braaap
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,592
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May 23, 2019 12:05:22 GMT
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Actually, that red Merc would possibly comply with 1003/2010 (EU legislation on wheelguards) as the wheelguard only has to be wider than the tyre 50 degrees rearward of the wheel centre and the back of the wheelguard only has to cover the centreline of the tyre at 150mm above the wheel centre. - though there are plenty of cars on RR over the years which may not have respected them... Maybe it does comply, but even if it does the fuzz might still pull him because of the cut bumper. Since norfolkshire mentioned the insurances: here in Germany almost* every alteration of your car has to be reviewed by some authorized expert of the big engineering companies like TÜV, Dekra and several smaller ones. In most* cases the changes have to be documented in a certificate. Afterwards you need to have your car documents completed. Otherwise the so called ABE (= type approval) is invalid and you do no longer have insurance coverage, driving without is in fact a crime. *Of course there are exceptions,but this would lead too far here.
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Last Edit: May 23, 2019 12:07:27 GMT by braaap
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May 23, 2019 14:07:36 GMT
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I suspect the main difference between the two is the owners attitude, I would wager that most cars driven to RR Weekender that look like those ^ were not driven at those heights...... That goes a long way yeah. The white Beemer is the closest to the Merc for sure, however it does appear to have intact scrub lines, the plastic bumper and side skirts make it look like it is sitting lower than it actually is. Worth pointing out here that the red E36 is static, so that is its height, there is no consideration for it going lower if a bag bursts, which is (as I understand it) one of the main complaints against the UK cars in Germany.
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May 23, 2019 14:22:10 GMT
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That Merc ain’t low 😀😉
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Last Edit: May 23, 2019 14:23:59 GMT by rattlecan
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May 23, 2019 14:32:37 GMT
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Seems he has a problem with upsetting the law in this country too 🙏🏻HERO🙏🏻
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May 23, 2019 17:04:09 GMT
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That Merc ain’t low 😀😉 I don't even care if thats legal or not, or retro or not, its still awesome (if it arrived on a trailer if required)
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AB car pix
Posted a lot
Car mag' snapper
Posts: 1,337
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May 31, 2019 17:49:51 GMT
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My main issue is that it shows up just how much of a cheat most people use air ride as! They look great airred out.... but so few modify them to be able to drive like this, or even close to this. So the cars are driven stupidly high, which usually makes some god awful pokey wheel situation happen and my eyes bleed.
Air to get over obstacles, yes. Air to hard park and drive like a gimp? No.
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1979 Chrysler Horizon 1.3 GL 1980 Ford Granada 2.8 Ghia 1985 Ford Sierra 3dr 1985 Ford Escort Mk3 1988 Ford Sierra Sapphire Cosworth 1989 Ford Escort 1.3 Popular 1995 Volvo 960 1996 BMW 525i 1998 BMW 323i 1999 BMW 530d 2003 BMW 530i . www.facebook.com/ABCARPIX
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Morning all. You've all seen the crack, so maybe it'd be good to hear from one of the people who got impounded right? First off, a few things to note, seeing as a lot of people have gone off spouting information which is either completely false or made up. The go fund me was not set up by any of us. Someone just simply saw the situation and decided to help... We weren't racing, nor were we driving aggressively in any fashion at all. I don't like driving abroad as it is, so i don't push it. Don't know where the whole malarkey of asking for sympathy came from, it happened, we dealt with it. End of. Was i aware my car was quite evidently risky? Completely. Had i accounted for potentially getting fined in Austria? Yes. Is my car legit? (I.E MOT) Yes. My cars not bodged, i spent 6 solid weeks getting the car built up with this trip in mind. Would it be ok every day (I daily this car) on normal wheels? Yes. I've driven this car in a similar state in the UK daily for on and off 5 years, and never been pulled once. I've had more police tell me my cars cool and have a chat with me about it, rather than getting spanked. Did we expect to stop for food at a services, to be carless 6 hours later dumped at the side of the road, with absolutely no sleeping arrangements, no transport, no information on where the cars were going, no help with finding accommodation, and no contact numbers? No. We were literally told "thats your problem now" and left. Not really a fair situation is it? Considering we were all simply passing, had all offered to rectify our cars at the side of the road, basically tried everything we could to get out the situation. Their Country, their rules. We were kindly informed that had there been less of us, we'd of been let off. 3 friends stopped at the exact same services, in full view of the police the following day, in cars just as risky, and were left alone. You tell me if that's fair? Our cars are clearly modified, some more than others. We all fully knew the risks, and unfortunately it back fired. I went to Austria last year, i went in a 5 car convoy with cars far far more extreme that what you saw in our convoy this year, and we had no issues at all. Simply wrong place wrong time, one of them. I'm not one to dwell on stuff, you just have to take it as it comes and deal with it. You saw we got hire cars, and thankfully we still got to enjoy 5 days in Austria Albeit, a bit sad not being able to park my car in front of some amazing mountains. Getting the cars back cost us all 900 Euro's, with the crime costing 80. The rest was on testing and transport. So realistically, we could've just been fined 80 euro's on the spot and told to leave. Spending 820 euro's on a test to tell me i've got a bulb out of line (front end has been tampered with, grill has been removed and headlamp is now loose..) and my rear wheels have a bit of camber seems a bit OTT, but thats that unfortunately. 3 cars were damaged in the impound. Some cars had signs of door cards being removed, headlinders being removed, you name it. Those cars were more inspected rather than tested... Also when the cars were recovered, they couldn't of gave less of a toss about looking after them. I run MK2 Golf front struts for my air, so it airs up to less than standard height. They dragged my car on like it was scrap, may as well of pulled the valance off. Since when did getting impounded make damaging cars ok? Overall, we're all between £1200 and £1800 out of pocked depending on transport, (i realistically bought my car back) so it's been at least a months wage for most of us. We had our plates and V5 taken (Don't even know myself if thats legal), and made to transport the cars back to the UK. In light of that, i guess it's an important lesson for next year. I'll just make sure when i actually get around to building up an E28, it's not going to get me in trouble over in Europe...
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Last Edit: Jun 3, 2019 9:24:57 GMT by lewdeak
Insta: lewdeak1986 E28 518I 50% of a MK1 Golf 2003 Lupo GTI
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Dr.AK
Part of things
Posts: 411
Club RR Member Number: 62
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Chiming in here as I was on scene and ferried the lads to a hostel to stay the night as the rest stop where they were stopped was only 20 minutes from me.
Regardless wether or not the cars were safe or not (personal opinion is that most of them were fine, the Mercedes for example was sketchy, though, but then again I've never liked rubbing tires, for me it was always about getting a tight fit with no rubbing), the lads were unlucky to run into the cops in this particular area.
We have a few areas in Germany where police are like bloodhounds regarding any modified cars - Cologne being one of them. Had they just passed through and stopped at the next rest stop instead, I'm pretty sure they would've been fine. The police at the moment are escalating like mad when it comes to cars. Like ZXRob said, it's caused by street racing. I guess it's easy to just lump all us car people together, so anything that's visibly modifed or very loud or anything has a very high chance of getting pulled in towns like Cologne or Düsseldorf. It's caused a big shift in the local scenes, in my eyes. Few years ago you'd still see slammed cars a lot, nowadays a lot of those who used to run extremely modified cars have switched over to just running track-modified or near stock sporty cars, offroaders or classics. Because it means less hassle that way. Even if your car is entirely TÜV certified, the cops can still cause a headache.
Regarding the actions of the cops, I personally doubt it was entirely legal of them to take the places and papers as afaik they should've only been able to tell them not to drive the cars in Germany, but not in the entirety of Europe as they did...
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Last Edit: Jun 3, 2019 9:57:58 GMT by Dr.AK
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luckyseven
Posted a lot
Owning sneering dismissive pedantry since 1970
Posts: 3,839
Club RR Member Number: 45
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Well, respect is due to you for apparently signing up purely to set the record straight from the point of view of a participant in this circus. Whilst it in no way dissuades me from my original point of view which is "don't modify cars to be stupid and/or dangerous", I do have sympathy with the situation that it landed you in. The German ol Bill would appear to have been heavy handed and unreasonable BUT they don't really have any obligation to be reasonable. I've personally been in countries where phoning the British Consulate has resulted in the immortal words "I'm breaking international law by even talking to you. I suggest all you can do is bluff it out at the border" so I guess that in the great scheme of things ze Germans just being a bit unhelpful is quite far down the scale. For example, try getting better treatment from the rozzers in, say Mexico or Russia or pretty much anywhere Arabic* and you might feel nostalgic for good old Teutonic indifference. Maybe we feel because it's a European country they will be more courteous, but they don't have to. A mate at work was banned for speeding in France and they took his license off him then and there at the side of the road. The only reason they didn't just leave his bike there too was that they allowed him to ride to a cashpoint to empty his bank account and pay their fine. Then they grudgingly agreed to impound the bike (at a cost) until he could have it recovered. I think this is a fairly normal attitude towards foreigners breaking the law in other countries. Pretty much the police equivalent of a Gallic shrug, in fact In addition, never underestimate the profound dislike for the British abroad. Brexit isn't helping, but centuries of empire and attitude followed by half a century of drunken fools on football or club'n'birds holidays have done nothing to endear the British to the rest of the world * other grim countries are available
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You've all seen the crack, so maybe it'd be good to hear from one of the people who got impounded right? Yes 100% The go fund me was not set up by any of us. Someone just simply saw the situation and decided to help... We weren't racing, nor were we driving aggressively in any fashion at all. I don't like driving abroad as it is, so i don't push it. Don't know where the whole malarkey of asking for sympathy came from, it happened, we dealt with it. End of. Suspect it was from Instagram where most people were following what was going on and from the GoFundMe set up (which people now learn you guys didn't set up) Was i aware my car was quite evidently risky? Completely. Had i accounted for potentially getting fined in Austria? Yes. Is my car legit? (I.E MOT) Yes. My cars not bodged, i spent 6 solid weeks getting the car built up with this trip in mind. Would it be ok every day (I daily this car) on normal wheels? Yes. I've driven this car in a similar state in the UK daily for on and off 5 years, and never been pulled once. I've had more police tell me my cars cool and have a chat with me about it, rather than getting spanked. Don't think yours was that one attracting that kind of criticism to be fair. Did we expect to stop for food at a services, to be carless 6 hours later dumped at the side of the road, with absolutely no sleeping arrangements, no transport, no information on where the cars were going, no help with finding accommodation, and no contact numbers? No. We were literally told "thats your problem now" and left. Not really a fair situation is it? Reckon the German police totally did a number on you, set up an example, discourage others etc. etc. It is brilliant people like Dr.AK that saved the day and that does make this (wider) car community great. I've had a car get in to an undriveable state part way across Europe, no way to get to where I wanted to go to, no idea where the hell I was and no one to call to help (hint for everyone else, get European break down if you are going to Europe). We're all resourceful people though, luckily for me I had another car enthusiast come to my rescue, same as you. It isn't the police's job to help you I guess (although that does seem wrong). I think one thing I took from my experience, and I guess you'll have the same, is when travelling overseas, have a plan B, some useful numbers stored etc. So if you do have a problem you don't have that thirty minutes or so of stressful panic, you just know, okay right I need to do this now. We were kindly informed that had there been less of us, we'd of been let off. 3 friends stopped at the exact same services, in full view of the police the following day, in cars just as risky, and were left alone. You tell me if that's fair? It isn't ... same as when I sailed past a police car doing over a ton, and they pulled over the person behind me. Some times you eat the bear, some times the bear eats you. As I said before I think you were made an example of, or maybe you just were unlucky. You saw we got hire cars, and thankfully we still got to enjoy 5 days in Austria Despite all the curse word leading up to it, I hope you got to enjoy it. Getting the cars back cost us all 900 Euro's, with the crime costing 80. The rest was on testing and transport. So realistically, we could've just been fined 80 euro's on the spot and told to leave. Once again I suspect they were making examples of you :/ 3 cars were damaged in the impound. Some cars had signs of door cards being removed, headlinders being removed, you name it. Those cars were more inspected rather than tested... Also when the cars were recovered, they couldn't of gave less of a toss about looking after them. I run MK2 Golf front struts for my air, so it airs up to less than standard height. They dragged my car on like it was scrap, may as well of pulled the valance off. Since when did getting impounded make damaging cars ok? Definitely got my sympathy on that. My old Alfa got towed in London for parking on a double yellow (it was faded down to a single line and I thought it was a single yellow and okay at the time I parked). When I got it back front wing and boot lid had damage on. Nothing I could really do about it apparently, said it was already there, paid my £130 release fee (which was more than I'd earned for the days work I'd done when parking the car (was self employed at the time)). Fumed about it every time I looked at the car. Then a bin lorry drove in to it I'll just make sure when i actually get around to building up an E28, it's not going to get me in trouble over in Europe... So interestingly I believe THIS is why skinnylew started the thread. So we know what we can and can't get away with driving where. What our legal rights actually are. Who to call if we do find ourselves with issues etc. etc. Thanks for joining up and filling details, no discussion can really be a good discussion without all the information.
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tdk
Part of things
Posts: 958
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Interesting posts - it is illegal to drive in convoy in Germany without prior agreement and, as the Police there mentioned, had you been in 2 or 3 cars they would have probably ignored you (unless you were driving like idiots). Any large group of cars is drawing attention, particularly modified ones, and you really were asking for trouble. And you got it. To be "dumped at the roadside" is entirely your problem, due to the above, they're not there to chauffeur you to the nearest hotel and ask what your breakfast preferences are, they're enforcing the law and trying to keep everyone safe. I'm sure they'd rather not have had to spend the day listening to folks whinge about the legalities of stretched tyres. FWIW, I have spent many a strained hour translating for Brits who have cocked up on German roads (and particularly, 'that' toll road). I always find German plod to be pretty reasonable, even when I've been stopped myself on occasion. Sounds harsh, but that's how it is. I appreciate you signing up to present your side of the situation in an open and friendly way.
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Last Edit: Jun 3, 2019 10:58:57 GMT by tdk
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Well, respect is due to you for apparently signing up purely to set the record straight from the point of view of a participant in this circus. Whilst it in no way dissuades me from my original point of view which is "don't modify cars to be stupid and/or dangerous", I do have sympathy with the situation that it landed you in. The German ol Bill would appear to have been heavy handed and unreasonable BUT they don't really have any obligation to be reasonable. I've personally been in countries where phoning the British Consulate has resulted in the immortal words "I'm breaking international law by even talking to you. I suggest all you can do is bluff it out at the border" so I guess that in the great scheme of things ze Germans just being a bit unhelpful is quite far down the scale. For example, try getting better treatment from the rozzers in, say Mexico or Russia or pretty much anywhere Arabic* and you might feel nostalgic for good old Teutonic indifference. Maybe we feel because it's a European country they will be more courteous, but they don't have to. A mate at work was banned for speeding in France and they took his license off him then and there at the side of the road. The only reason they didn't just leave his bike there too was that they allowed him to ride to a cashpoint to empty his bank account and pay their fine. Then they grudgingly agreed to impound the bike (at a cost) until he could have it recovered. I think this is a fairly normal attitude towards foreigners breaking the law in other countries. Pretty much the police equivalent of a Gallic shrug, in fact In addition, never underestimate the profound dislike for the British abroad. Brexit isn't helping, but centuries of empire and attitude followed by half a century of drunken fools on football or club'n'birds holidays have done nothing to endear the British to the rest of the world * other grim countries are availableI'd been notified about the thread was all, so i thought actually having some info from someone who'd been involved would be a good help! Rumors etc wind me up, so i like to get the picture set right. As much as i own a car modified in lets say a not typical fashion, i myself agree with your point. I own a Lupo GTI too, which is just sensibly dropped on coilovers and nothing more. It's just a risk that i understand full well owning a car like mine, like i said if i were to put my other set of wheels on, it'd just look like a lowered car once again I've literally never had any involvement with the police in my life other than in Germany, so it was one of them where i just didn't know what to expect Bit of an eye opener mind! I think the main point behind it was to make an example of us, a lot of the officers mentioned multiple times they're trying to swap people away from doing the Worthersee tour more and more every year... Oh trust me, i spoke to a lot of Germans, Belgians and Austrian's while on the trip, all mentioned how past actions and brexit will have had a huge bearing on the whole situation...
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Insta: lewdeak1986 E28 518I 50% of a MK1 Golf 2003 Lupo GTI
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Chiming in here as I was on scene and ferried the lads to a hostel to stay the night as the rest stop where they were stopped was only 20 minutes from me. Regardless wether or not the cars were safe or not (personal opinion is that most of them were fine, the Mercedes for example was sketchy, though, but then again I've never liked rubbing tires, for me it was always about getting a tight fit with no rubbing), the lads were unlucky to run into the cops in this particular area. We have a few areas in Germany where police are like bloodhounds regarding any modified cars - Cologne being one of them. Had they just passed through and stopped at the next rest stop instead, I'm pretty sure they would've been fine. The police at the moment are escalating like mad when it comes to cars. Like ZXRob said, it's caused by street racing. I guess it's easy to just lump all us car people together, so anything that's visibly modifed or very loud or anything has a very high chance of getting pulled in towns like Cologne or Düsseldorf. It's caused a big shift in the local scenes, in my eyes. Few years ago you'd still see slammed cars a lot, nowadays a lot of those who used to run extremely modified cars have switched over to just running track-modified or near stock sporty cars, offroaders or classics. Because it means less hassle that way. Even if your car is entirely TÜV certified, the cops can still cause a headache. Regarding the actions of the cops, I personally doubt it was entirely legal of them to take the places and papers as afaik they should've only been able to tell them not to drive the cars in Germany, but not in the entirety of Europe as they did... Owe you big time for helping us on this man. I'll Sort you a beer, or 12 next time i'm over.
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Insta: lewdeak1986 E28 518I 50% of a MK1 Golf 2003 Lupo GTI
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Interesting posts - it is illegal to drive in convoy in Germany without prior agreement and, as the Police there mentioned, had you been in 2 or 3 cars they would have probably ignored you (unless you were driving like idiots). Any large group of cars is drawing attention, particularly modified ones, and you really were asking for trouble. And you got it. To be "dumped at the roadside" is entirely your problem, due to the above, they're not there to chauffeur you to the nearest hotel and ask what your breakfast preferences are, they're enforcing the law and trying to keep everyone safe. I'm sure they'd rather not have had to spend the day listening to folks whinge about the legalities of stretched tyres. FWIW, I have spent many a strained hour translating for Brits who have cocked up on German roads (and particularly, 'that' toll road). I always find German plod to be pretty reasonable, even when I've been stopped myself on occasion. Sounds harsh, but that's how it is. I appreciate you signing up to present your side of the situation in an open and friendly way. Yes this is something we found out all too late unfortunately, so next year we've planned to be in small groups hahaha. I'd never expect to be like handed a silver spoon and given command of the situation, just an idea of where to go and any local transport services would've been great at 3 in the morn I dealt with 3 officers in total, and to be fair to them they were great. On the night obviously the mood was very rough and everything was a huge flap, but after returning to cologne and talking to the officers again they became very helpful. On the collection day of all the cars it was actually quite nice to be able to have a laugh with them. They all said themselves they understand our situation really sucks, but they've also got to do a job. I'll never deny thats not completely fair, but it's never fun being on the receiving end of it. Yeah i'm not one to be an about things! No point being a dick in todays world man, just let things be known and be open about issues.
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Insta: lewdeak1986 E28 518I 50% of a MK1 Golf 2003 Lupo GTI
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So interestingly I believe THIS is why skinnylew started the thread. So we know what we can and can't get away with driving where. What our legal rights actually are. Who to call if we do find ourselves with issues etc. etc. Thanks for joining up and filling details, no discussion can really be a good discussion without all the information. Thats it man! Whole reason i posted was so people got to see it from the side of those involved and how it really happened! Like you also mentioned, this thread is an ideal chance to educate people on what is right and what is wrong when driving over there.... I know full well what i need to be able to next year thats a fact
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Insta: lewdeak1986 E28 518I 50% of a MK1 Golf 2003 Lupo GTI
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63v8
Part of things
Posts: 232
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Always good to read the facts of what actually happened than gossip of what may of happened. An expensive trip but glad you got home OK.
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skinnylew
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 5,546
Club RR Member Number: 11
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Thanks for signing up and filling in a fair few blanks and information. As said i did try to steer the conversation away from criticism and bashing other people's rides, but to try and lay out facts to enable people to be informed and educated and learn from others errors.
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stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,834
Club RR Member Number: 174
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Don't think I'd chance it in a foreign country. Don't mind UK Cops, been there done/still doing that. The Saxo is actually legit by the letter of the law which is what baffles the police so much as there are obvious rub marks on the arches. I enjoy running stuff close to the wire just to see what happens, they've tried doing me for all sorts and not managed yet.
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" In addition, never underestimate the profound dislike for the British abroad. Brexit isn't helping, but centuries of empire and attitude followed by half a century of drunken fools on football or club'n'birds holidays have done nothing to endear the British to the rest of the world"
There is a thought...
And talking about cultural differences, they drove into the country of "befehl ist befehl" and "ordnung muss sein" in one of their cars which is pretty obnoxious in the way its modified.
I don't really care if it is deemed to be safe or not, but rubbing marks on both sides of the front fender lip seems moronic to me. Cause you just handed them proof it has turned a wheel, that way.
To be honest, given all of that, and my own experiences from a long time ago, I don't see how this could have turned out any other way...
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Thanks for signing up and filling in a fair few blanks and information. As said i did try to steer the conversation away from criticism and bashing other people's rides, but to try and lay out facts to enable people to be informed and educated and learn from others errors. No problem! Yeah criticism never really solves anything i find, but what better way to add to the knowledge bank with some first hand experience eh
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Insta: lewdeak1986 E28 518I 50% of a MK1 Golf 2003 Lupo GTI
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