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"The vacuum pulls oil past the rings just as readily?" Not really. The rings have a pre load seal against the cylinders, and the oil control ring is supposed to let a metered amount of oil go by. If the rings are bad, it will smoke al the time ( and specially when under power ) ( not trying to start an argument either, its just how it was explained to me by old school car guys. And my own experience of breaking engines in various interesting ways...  ) |
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vitesseefi , thinking about it some more.. Your test does exactly the same as mine, but at a lower press/vac differences...
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jimi
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,198 
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Oil pools on top of the head (in the valve spring area) and drains back to the sump, so easily pulled into the cylinders past worn valve stems seals, oil in the cylinders below the piston drains directly back to the sump so is not really present in any quantity to be drawn by any over-run vacuum back into the combustion area. Thats the way it was explained to me many moons ago I seem to remember earlier in the thread they did compression checks and they were ok ? |
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Last Edit: Jul 5, 2021 21:05:47 GMT by jimi
Black is not a colour ! .... Its the absence of colour
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bstardchild
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,965
Club RR Member Number: 71
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1965 Clark Cortez bstardchild
@bstardchild
Club Retro Rides Member 71
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I find those sump and pick up pictures concerning but I think you've dodged a bullet catching it just in time
I was always under the impression that US owners were a bit more oil change obsessed but I guess that probably doesn't always apply to recreational vehicles that get infrequent use.
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bstardchild
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,965
Club RR Member Number: 71
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1965 Clark Cortez bstardchild
@bstardchild
Club Retro Rides Member 71
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"The vacuum pulls oil past the rings just as readily?" Not really. The rings have a pre load seal against the cylinders, and the oil control ring is supposed to let a metered amount of oil go by. If the rings are bad, it will smoke al the time ( and specially when under power ) ( not trying to start an argument either, its just how it was explained to me by old school car guys. And my own experience of breaking engines in various interesting ways... ) Pretty much my experience Smoke on over run is normally valve stem seals Smoke on acceleration is normally rings If there is a significant difference between dry and wet compression tests it's normally rings/pistons/rebore that improves it |
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Agreed, that's pretty normal for cheap non-detergent oil.
Clean it out, run some diesel oil in it for a while with routine changes and it'll be fine.
Tractor Supply sell nice cheap diesel oil that's fine for it.
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Tractor Supply sell nice cheap diesel oil that's fine for it. I'm assuming it's not super universal tractor oil you mean is it Phil? |
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I'm assuming it's not super universal tractor oil you mean is it Phil? No, it's a nice 30W high detergent diesel engine oil that's pretty cheap by volume, good for a rapid number of flushes. |
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LAndy
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,061
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Jul 12, 2021 15:33:25 GMT
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WOW !! That sump was grim. It sure was! Not pleasant but I've seen worse Rover v8's, most older engines were designed for ZDP, you might find one of the donut type coolers that goes under the filter works better and avoids most of the plumbing and thermostats. It's what Transits and Sprinters use. Our new oil to go in has additional Zinc in it so should be alot better for our engine. I'd love to fit an oil cooler eventually but there is no room to fit a donut oil cooler as our setup currently is, in fact we're using a shorter oil filter to fit between the engine and front cradle. In my view, a sump is only really grim when it's got bits of metal amongst the slime. No metal, you caught it in time. Shrapnel present.... too late. Hole in sump/block.... waaay too late! I guess I'd agree with that. We had a good poke around in the grime and there was little to no metal bits in it. I just think with the engine having sat for so long the old oil kinda just set (for want of a better word). Hole in the block would certainly ruin our day! I find those sump and pick up pictures concerning but I think you've dodged a bullet catching it just in time I was always under the impression that US owners were a bit more oil change obsessed but I guess that probably doesn't always apply to recreational vehicles that get infrequent use. I think you're right. From owning far less old vehicles in the past and seeing the state of their pickups I knew the 360's would need changing, I wasn't prepared for it to be as nasty as it was though. And you're generally correct about oil changes. I own a mk6 Golf R and I'm always seeing people have their oil changed at like 3k intervals, honestly I find it quite ridiculous. Agreed, that's pretty normal for cheap non-detergent oil. Clean it out, run some diesel oil in it for a while with routine changes and it'll be fine. Tractor Supply sell nice cheap diesel oil that's fine for it. Thanks Phil, we've since thrown it back together with a new oil filter and thrown some half decent oil in it for now. - Thank you metalshapes, jimi and vitesseefi for your input on the stem seal / rings debate. I really appreciate your input! Andy (and L) |
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Previous retros: 92 AX GTi 92 Scirocco Scala 94 80 sport 87 Golf Cab GTi Current retro: 1965 Clark Cortez YouTube Website Instagram |
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LAndy
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,061
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Jul 12, 2021 17:02:16 GMT
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Second post today. Another update on our Cortez! So, on Saturday we had a couple of hours working on our sump and oil pump. Old vs. New.   (For $40 it wasn't worth not fitting a new pump) Correct sump gasket.  Our oil (with extra zinc). Now "Racing" might be a bit much but a lot of people recommended this for our engine so we'll give it a shot.  Somehow we managed to not take a photo of our nicely cleaned sump! Installation went pretty smoothly, though the new sump gasket made things a little snug. Our only issue (besides not owning a small enough torque wrench) was that 2 of the bolts for the sump started cross threading - As soon as I felt them go tight I took them out and I'm now looking for a correct sized thread chasing tap to hopefully save it. Fortunately the gasket sealed the sump to the block. With the oil in we fired up the engine and it sounded pretty good, the oil pressure gauge went up so the pump is working too. We've still got an occasional misfire on the right bank which we've got to diagnose, and we've also got a slight leak on the fuel line into the pump. This is an old fuel line and I'm positive it's collapsing so will be replaced asap. I also think our rear brakes are binding in reverse so that needs looking at too! I know some of you enjoy sharing the odd scenic pictures so I thought I'd join in, this was taken from the summit of Big House mountain in Virginia and was a beautiful end to the our hike on an over-nighter we did recently. We ate hot dogs and pasta while the stars came out, there was no moon so we saw so many stars and even the ISS which I always love seeing.  Andy (and L) |
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Last Edit: Jul 12, 2021 17:08:07 GMT by LAndy
Previous retros: 92 AX GTi 92 Scirocco Scala 94 80 sport 87 Golf Cab GTi Current retro: 1965 Clark Cortez YouTube Website Instagram |
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LAndy
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,061
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Jul 12, 2021 17:06:34 GMT
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Also, my phone too this image of the plough / saucepan / big dipper / Ursa Major. I was pretty impressed for a camera phone!  |
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Previous retros: 92 AX GTi 92 Scirocco Scala 94 80 sport 87 Golf Cab GTi Current retro: 1965 Clark Cortez YouTube Website Instagram |
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jimi
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,198
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Jul 12, 2021 20:08:23 GMT
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Thank you metalshapes, jimi and vitesseefi for your input on the stem seal / rings debate. I really appreciate your input! Andy (and L) No problem  Both photographs are ace  |
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Black is not a colour ! .... Its the absence of colour
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Jul 12, 2021 22:13:38 GMT
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VR1 will hold an engine together long after it would have fallen apart with any other oil. I would have used it after doing a thousand miles or so with some cheap detergent oil in it to shift any lingering debris though.
Will the studs not just restart and go in straight rather than need a tap running through them?
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bstardchild
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,965
Club RR Member Number: 71
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1965 Clark Cortez bstardchild
@bstardchild
Club Retro Rides Member 71
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Jul 12, 2021 23:07:48 GMT
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I find those sump and pick up pictures concerning but I think you've dodged a bullet catching it just in time I was always under the impression that US owners were a bit more oil change obsessed but I guess that probably doesn't always apply to recreational vehicles that get infrequent use. I think you're right. From owning far less old vehicles in the past and seeing the state of their pickups I knew the 360's would need changing, I wasn't prepared for it to be as nasty as it was though. And you're generally correct about oil changes. I own a mk6 Golf R and I'm always seeing people have their oil changed at like 3k intervals, honestly I find it quite ridiculous. Many years ago on another forum I shared some pictures of a Senator 3.0 24V engine in a car I bought - it's service history was best described as patchy and it wasn't that high a mileage ~70K It had a leaking rocker cover gasket and really noisy lifters so I'd pulled the cover off and what I saw wasn't pretty - everything was caked in burnt on carbon - I've never been a huge fan of flushing oils so I fitted a new rocker cover gasket and then drove it around and changed the oil frequently every 1500 miles initially from memory with some very cheap oil every time - I did that for the first 6000 miles before reverting to my normal 6K intervals - even the lifters stopped rattling  When the head gasket blew at around 100K as they all did - I pulled the head off and was really happy with the condition - it was much cleaner with very little carbon anywhere. I think frequent oil changes are a less aggressive process than engine flushing fluids that in my experience can have very bad results on older engines If I'd known about the diesel engine oil trick I'd have probably done that |
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LAndy
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,061
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Jul 13, 2021 20:49:57 GMT
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VR1 will hold an engine together long after it would have fallen apart with any other oil. I would have used it after doing a thousand miles or so with some cheap detergent oil in it to shift any lingering debris though. Will the studs not just restart and go in straight rather than need a tap running through them? The problem is it'll be months before we'll get anywhere close to putting 100 miles on it, never mind 1000. When we're ready to set off on our travels properly we'll do another change for good measure. Honestly, I didn't want to even attempt pushing the bolts more as they got pretty tight very quickly. I think you're right. From owning far less old vehicles in the past and seeing the state of their pickups I knew the 360's would need changing, I wasn't prepared for it to be as nasty as it was though. And you're generally correct about oil changes. I own a mk6 Golf R and I'm always seeing people have their oil changed at like 3k intervals, honestly I find it quite ridiculous. Many years ago on another forum I shared some pictures of a Senator 3.0 24V engine in a car I bought - it's service history was best described as patchy and it wasn't that high a mileage ~70K It had a leaking rocker cover gasket and really noisy lifters so I'd pulled the cover off and what I saw wasn't pretty - everything was caked in burnt on carbon - I've never been a huge fan of flushing oils so I fitted a new rocker cover gasket and then drove it around and changed the oil frequently every 1500 miles initially from memory with some very cheap oil every time - I did that for the first 6000 miles before reverting to my normal 6K intervals - even the lifters stopped rattling When the head gasket blew at around 100K as they all did - I pulled the head off and was really happy with the condition - it was much cleaner with very little carbon anywhere. I think frequent oil changes are a less aggressive process than engine flushing fluids that in my experience can have very bad results on older engines If I'd known about the diesel engine oil trick I'd have probably done that I didn't run a can of engine flush through this from the recommendations of several people on here (there were a few for it, and I do run a can through my Golf every oil change too). I think when we're properly mobile I'll do something similar and drop the oil a good few times in the first 5000 miles. I didn't know about the diesel oil either but we needed to get the Cortez moving again so we stuck in what we had - The VR1. |
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Last Edit: Jul 13, 2021 20:53:10 GMT by LAndy
Previous retros: 92 AX GTi 92 Scirocco Scala 94 80 sport 87 Golf Cab GTi Current retro: 1965 Clark Cortez YouTube Website Instagram |
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LAndy
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,061
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Jul 26, 2021 16:45:20 GMT
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How do! Had the usual case of one step forward, two steps back with the Cortez this weekend. On Saturday we visited with a short list of small jobs. 1. Replace a knackered fuel line (from hard line to fuel pump on engine) 2. Fit a new washer to the sump plug as annoyingly the newly fitted one was causing a leak (actually it wasn't... But I'll get to that) 3. Check that we'd torqued the spark plugs in after messing with them last time (we weren't sure we'd done it) L was worn out before we'd even started!  Or maybe she's thoroughly examining the new fuel line?? This allowed me to crack on with jobs 1 and 2. Old fuel line removed.  New one cut to length, and protected with a bit of heat wrap as it's kinda close to one of the exhaust pipes.  Done! However, I noticed this!  I later checked (on the Sunday) and it is blowing around the gasket. I did tighten up the two bolts but if anything it made it leak worse. A new exhaust is on the list anyway - I may just bung some exhaust paste round it in the mean time to tide us over, and not gas us while we're inside the Cortez. (L was still asleep by the way!) Job two, dropped the oil, removed the plug and while removing it I thought something felt off. It was like the plug was a bit loose. So I checked our past purchases and noticed that we'd bought an M12x1.25 sump plug - Now why would a 60 year old American RV have a metric plug you ask? Funny that! I asked the same thing. A bit of digging and we realized it needed to be a 1/2"-20 (Obviously!) - We're still not sure what happened (maybe I just picked up the wrong item) or why it didn't leak before but we added it to the list of things to buy on the way home. Job 3, check the spark plugs. They were all tight to spec. So we headed home, some of us more refreshed than others! On Sunday we headed back to the RV to install a new, and correct sump plug (purchased from a well known auto store that appears to not be able to help you unless you give them EVERY detail of your vehicle. I love telling them that our Cortez isn't in their system, "no, no it will be. Every vehicle is in our system" they say. So I say "okay, it's a Clark Cortez"... They about get to C-L-A before their screen goes blank and a look of panic appears on their face) and to install our new speedometer cable. We were greeted with this...  She did a little wee! Not sure when or why this started but a small leak had started on the bottom hose of the radiator, I tightened everything up (though it wasn't exactly loose) and it stopped the leak. New sump plug installed, oil chucked back in and no more leaks from the sump! Yay! Now our new speedo cable -- Because the Cortez is a bit of an odd duck somethings aren't readily available. Like a 10ft long speedo cable with one end having a .155" square drive and the other end having a .104" square drive. Fortunately we found a company who could make us one and we set about installing it.   Installation was pretty easy but after a first test drive we still didn't have a working speedo. I disconnected the end from the transmission and clamped it in my drill and gave it a quick whizz up! L excitedly screaming from the drivers seat confirmed that our Cortez was going over 90mph! I hooked it back up to the transmission end again making sure I'd got the drive key properly seated and a second test drive confirmed we're all good! We checked the speed against Google maps and we were about 1mph off at 15mph on the Cortez speedo.   Our final surprise of the day came during our final return drive after checking the speedo. I wanted to check that our little leak from earlier hadn't returned. The good news was that it hadn't. The bad news was that our coolant was literally pouring out of our bottom drain on the radiator! Engine quickly turned off! The coolant was too hot to get hold of the tap to close it and all of our tools were at the opposite side of the farm, after running 10 miles on Saturday (I'm training for my first marathon) I wasn't in the condition for running far but I ran as fast as I could to get a set of pliers to close the tap. Upon returned we got the tap closed and pondered how this could have happened - We didn't hit anything, we hadn't messed with the drain tap and it wasn't leaking earlier in the day! For now, we'll keep an eye on it! This has however prompted us to get the remaining gauges all working on the dashboard (currently only the amps works reliably). We filled up the radiator best we could with some distilled water we actually had and got the Cortez back to its barn. We tidied up and headed home, sweaty, dirty, tired and some of us smelling of coolant. Out. |
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Last Edit: Jul 26, 2021 17:29:07 GMT by LAndy
Previous retros: 92 AX GTi 92 Scirocco Scala 94 80 sport 87 Golf Cab GTi Current retro: 1965 Clark Cortez YouTube Website Instagram |
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LAndy
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,061
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More progress, kinda. One job we've known we needed to do FOR AGES but have avoided for what will become obvious reasons! The job: Upper ball joint on the front passenger side. One thing I should mention here, because honeslty I'm still quite upset about it. The ball joint -- which I purchased ages ago, see below cost $175!! FOR A BALL JOINT!? SERIOUSLY! Oh my word I nearly died when buying it! From the same store it's now $310.  So, as usual yesterday you could find us here.  Progress was initally good, everything came undone what was meant to and as we took the tension out of our torsion bar things were looking great. That's when things got harder - as they usually do when it comes to changing a ball joint, especially when it comes to changing a ball joint that's potenitally 56 years old! Armed with a splitter and a hammer and a bucket load of determination we set about beating the bizzel out of the Cortez!   Hours later, gallons of sweat later... Guess what?  It was still in place all be it a little more broken than when we started! So, we admitted defeat... For now.  Though we have a plan to purchase a better splitter (the one with the bolt) and return to finish the job. In the meantime we've left the Cortez to think about her actions.  Only 94,567 jobs left to do! Andy and L |
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Last Edit: Aug 1, 2021 15:30:43 GMT by LAndy
Previous retros: 92 AX GTi 92 Scirocco Scala 94 80 sport 87 Golf Cab GTi Current retro: 1965 Clark Cortez YouTube Website Instagram |
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LAndy
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,061
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Our latest video is also out, if you've got some time we'd love it if you checked it and if you enjoy it please give it a thumbs up!
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Previous retros: 92 AX GTi 92 Scirocco Scala 94 80 sport 87 Golf Cab GTi Current retro: 1965 Clark Cortez YouTube Website Instagram |
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Isn't suspension fun? What's the ball joint listed as fitting?
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LAndy
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,061
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Isn't suspension fun? What's the ball joint listed as fitting? According to AutoZone or O'Reillys it's for an International Pickup (A - C) or Travelall. |
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Previous retros: 92 AX GTi 92 Scirocco Scala 94 80 sport 87 Golf Cab GTi Current retro: 1965 Clark Cortez YouTube Website Instagram |
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