Benmarina16v
Part of things
1974 2ltr 16 Valve Marina Coupe 200Bhp On The Way
Posts: 414
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Can anyoe help my stricken Ital estate?
I have just fitted a O series 2 ltr engnie and twin carbs to my streetsleeper estate. I get a good spark and fuel but no starting just popping out of the carbs. I have changed the starter, timing belt (and set timing), points, condensor and dizzy cap but to no avail. I was thinking fuel may be gone off???
The car was sat around in the unit for a while and strangely enough the old engine would'nt start either.......... HELP!
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'87 2.8 Ford Capri '74 2.0 16V Marina Coupe '72 1800TC Saloon '72 1800TC Coupe -------------------------------------------- www.morrismarina.net
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spitting from the carbs sounds like ignition timing to me.
I had a similar thing years ago when i fitted the dizzy drive on my Mini upside down
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Another Starting problemBenzBoy
@benzboy
Club Retro Rides Member 7
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Spitting back could be the ignition timing as Ministrone says, but I've experienced this on cars I've tried to start after being stood a while - especially if it's got beefier carbs on etc. In the end they've just fired up after hours of trying. If I were you I'd check for daft things like the ignition timing being 180 degrees out (easily done!) and after all that has been eliminated and it still does it, buy a few cans of cold start (or get some petrol straight into the inlet - nigh on impossible with sidedraught carbs like SU's!) and just keep trying. I sympathise with you - you spend ages building the thing, check and double check everything that could possibly be wrong, and it still won't fire! Frustrating. If you can get a spare battery I've found that helps - have one on charge whilst the other is on the car. There's nothing more irritating than the battery dying when you think you could be getting somewhere! If you do suspect the petrol to be off, you could always disconnect the hose from the tank to the pump, and run another hose from a fuel can into the pump with some fresh petrol in there.
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Benmarina16v
Part of things
1974 2ltr 16 Valve Marina Coupe 200Bhp On The Way
Posts: 414
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Thank you for everyones input! I think I have made the biggest boo boo known to the retro world.... The dizzy is set the wrong way around so that the engine in fireing at the wrong time! Trouble is with the O series it is an OHV and the drive for the dizzy is splined and can go in any way round so chances are it is more (or less) than 180 degrees out! I feel such a prat changing the thing and not setting it up right! I was too paranoid about the timing belt being out and/or snapping that I forgot about my brain. I shall try again tonight, It was only a quick build and bolt in job but It will be like a rocket once it's started!!... IF it don't start after that I will use the jerry can and feed the pump off that. THANK YOU!!!!!!
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'87 2.8 Ford Capri '74 2.0 16V Marina Coupe '72 1800TC Saloon '72 1800TC Coupe -------------------------------------------- www.morrismarina.net
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I once had to call the RAC out when I couldn't get my 72 VW Camper started after I'd been doing some work on it,.. I'd checked everything 5 or 6 times,.. turns out I'd put the dizzy leads on in the correct order,.. just 90 degrees out,.. Doh!,...
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Another Starting problemBenzBoy
@benzboy
Club Retro Rides Member 7
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Yeah I've done that before too! It is so easy to overlook, and of course it looks right until you get the manual out and start fiddling! Good luck with starting it! It's such a great feeling when it fires up! ;D
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Thank you for everyones input! I think I have made the biggest boo boo known to the retro world.... The dizzy is set the wrong way around so that the engine in fireing at the wrong time! Trouble is with the O series it is an OHV and the drive for the dizzy is splined and can go in any way round so chances are it is more (or less) than 180 degrees out! Been there, done that ;D
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Benmarina16v
Part of things
1974 2ltr 16 Valve Marina Coupe 200Bhp On The Way
Posts: 414
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Dec 13, 2004 13:24:48 GMT
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After a week of trying various different approaches I have drawn a blank!
The timing was all out on the dizzy (around the wrong way)
I have sprayed cold start into the carbs but it just pops!
The one interesting thing was that when the dizzy was in wrong the car was firing on the exhaust stroke and backfireing.... I switched it around and the car has a spark and fuel but still no broom broooom!
I'm thinking the mixture is too rich and not dense enough??? I dunno!!!!!
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'87 2.8 Ford Capri '74 2.0 16V Marina Coupe '72 1800TC Saloon '72 1800TC Coupe -------------------------------------------- www.morrismarina.net
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Dec 13, 2004 13:34:25 GMT
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what carbs are you using?
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Benmarina16v
Part of things
1974 2ltr 16 Valve Marina Coupe 200Bhp On The Way
Posts: 414
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Dec 13, 2004 13:41:06 GMT
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Twin HIF44E's with auto choke disconnected
Ben
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'87 2.8 Ford Capri '74 2.0 16V Marina Coupe '72 1800TC Saloon '72 1800TC Coupe -------------------------------------------- www.morrismarina.net
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Dec 13, 2004 14:00:05 GMT
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Mmmm this is a tough one
Is it possible that all this turning of the engine has put so much fuel in the cylinders that the bore walls have been washed of oil giving you low compression?
Are the plugs wet?
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Benmarina16v
Part of things
1974 2ltr 16 Valve Marina Coupe 200Bhp On The Way
Posts: 414
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Dec 13, 2004 14:14:56 GMT
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hummm.... interesting.. do continue....
yes the plugs are soaked
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'87 2.8 Ford Capri '74 2.0 16V Marina Coupe '72 1800TC Saloon '72 1800TC Coupe -------------------------------------------- www.morrismarina.net
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Dec 13, 2004 14:25:25 GMT
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This happened to my g/fs Audi a while ago. The auto selector wasnt fully in Neutral one morning and she kept turning and turning the engine over until the battery was flat
The piston rings require a covering of oil to give good compression. When the engine floods the oil gets washed away by the unburnt fuel.
Try taking the plugs out, drying them and dropping a little oil in the cylinders. (worth a try)
As i recall the HIF44 carb uses a separate jet for cold starting, have you disconnected this with the auto choke?
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Benmarina16v
Part of things
1974 2ltr 16 Valve Marina Coupe 200Bhp On The Way
Posts: 414
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Dec 13, 2004 14:40:34 GMT
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Thats the one thing I am unsure of. Really I want the autochoke off and I want a manual setup but I can't find much info on the web about the HIF SU's to do this.
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'87 2.8 Ford Capri '74 2.0 16V Marina Coupe '72 1800TC Saloon '72 1800TC Coupe -------------------------------------------- www.morrismarina.net
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Benmarina16v
Part of things
1974 2ltr 16 Valve Marina Coupe 200Bhp On The Way
Posts: 414
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Ok... I removed the spark plugs from the engine and added a little engine oil to each of the cylinders. I left it to sit a few minutes and then wizzed the starter over to clear it.
I replaced the spark plugs and put a charged up battery on the car and then attempted to turn the car over. This resulted in the starter turning very slowly if at al. I then disconnected the battery and attempted to turn the engine by hand and the thing was so heavy (as though there was too much compression.... I replaced the starter on sunday because I burnt the old one out... But the engine was turning nicely before i put oil into the chambers.....
I think I need to sit down in a darkened room and rock slowly back and forth.......
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'87 2.8 Ford Capri '74 2.0 16V Marina Coupe '72 1800TC Saloon '72 1800TC Coupe -------------------------------------------- www.morrismarina.net
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Another Starting problemBenzBoy
@benzboy
Club Retro Rides Member 7
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Dec 14, 2004 14:01:36 GMT
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Gawd this is turning into a bit of a tricky one! I wouldn't have thought there'd be too much compression - if the piston rings are sealing then the compression is governed by the length of the conrods (unless there is oil pooled in the bores from pouring too much in... that may cause a few probs) I'm at a bit of a loss as to what to suggest...
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Dec 14, 2004 14:08:09 GMT
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Yes ive got to agree, there'd have to be a lot of oil in the bores to cause that much resistance.
The only other thing I can think of that would cause excess compression is a build up of pressure in the crankcase. This doesn't seem likely though as I presume that its ventilated.
I'm head scratching as I type.
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Benmarina16v
Part of things
1974 2ltr 16 Valve Marina Coupe 200Bhp On The Way
Posts: 414
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Dec 14, 2004 16:05:17 GMT
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IT STARTED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Turned out I was looking at the wrong timing settings. You see the O series engine was built in two forms: 1700cc and 2000cc. I was setting the dizzy at 8 degrees before top dead centre and it should have been 16!!!!!!!!! I only found out when I was reading some old car data sheets for the Austin Ambassador 2000. What a prat I was!
Big Thanks to all those that assisted! The reason the starter was not pulling the car over was due to a faulty ballest resistor! Took that off and VROOOOM!
Now I have to set the carbs up cold... Anyone know how to do this? and fix the exaust system on... It is LOUD...very very LOUD!
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Big smiles all around! If I could send a pint of bear through Email I would to all you guys!!!!!
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'87 2.8 Ford Capri '74 2.0 16V Marina Coupe '72 1800TC Saloon '72 1800TC Coupe -------------------------------------------- www.morrismarina.net
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Dec 14, 2004 18:17:19 GMT
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spitting from the carbs sounds like ignition timing to me. Cough cough!!! I'm drinking my imaginary beer now ;D Glad you've got it started though, ive been racking my brains. If you want to set the carbs up properly you'll need a colourtune kit if its just to get you to a tuner, get the engine running and adjust the idle speed till it stays running.
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Another Starting problemBenzBoy
@benzboy
Club Retro Rides Member 7
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Dec 14, 2004 18:34:02 GMT
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Waheyyy!!! Great news! ;D Not very clued up on SU's so I can't really be of much assistance there. I was beginning to think something major might be wrong with the engine, but fortunately it wasn't! ;D
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