.
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Last Edit: Oct 20, 2020 20:43:16 GMT by kilroy
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kilroy
Part of things
Suit you sir...
Posts: 251
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Battle commences. The Marina has no crossmembers apart from at the rear of the gearbox, and that is removable, so the easiest way to get the engine and transmission out is to simply drop it on the deck. After that the body can be raised and the engine slid out. Removing the carbs, cables, wiring, propshaft etc takes all the time, and the engine is then out in minutes.  I use a piece of wood beneath the engine with a pair of small rollers under it, and the whole thing rolls easily as you keep replacing the rear roller to the front. There is enough room between the hoist legs for the engine to fit into so the hoist can then be taken away. Simples.  Now. I shall digress a bit because a number of things now had to happen. The yellow body got stripped out after the engine came out, and I want it to disappear. It has some scrap value but I cannot be bothered dealing with it, and as I need the suspension from it, handling the body would get much more difficult. I have another Marina project about to begin in the form of a Leyland Australia Marina 6 Coupe. It was an unfinished race car build which I acquired and came with a newly built 1800 B series engine, which I will be using at least initially. The Marina 6 suspension is much heavier than the UK models have, plus it uses a different stud pattern (Ford) which means none of my other wheels would fit, so all the Leyland suspension needs to go.  My idea is to fit all the surplus bits back into the rusty yellow body and sell it as-is, so my problems all disappear. I figure the wheels, suspension, sports steering wheel, sway bars and incidentals will make it attractive enough to fetch a modest sum, especially with the wheels being usable on period Fords. So it all came out of there and went in here...  That rear axle feels to be about 50% heavier than the UK type, and the last thing I need is even more unsprung weight. It also has slightly lower gearing at 3.89 against 3.63 which I see as another negative. The front suspension is also much heavier duty, with torsion bars of a massive 27mm, where the UK models used 19mm with an HD option of 21mm. As it was not going to be a road car the front suspension had been made adjustable, so getting that complied for road use would involve 'money', so lets not. None of the parts are interchangeable between the two, although the shocks probably would have been if they had not been modified.  So with all that in place I could push the yellow car away from the work space and back onto the neatly manicured 'lawn'. I will keep it around for the time being as I need it as a template. While the Leyland used a UK made body shell, the Australians wanted to use their own running gear and trim, so I am not sure that all the mounting points will be there for my UK interior and mechanicals. I may need to copy or liberate some parts from the yellow shell yet.  The next job is to tidy up the liberated engine so that it is ready to go straight into the estate when I drop the non-runner out. I never know when another vehicle may decide it requires a repair, so I do not want any taking root in front of the garage where I work. Shame I cannot do so inside it, but that has motorcycles and stashed old car parts in every workable space. Shame. |
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kilroy
Part of things
Suit you sir...
Posts: 251
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The boring part of all this is the neverending cleaning up of nasty stuff. I must have doubled the sales of wire brushes at least in the southern hemisphere. So the engine began getting its long overdue tart up. The water pump had long since cried quits, so that came off, but I figured I would repaint things before fitting the new one.  The estate gave up its engine and gearbox with hardly a protest, although I removed the chin spoiler for a bit easier clearance. There would be quite a few changes needed for the transition from manual to auto, which would include wiring, pedal box and shifter mechanism, so I hoped to get things in the right order so I did not have to repeat anything or undo stuff that was in the way of other stuff. The carpets would need to come out first, but they were in such a state they would have had to go anyway.  I have a few sets of old carpets stashed away from previous dismantlings, but whether they are complete and/or have their soundproofing remains to be seen. I doubt that any replacement sets available today are as well made or shaped as the originals were, so I hope to get a passable finish here. Anyway, the old stuff came out and went direct to the rubbish heap. The first salvageable rear section got fitted, and the auto shifter was the next job, as it needed to be in place before the engine went in. Handbrake lever also got changed as the one it came with was naff.  After a good degree of grovelling underneath it was light relief to fit the engine. For no apparent reason it was a real struggle to get the front engine mounts in place. They had not been out long, but the rubbers seemed to have put on weight and resisted to the point that I had to remove the RHS one then reinstall it once the engine was in place. New water pump had been fitted beforehand, but the fan went on once the engine was in place. There were no other issues, and I had left the crossmember on the auto so it was a cinch to mount it straight up and add the propshaft. I attached the handbrake cable when I changed the lever, so that was not going to be a problem later.  Next task was to replace the 2 pedal box with a 1 pedal. The accelerator pedal is mounted separately. No doubt the local sea air does not help, but all alloy bits go real crusty quite quick, so having wire brushed the pedal box mounting plate I treated it to a coat of clear lacquer to encourage it to stay that way. Brake booster got a coat of engine paint and the master cylinder some wheel paint. Cool what comes out of a can these days. I figured I would investigate the braking system before putting any fluid back in the reservoir.  It had been obvious while pushing the estate around that the rear brakes were binding, so there was reason to assume they would need attention. I would never recommission a car without doing so anyway, but I figured this would probably involve the whole 9 yards... |
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Last Edit: Oct 21, 2020 8:54:07 GMT by kilroy
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Oct 21, 2020 19:01:05 GMT
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We're marina engines popular things to over bore in NZ? I remember fetching done paint for my marina van when I was in Auckland years ago and the guy behind the counter was telling me they had built a 2 litre engine using Audi (I think) pistons.
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kilroy
Part of things
Suit you sir...
Posts: 251
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Oct 21, 2020 19:25:46 GMT
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We're marina engines popular things to over bore in NZ? I remember fetching done paint for my marina van when I was in Auckland years ago and the guy behind the counter was telling me they had built a 2 litre engine using Audi (I think) pistons. With a 4 cylinder engine a lot of material has to be removed from the bores to gain much capacity. This engine was taken from 3.16" (standard B series 1800) to 3.25" (standard Mk3 Zephyr) and that results in only 103cc extra, so I imagine you would be taking twice that to get to 2 litre. That amounts to boring it 0.130", which is 3.3mm. I would be a tad concerned about whether enough thickness remained in the cylinder walls to prevent distortion of the bores in use. Another thing is that these blocks have siamesed bores, where the centre two are extremely close together. This requires the use of fairly 'oval' pistons to prevent seizure from localised heating. It also means that there is very little surface area for the head gasket to seal on, and overboring is making that even less, when gasket failure between cylinders 2 and 3 was already commonplace, even more so with the 1275 A series. Most people looking for increased performance in the day would have concentrated on carbs, skimming the head, cams, exhausts and if they were wealthy, gasflowing. A lot of scope for gaining power in that lot. |
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Last Edit: Oct 21, 2020 19:33:00 GMT by kilroy
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kilroy
Part of things
Suit you sir...
Posts: 251
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It was time to investigate the rear brakes. The Marina Mk3 has manual adjusters on the rear of the backplate. When I checked, there were none. Hmmm. Removing a brake drum with some difficulty revealed that the estate currently featured a rear axle from some years earlier, and these had self-adjusting rear brakes.  Needless to say, they don't, so later models (such as this one..) returned to using manual adjusters. As it happened, I had a complete Mk3 rear axle nearby, having removed it from a sedan which had been written off in an accident, so I immediately swapped them over. I also fitted a new pair of rear shocks. Then I gave the early axle away to a guy who had just spent $150 on a replacement rear axle for his estate only to find it was as bad as his own. So that worked out well. Removing a drum from this one showed things to be in reasonable condition considering.  What I find is that while things can look ok, if the car has not been in use for some time, the wheel cylinders will invariably be seized solid. These were, so I stripped the whole assembly and wire brushed everything to within an inch of its life. I figure that there is really no advantage in painting inside brake housings, so I simply replaced the cylinders.  Having reassembled that I moved to the front suspension. Surprise surprise, it was also from a much earlier model Marina. My guess is that all that suspension was from the same car that donated the engine and gearbox.  The earlier suspension featured rubber bushes between the top swivel joint and the shock absorber arm, which forms the top arm of the suspension. The rubber bush introduced some vagueness into the steering and was eventually replaced with a tapered pin that directly engaged with a revised shock absorber arm. That meant this lot would need to go. So out it came. Most of it was fit for another tour of duty, so I hoped to find some later model shock absorbers and swivel joints which would convert it all back to the correct parts for this car. The lower parts of the upright need a good supply of grease, and these had not seen any for a very long time. Perhaps since 1982. People stopped doing regular maintenance about the time Japanese cars began appearing on the local market, so the neglect set in.  A rampage of wire brushing and numerous coats of engine paint soon had things looking a tad more cheerful. I had some difficulty removing the trunnions from the bottom of the uprights, as they were pretty rusted together in the absence of grease. That might explain the heavy steering.  With nolathane bushes fitted to the radius rods it all went back together without drama, and the shock absorbers I used felt to be firm yet compliant. It is a bit of an art compressing the lower suspension to the point where it can be reconnected to the shock absorber, but a small degree of lowering makes it easier. So thats nice..  So it all came together minus the brake calipers. I enquired about having them rebuilt. The local brake specialists wanted $220 per side to do that, so I decided to do it myself. I did not pull them apart, but cleaned them all up externally and moved the pistons up and down their bores until they moved freely enough to not drag. I found a set of pads that were all about half worn as I wanted the pistons to sit at that part of their stroke rather than out where they had been beginning to rust up. It worked very well and after refitting them I bled the whole brake system, after which I had good pedal pressure as well as brakes which operated nicely but did not not drag at all. Win.  While the car was still in the air I fitted the secret weapon. This is a factory option in the form of an anti-swaybar of no less than 1+1/8" diameter, which completely cures the old Marina tendency to behave like a sled, and which gave rise to the UK club magazine title "understeer". There was also a rear anti-swaybar, but it was not fitted to estates as they had much stronger rear springs.  That marked the completion of both suspension and brake rebuilding until such time as test driving might bring anything else to light that required attention. I did not check the wheel alignment as it looked to be fairly close at a glance, and I would need to ascertain where the steering wheel sat before I adjusted anything. I did know that I had equal turns to left and right before full lock, so my job would be to make sure that straight ahead steering wheel equalled straight ahead travel. Only road testing can prove that. |
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Last Edit: Oct 22, 2020 8:23:52 GMT by kilroy
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It's strange how much has been changed to the earlier model. Had it been properly assembled or just thrown together to make it moveable?
I wonder if somebody already took all the nice parts off it and just put back the worn out ones?
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kilroy
Part of things
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Posts: 251
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It was far from properly assembled and all the engine mount bolts were only finger tight.
It seemed that someone had thrown enough parts into it so it could be deemed 'complete', but it was certainly far from roadworthy.
I have always treated any Marinas I acquired with the utmost suspicion, as most of them came for free anyway, and that often meant that the previous owners had simply given up, and quite likely at some stage of an intended repair process.
The only way to ensure that the car would not let you down was to go through absolutely everything.
Mind you, it was very simple technology, and once in order, it would reward with thousands of miles of reliable service. Hopefully this one will do likewise...
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kilroy
Part of things
Suit you sir...
Posts: 251
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Now the car was at least safe enough to sit on its own wheels it seemed time to complete the engine work. The carbs got stripped and cleaned up, and the heat shield got a coat of paint. I had also found a powder coated rocker cover that had been stored away for future use. Time has come today...  I see in that pic that the accelerator cable is looking a little distressed. Hopefully it will hang around for a while. Airfilter went back on and everything seemed happy to resume its normal place.  Next step was to reinstate several electrical devices. First was a relay that I added to cure a problem that afflicts many Marinas with auto transmissions. There is a start inhibitor which prevents the engine being started unless the transmission is in park or neutral. The switch for this is on the auto itself under the car, and the nature of the switch itself and the wiring will often result in intermittent operation of the starter. Fitting a relay solves this problem. The second item consists of both a relay and a solenoid valve whose purpose is to deliver fresh air into the inlet manifold at the instant the ignition is turned off, thus preventing a tendency for the engine to run on. This setup requires some extra wiring from the ignition switch to the relay, and from the relay to special terminals on the oil pressure light switch, so some dabbling behind the dashboard was going to be necessary.  What that led to was the removal of the entire dashboard. During my attentions I found that the dashboard was broken and flapping around on the left side. Figuring that the wiring repairs I had to undertake would be easier with the dash out, it came out...  It was now necessary to find a replacement dashboard, so I delved into the corners of the shed and located no less than 5 of them. Seems I have dismantled quite a few Marinas then. The best examples went outside for closer scrutiny.  Having chosen the best it was then a matter of checking all the switches and gauges and lighting to ensure it all worked before installing it in the car. These jobs are a bit of a test, as you spend hours without making any visible progress. I did my best to be thorough, but the ancient lampholders can be a fiddle, and work one moment and not the next. I have previously fitted LED's in place of the tiny lamps inside the switches, but for now I just want to make progress, so that can be done later if needed. It did eventually start to make sense, so I started the onerous job of fitting it all back in place.  Meanwhile I had a new set of tyres fitted to the original steel rims. They also get stainless trims and some plastic hubcaps that replicate an alloy look, rather a cheap shot but they do manage to look quite smart. As a mojo boost I fitted them and dropped the car on its wheels for a photo.  Now that feels like progress..! Much happy. |
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Oct 22, 2020 17:49:06 GMT
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That looks really smart! Were they ever badged as Itals in NZ, the last of the facelifted ones in the UK were.
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Last Edit: Oct 22, 2020 17:50:46 GMT by dodgerover
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kilroy
Part of things
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Posts: 251
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Oct 22, 2020 20:20:09 GMT
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Itals were never sold here, so this estate was assembled during the final year of production in NZ.
With the advent of the Mk3, there were not even any 'Marina' badges on locally assembled cars, they were simply called 'Morris 1700'. Perhaps this was in response to market resistance associated with bad press received by early Marinas in the UK.
They need not have worried. There were plenty of Morris stalwarts in NZ and these were the final offerings, so they sold well enough. Most were bought by older owners who had been through a few previous Morris models, so these felt like quite an upgrade.
The bonus in all of that for me has been that most late models were garaged from new, and covered only moderate miles, so by the time I began collecting them they were still in good shape but had no resale value. I got most of them for free.
Hard to beat.
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Hey Ken- fantastic thread and great read ! Thanks so much for taking the time to share it. I love seeing a car get rescued and reading all the little in and outs of the process. Its a smart looking car that. Glad to see you're still kicking about playing with these! It would be neat if you could copy and paste this thread over into Oldschool as well- always nice to see more pommy cars and your story telling would go down well there  Alex |
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kilroy
Part of things
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Posts: 251
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Hey Alex.
Happy/sad to see your housetruck go, but no doubt the next one will be a natural evolution.
Can't wait to see how the glodwing goes in the imp.
Love the way you think.
Cheers.
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kilroy
Part of things
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Posts: 251
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I had to push the car across the yard to turn it around, then push it back to operate on the other end to fit a rear bumper and connect the wiring for all the lights.  It is always easiest to have the car in the air so it is easier to operate underneath it. So it was when I decided it might be time to see if it would actually run. As you do. So this was that... A positive note. |
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kilroy
Part of things
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Posts: 251
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Oct 24, 2020 21:44:48 GMT
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Whoopee. It would now be possible for it to move around the property under its own steam - excellent. Despite the fact that the driving position left a little to be desired...  So the next thing was to throw some wheels on it. But which wheels..?  ... or...  Have to say, I was really looking forward to having to make this decision... |
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