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Nov 10, 2019 20:44:38 GMT
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Hi all,
I have the potential opportunity to get hold of a 2.5D 190 in auto form.
Years ago I had a 1.8 190e auto and loved it in all capacities, however, having never driven a diesel version yet alone lived with one I was hoping for some opinion.
It will be my daily, doing around 50 miles a day on an A road and the odd pootle at the weekends. Any info regarding mpg I can find seems to vary from the next but I am hoping for high 40s... optimistic? I'm planning on maxing SVO within the tolerance of it working too.
Anything that can convince me to keep my warm, solid, economical, cheap to live with BMW 118d would be good to hear. Cheers!
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Not much help, but my dad has run mercs in various guises for years, including a 190e 1.8, and won’t drive anything else. Well he will, but you should hear the complaining when he does! No use at all really, but welcome to the forum😃
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High 40s might be a tad optimistic...They are great cars. I have a w123 and a w210. You will see high 40s with an 0m605 turbo diesel swap. also a lot more power, still able to run on svo as well.
I run my om606 engined w210 that has a few good mods on SVO and it couldn't be happier on it. Runs silky smooth
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,194
Club RR Member Number: 170
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A 190D Auto should be OK. I've had similar cars including a: -1991 W124 300D Auto -1991 W124 250D Manual -1995 S124 E320 5 Speed Auto. The 250D is the same engine as what the 190D 2.5s had, the OM602. The 300D auto does shift well, but it is not quick by any standards; I wouldn't say it's dangerous as it can leave junctions from a standstill well enough. If you want to overtake anything, forget it. They do just waft along however with the feeling of unburstable grace. Mid 30s MPG is normal from one of those, which can make the petrol engined cars like the 230E a cheaper and a better bet to buy as they do the same MPG on petrol and with more pace in the mix, albeit without the 6 pot sound . The 250D Autos I am told are meant to be a bit too slow and lethargic in traffic, at least in W124 form which I can believe after driving the two diesels I have owned ; I can ask my friend about the 190D 2.5 Auto but I suspect it will be the same answer. With the manual however, they are surprisingly sprightly. They shift better than they have any right to and really get down the road. Make no mistake, overtaking is still a struggle in one, albeit slightly less. But they do feel a little quicker than a 300D Auto I'd say in manual form. I was also getting 45MPG from mine once I fixed alot of issues, main ones being fuel leaks around the fuel heat exchanger, some decent tyres and getting new brake calipers ; the rears seize more than people think. If it were me, I'd consider the following in the 190/W124 forms from a pace/bang per buck perspective. -190E -190E 2.0 -190E 2.6 if you don't mind the fuel -190D 2.5 Manual -W124 230E Auto -W124 220E/E220 Auto (M114 engine) -W124 250D/E250 Diesel Manual. -W124 300D Auto or Manual The only thing I'd say about the M114 engine is to ensure it has evidence of having a replacement engine wiring harness, and not a repaired one ; the problem will just come back elsewhere no matter what anyone says ; It almost cost a friend his relationship. If it's not been done, budget for a new harness @£400-600 to buy the harness. The E250 Diesels came with the OM605 non-turbo, which shifts well. If you want something a little newer, and a car that I know is really nice, I know of a lovely 1995 W202 C250 Turbo Diesel for sale. With a turbo, and a 5 speed auto, it will give you the economy of a 190E 250D Auto, and the car I know of is a very clean car. I can pass your details on if you wish. I'll not lie, I'm semi-tempted and I'm not a fan of 190E/C Classes from the earlier years!
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Last Edit: Nov 11, 2019 9:57:05 GMT by ChasR
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Nov 11, 2019 18:21:47 GMT
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do it, do it now
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loudsam
Part of things
Posts: 50
Club RR Member Number: 138
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Nov 11, 2019 18:44:26 GMT
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I had and technically still have a 190D 2.5d Manual and I was getting about 35-45mpg with the om602 engine are a good engine built proof but not the best for mpg. Now my 190 has a om605 engine in from a c250td w202 and I’m getting 40mpg easy and it has 407hp and I can boot around and it doesn’t feel like it uses fuel like the om602 did easy 40-50mpg cruising around with the om605. But I will say the best car I have is the 190 I love it. it’s a nice relaxing easy car to drive long journeys feel like nothing probably the best car to buy a good old Mercedes.
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Roach
Part of things
Posts: 717
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Nov 11, 2019 18:46:21 GMT
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I’ve got the 2.0 diesel 190 as a daily.
I absolutely love it, dog slow, but astonishingly good on fuel... I’ll struggle to own anything other than a merc after having this.
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brc76
RR Helper
Posts: 1,107
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Nov 11, 2019 20:05:10 GMT
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I’ve got the 2.0 diesel 190 as a daily. I absolutely love it, dog slow, but astonishingly good on fuel... I’ll struggle to own anything other than a merc after having this. I had a 2.0d with a 5 speed for a couple of years as my daily. It had a feeling of invincibility, was slow, but would do 100 on the m4 eventually. I loved it, but couldn't imagine it as an auto....
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madmog
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 1,155
Club RR Member Number: 46
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Nov 11, 2019 20:06:41 GMT
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Why not get the 190 diesel and see how you get on with it? Don't sell the BMW in the meantime.
If you don't like the Merc at all sell it on (on here even) as you still have your BMW backup.
If you do like it, you win.
If you do like it but want more bhp/mpg you can plan to find an OM605 or OM606 diesel engine to transplant and while it's off the road as a project you still have your BMW.
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Roach
Part of things
Posts: 717
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Nov 11, 2019 20:50:11 GMT
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I’ve got the 2.0 diesel 190 as a daily. I absolutely love it, dog slow, but astonishingly good on fuel... I’ll struggle to own anything other than a merc after having this. I had a 2.0d with a 5 speed for a couple of years as my daily. It had a feeling of invincibility, was slow, but would do 100 on the m4 eventually. I loved it, but couldn't imagine it as an auto.... Yeah mines manual, it’d be hateful in auto form I’d imagine... and that’s coming from someone who loves autos. My W114 is auto, couldn’t imagine that as a manual, it’d be rubbish.
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brc76
RR Helper
Posts: 1,107
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Nov 11, 2019 21:13:59 GMT
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I had a 2.0d with a 5 speed for a couple of years as my daily. It had a feeling of invincibility, was slow, but would do 100 on the m4 eventually. I loved it, but couldn't imagine it as an auto.... Yeah mines manual, it’d be hateful in auto form I’d imagine... and that’s coming from someone who loves autos. My W114 is auto, couldn’t imagine that as a manual, it’d be rubbish. Haha, my w114 280ce was an auto. I never thought about it, but also couldn't imagine it as a manual either! Some cars just don't work one way or the other I guess.
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madmog
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 1,155
Club RR Member Number: 46
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Nov 11, 2019 21:34:54 GMT
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Yeah mines manual, it’d be hateful in auto form I’d imagine... and that’s coming from someone who loves autos. My W114 is auto, couldn’t imagine that as a manual, it’d be rubbish. Haha, my w114 280ce was an auto. I never thought about it, but also couldn't imagine it as a manual either! Some cars just don't work one way or the other I guess. My W114 is a manual, manual column shift, it's part of the charm for me. Apart from the German /8 forum, I think most of the W114/W115s in this country must be on this forum.
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Last Edit: Nov 11, 2019 21:36:39 GMT by madmog
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,194
Club RR Member Number: 170
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Nov 11, 2019 21:35:03 GMT
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Indeed! I couldn't really see my old E320 as a manual. They did do them but as a dog-leg. I know of someone who sold theirs due to that. With the 5 speed, it was a lovely drive .
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Nov 11, 2019 22:36:58 GMT
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Years ago I had a 1.8 190e auto and loved it in all capacities, If you're really hung up about mpg, get the diesel. But the far nicer car's are petrol. 2.0 auto or better again the 2.6 auto. From memory about 30 average from the 2.0 and 27 mpg for the 2.6. One big advantage about the 2.0, is there's always more of those for sale than any other 190, so there's a far better choice. I reckon you'll have a more limited amount of 2.5D's to choose from. A nice 118D (that odds on is going to become expensive to maintain) or a lovely old 190E? I'd prefer to have several grand wrapped up in an old Merc being candid. I know, that's probably no real help.
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Still learning...still spending...still breaking things!
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brc76
RR Helper
Posts: 1,107
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If it helps, think about how you prefer to drive? I'd go 190e but I can see why you wouldn't too.
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,194
Club RR Member Number: 170
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Nov 12, 2019 12:31:26 GMT
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It depends on the 118D. The M47 is a very solid unit and the E87s are a nice chassis.
If it’s an N47 engined car, then I’d be tempted to sell unless the service history was better than what the factory schedules are; the timing chain issues on those are known.
Any old Merc will have rot issues potentially and even the OM60x engines are not quite as bulletproof as the internet would have you think. Google head cracking and vacuum pump failure for the Merc diesels and you’ll see what I mean. It’s not common but it a not unheard of either.
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Nov 12, 2019 14:44:07 GMT
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Thanks for all of the replies everyone - Much appreciated.
Lots to consider but upon reflection maybe the diesel isn't the best option, especially if the MPG isn't markedly better than the petrol.
My memories of the petrol 190e I had are so fond, perhaps I am risking a bit of disappointment and heartache in going for the diesel version! As I don't have the luxury of buying without selling my existing car, I don't have much scope for a trial to see if I can hack it for my daily half hour each way commute.
Obviously the BMW I drive now is massively different from the Merc - notably a hell of a lot faster if nothing else! and I think that by going for the 190D, I may be giving up a lot for something that isn't that fun to drive, isn't that great on fuel and only really has its looks going for it!
Back to the drawing board in the hunt for the perfect good MPG, good looking, fun to drive £2k retro daily...Any suggestions?!
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Roach
Part of things
Posts: 717
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Nov 13, 2019 18:34:28 GMT
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Don’t buy anything else, here’s some inspiration for you.... you know you want one.
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Nov 13, 2019 20:17:12 GMT
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Don’t buy anything else, here’s some inspiration for you.... you know you want one. That is not fair! Arrrgghhh
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Nov 13, 2019 22:00:59 GMT
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We have had 2 of them spanning 7years, absolutely superb cars, and by far the best cars I’ve owned. The first, a silver grey 2.5d auto that had 300,000 miles on it, and the second a 170,000 miles. The second bought to replace the grey simply because it was newer with lower mileage and it was almost mint. The G plate strangely was just far better than the later white one. Fuel consumption was 35-40 mpg so not amazing, but remember these I’ll run on veg oil with no modifications whatsoever.....and that can make cheap miles! Both would happily sit on the motorway flat out at 95-100, and feel rock solid and give you the feeling that it would actually go on forever.....and beyond that. The OM602 is bull it proof..........but it’s not fast. In fact the reason we sold the second is we live in a rural area and it’s total inability to safely overtake anything unless it’s a cyclist or a tortoise. They pull off ok up to 30/40 and from then on it’s all about getting momentum. Again, on the motorway if you came off the gas and hit a hill......forget it. Tuck in behind a truck in the left lane, wait for a downhill bit and go........and keep it there!! We now have a Volvo 850 T5 estate. It uses exactly twice as much fuel, it can overtake, it’s good, but it’s not a patch on the joy of the 190. It was solid
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