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I also bought a pair of brackets to convert to an XJ6 rack for £40 as well so with a secondhand rack and an electric pump from something like a Vauxhall Astra I should be able to do it reasonably economically. Hey Homer, Quite a bit of progress since your last update on Jagforums, great work! Sorry to hear about the house move. But at least you still have your garage! I have a couple of questions please. I have pondered the PS issue over and over. I think, given that everything is now off the car, I'm not going for 'original' (No Sireeee) and the obvious benefits, I've decided that PS will be fitted. Now, which PS system? I have read an article recently about modifying the steering column to incorporate a Corsa EPS system. It seems straight forward and it keeps the original geometry plus it only costs around £100. BUT, it means I have to (possibly) refurb the existing steering box, if there's any play in the original system, this will not improve matters obviously. So looking at the method you are proposing, what costs are involved? The rack I've seen on eBay for less than £100.Then £40 for the brackets (where did you source those BTW?) and an electric pump. Do the track rods from the XJ6 fit? Is it any model of XJ6 rack that fits do you know? I'm not overly concerned about bump-steer, I don't intend to drive it that hard to notice (I can't imagine that it would be SO bad to make it dangerous for the driving I intend to do), and as you say, incorrect Ackerman will only scrub the tyres a bit. So, any advice you can share would be appreciated. Next question, Your recent front wing/arch/sill panel replacement. I did something similar with one of mine, but the panel was cut down so much, the replacement was simply butt welded in without too much of an issue. The other side, I will need to use pretty much ALL of the panel. It appears that you've overlapped yours on the arch, then spot-welded. I don't have a spot-welder unfortunately, so would you recommend I butt weld again, or is there any benefit to overlapping and seam welding? I've not a great deal of experience in welding, only what I've done so far on my car. Third question, where did you get a replacement sidelight pod? Thanks and keep us updated! To be honest the MK2 Jag manual steering is fine apart from it being 5 turns lock to lock. Whilst it can a bit of struggle to turn when not moving in general use its ok, however, the 5 turns lock to lock is a bit disconcerting when you are used to modern cars.
Fitting a powered column won't help the ratio it will just make it light and if you don't have some clever system to reduce assistance at speed it might feel overlight, it my view this solution is the worst of both worlds in that its complicated, probably overlight at speed and still feels like you are piloting an oil tanker.
The XJ6 system that I had before and will have again is much better in my view and I suspect that whilst on paper there are issues most of them are theorteical rather than real world issues, certainly the one I had previously seemed fine to me.
The problem is that a load of people who have never driven one and the majority of who had never heard of the terms bumpe steer or ackermann angle before have read an article talking about it and are now armchair experts and have panned the systems available. The question is how many people who have actually had one of these systems have removed it and gone back to standard, I suspect not many. Even mass produced cars have issues as there is generally a compromise, I remember reading a very interesting article by someone about the problems with the ackermann angle on long wheel base minis (Van's, pickups and estates) which again was theoretical and not noticed in the real world.
When I come to rebuild the front suspension on mine I am hoping to be able to remove the front springs and compaire the standard setup to an XJ6 rack and see how much difference there is
I bought the XJ6 brackets from e-bay, they do come up from time to time but if not they are from M&C Wilkinson and they might sell them seperately to the kit if you ask, certainly thats how I did my first one back in 2004 by buying the brackets and other bits and bobs from them at a show.
You also need to shorten the steering linkange between the column and the rack so that requires a bit of confidence in welding and it needs oversleeving, it might be worth having that done if your not confident, certainly I wouldn't use my Clarke 150 welder for this, last time I used my friends much larger industrial unit to get good penetration of weld.
You need the XJ6 rack with the shorter tower which I think might be series 3 and possibly later XJS, the XJ6 track rod ends do fit but you need to shorten the rack and rethread the ends a bit to make it narrower.
The electric pump they use now is Vauxhall Astra/Zafira I think and you will need an alternator to provide enough power for this rather than the original dynamo.
The advantage with doing this is that you create less distortion, in fact the spot welder creates practically none. It would be possible to plug weld them on as well and distortion would be less and you can off course butt weld them but then distortion becomes an issue as the wheel arch is fairly flimsy once you get past the baffle panel as there isn't anything to support it other than its own shape so once distorted it would be a nightmare to get straight again. If you do joggle and overlap it you need to make sure you seal the back of it up really well to prevent any corrosion.
The side light pods are available from the usual suppliers like David Manners www.jagspares.co.uk/product/side-light-housing--mk2-v8/mr0013 but I just had a look and can't belive how much they are. I removed and repaired one of mine and replaced the other one with one I bought on ebay. The best thing to do is totally remove the entire side light pod by drilling out the spotwelds, then remove the panel under it (if necessary) by drilling out the spotwelds and then replace this (as its fairly simple to make) and then either refit the original pod with repairs as necessary or replace. If you do need one let me know as I might have a spare one for a resonable price as i'm sure I bought a pair and only used one (they arn't handed left/right). |
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Wow, thanks for such a comprehensive answer. Homer Very much appreciated.
The EPS system I was looking at did have a variable sensitivity control, but having to adjust this continually whilst driving is hardly ideal. I think I will go down the proven XJ6 route, but I need to make further investigations too, so I ensure I purchase the correct items. I'll contact M&C Wilkinson tomorrow. Cheers.
I already have a joggler, but only used it as a hole punch so far. It's a budget model and is hard to operate powerfully enough to create a clearly defined step in the sheet steel. Maybe I need a better model, or maybe I need to go to the gym. It's a technique I've not attempted before on a large panel, so I'm a little apprehensive, especially given the cost of the repair panel I've just bought. Having said that, the other side with the butt welding was also a technique I'd not attempted on a large panel before too. Ah well, it has to be done, one way or another.
Regarding the pods, I don't think I've got the hang of the search tool on Manners yet, as I did try to search there earlier. I think I do need at least one, but will check for sure on the weekend. I'll PM you if required, thanks.
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Wow, thanks for such a comprehensive answer. Homer Very much appreciated. The EPS system I was looking at did have a variable sensitivity control, but having to adjust this continually whilst driving is hardly ideal. I think I will go down the proven XJ6 route, but I need to make further investigations too, so I ensure I purchase the correct items. I'll contact M&C Wilkinson tomorrow. Cheers. I already have a joggler, but only used it as a hole punch so far. It's a budget model and is hard to operate powerfully enough to create a clearly defined step in the sheet steel. Maybe I need a better model, or maybe I need to go to the gym. It's a technique I've not attempted before on a large panel, so I'm a little apprehensive, especially given the cost of the repair panel I've just bought. Having said that, the other side with the butt welding was also a technique I'd not attempted on a large panel before too. Ah well, it has to be done, one way or another. Regarding the pods, I don't think I've got the hang of the search tool on Manners yet, as I did try to search there earlier. I think I do need at least one, but will check for sure on the weekend. I'll PM you if required, thanks. What I tend to do is cut the repair panel down so that it only covers the area you need, the panel is quite wide around the arch and its too flat so if you use the full width its not quite right.
Then I hold it up to the wing and mark the line and then cut inside this by the width of the joggler, then clean it up, joggle it and then drill and self tap it on. Once the fit is right I clean it up and weld it on.
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I've moved on to the offside rear corner which is something I had been putting off for a long time as I knew it was in a bad way.
After the blasting session we had this:
And I then removed the outer panel and the tonneau section to leave this, you can see that the inner chassis rail section is rotten and although I didn't get a photo of it the bottom is gone as well.
The rear of the spare wheel well and the associated panels were also in a bad way so saw some action with the grinder:
I then set about the task of rebuilding it all and made a new chassis rail section:
Next I need to repair the bumper mounting panel, fit the tonneau panel and fit the rear wing outer section.
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I went out this evening to do a bit more and my luck finally ran out with welding bottle and its now empty. I need to pop to BOC to get another one.
Thats one door skin, the bits of welding on the rear corner above and part of the welding of the front arch (the bits I didn't use the spot welder for) since the bottle said it was empty on the gauge :-)
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goldnrust
West Midlands
Minimalist
Posts: 1,887
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It's coming along well  It does seem that these cars can rot anywhere and everywhere! I hate running out of welding gas, it always seems to happen at the worst moment. |
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With a full bottle of gas I fired up the mig again and it was welding much better, although I still had gas before I guess it perhaps wasn't as concentrated for the last little bit once the gauge was reading empty.
Firstly the bumper mounting panel was repaired and the rear panel behind the bumper was really rotten behind the slam panel (which itself is rotten along the bottom) so both got removed leaving a big gap.
Then the tonneau panel was fitted and lined up with the marks I made when the old one was removed.
The rear wing repair panel was cut to size and tacked into place (aflter lining up with the spat).
Next the edge of the spare wheel well came in for some attention to repair around the lip.
A repair panel for the inner wing was made using the original panel removed from this area which I kept and this and a section of the upper arch were welded into place. The spotwelder one again proving useful where I can get it in.
The sections were treated to a sesson with the angle grinder and a fibre disc.
The spare wheelwell was welded to the new chassis rail previous constructed and the plug welds were ground back,
A view of the inner wheelarch repair panel from inside the spare wheelwell.
The rear wing repair panel and tonneau panel were fully welded into place and ground back.
The final section of the inner rear wheel arch was made and welded in, this panel is originally a seperate piece that sits on top of the rest of the wheelarch so I recreated it to be the same.
A view of the final inner rear wing repair sections and the outer rear wing repair showing it all completed and ground up, not too bad considering it was really rotten before, just the other side and the middle panels to sort out and some repairs to the spare wheelwell.
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Paul Y
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,951
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Such great work. You are to be applauded Sir. P.  |
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Very inspiring, seeing the extent of work being carried out in a methodical manner,
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Thanks all for the nice comments, its certainly coming along although being off work (on holiday) for two weeks with nowhere to go is certainly helping :-)
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This evening I managed to wangle some more garage time and had a go at lead loading one of the sidelight pods. This is what I started with after it was repaired and then shotblasted and primed.
First I stripped all the primer off with a wire wheel in an angle grinder, I then scuffed it up with a DA disc by hand as the wire wheel tends to make it too smooth.
Then I painted the area with the special flux power paint that I bought from Frost and heated this up and wiped it over to remove any residue.
Then I heated up the panel and the lead sticks and started spreading it on with a paddle with a bit of tallow on it.
Then I found a good coarse file and smoothed it down.
I then cleaned it down with some thinners on a clean rag, I did this a couple of times to get any remaining flux off.
I could have left it at that as i'm going to use filler over it for the final contour so I thought I would have a go at putting some more lead on the low areas, I heated the low areas up and put some more lead on them which is quite tricky as you need to heat the lead on the car up so it will stick together but if you get it too hot it all starts to flow out and then you are back where you started.
Once I had done the best I could I filed it down again, ran over it with the DA with an 80 grit disc (wearing a dust mask) and was left with this.
There are still a few low spots and I could mess around with it longer but as there will be filler elsewhere in the car it doesn't seem sensible to try and do this without any, its probably around 90% there as it is.
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Jul 11, 2020 18:09:27 GMT
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Carrying on with the rear of the car I started to repair the rear panel end as below.
I then moved over to the other side and removed the rotten tonneau panel and lower section of the rear wing.
I repaired the end of the chassis rail that had rotted out (seen at the far right of the pictures below).
I then repaired and refitted the bumper mounting panel.
And then trial fitted the new panels, note the dotted line which shows roughly the size of the new repair panel to make sure I didn't cut too much out.
The panels are now all cleaned up ready to fit tommorrow and then I can finish reparing the inner rear panel.
The next problem is that the rear outer panel needs to be replaced and its a fairly simple flat section that curves in one direction but it has two flutes running along its length that will be very difficulty if not impossible to replicate, as you don't see the panel when the bumper is on I think I will probably just make it flat.
This is what it should look like, any thoughts on this or how I could replicate the ribs?
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Jul 11, 2020 19:56:19 GMT
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Firstly - Your lead loading is spot on - that rear panel would be tricky to form in one piece but not impossible - I'd be tempted to knock a timber former / buck up and then dress the sheet over it you would need to retain the sheet against the former / buck with suitable clamps - has you dressed the flutes down with a hardwood chaser - but its certainty doable
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Jul 11, 2020 20:24:20 GMT
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Firstly - Your lead loading is spot on - that rear panel would be tricky to form in one piece but not impossible - I'd be tempted to knock a timber former / buck up and then dress the sheet over it you would need to retain the sheet against the former / buck with suitable clamps - has you dressed the flutes down with a hardwood chaser - but its certainty doable Thanks Grumpynorthener, I have access to a table saw and various other items of woodworking equipment that were my dads that I could use to make a former.
I need to have a look and see what wood I have but i'm in two minds about doing it as you can't see the panel when the bumper is fitted and it is a lot of work to make it anything like. If I have to buy some timber then it might be not much more to buy the panel which is around £90 and then i'm back to square one of why don't I just leave it plain. |
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scimjim
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 1,503
Club RR Member Number: 8
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Econo Jag MK2 1967 2.4 Autoscimjim
@scimjim
Club Retro Rides Member 8
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Jul 11, 2020 20:49:05 GMT
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It’s presumably ribbed for strength (oo-er) so could you just spot/plug weld a couple of strips of steel on top of the panel once shaped?
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Jul 11, 2020 21:05:25 GMT
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I would as you suggest use a flat panel but also go up a gauge or 2 to compensate for losing the ribs.
If you want to make them I would form full length corrugations which should be easy enough especialy if you have access to a folder then cut the ends off and weld a flat piece on.
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Jul 12, 2020 10:31:05 GMT
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Ah - so the panels only £90 - I'm well aware that you are on on budget but even on my own stuff I still do the maths thing that I would do with a client's car only in a different manner - So on a clients car - I'm going to spend a morning attempting to fab a panel - then I have to fit it - make it look ok even though its hidden - net result = costs twice has much to do the inferior job than it does to just purchase the repair panel & weld it on On my own car - I'm going waste a load of time attempting to fab a panel up - materials of which will be say £10 - so £80 difference but I still have a mountain to climb with the car in the respect of how much work there is left to do - spending £80 will give me half a day that I can put into the car elsewhere or it will give half a day off from the car to do other things - is half a day worth the £80 spent - well in my world that tends to revolve at twice the speed than it does for the majority of others its £80 very wisely spent |
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Jul 12, 2020 12:00:36 GMT
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I know it would be more sensible to buy the panel but there are two problems, firstly SWMBO has put a total ban on spending any more money on the car fullstop until we can resell the house and move and while I might be able to get a few things by fluttering my eyelashes the reality is that I need to save those moments up for things I really need.
Secondly I can't find a supplier with this panel in stock so even if I could buy one I would have to wait for it for who knows how long.
I'm going to have go at making at on a nothing ventured nothing gained basis and see how it looks.
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Jul 12, 2020 13:46:50 GMT
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I've made a former out of a piece of plywood and some oak lipping and have made the first flute, it looks ok and with a bit more work it will probably be passable but i'm going to make the second one before messing around with the first one to make sure it looks ok and they are reasonably parallel, I initally tried using a hardwood block as Grumpynortherner suggest but there was no way the steel was having any of it even if with a lump hammer. I resorted to a spad chisel and hammers of various sizes to get it to move.
I think I should probably use thinner steel for it as all I have is 1mm which is possibly a bit thicker than the original panel.
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Jul 12, 2020 17:40:24 GMT
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Your making good progress, with the metal forming I use a selection of nylon bar off cuts with shaped ends, it doesn't mark the metal as much when your forming like metal tools do
Ive also found Zintec coated steel seems to shape much nicer than plain sheet
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It does seem that these cars can rot anywhere and everywhere!
