skinnylew
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 5,546
Club RR Member Number: 11
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May 17, 2019 20:28:25 GMT
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So I'm sure that a fair few of you will have seen the incident that has occurred to some UK attendees en route to Worthersee festival in Austria. I've stolen what was said in Darren W's thread so as not to derail that as it contains soooooo much good content from Austria it deserves to be kept largely controversy free. I don't want this to be a negative critical thread but more of a share your knowledge and stories to benefit those on this forum. What do you need to look out for when driving abroad? What do you need with you? What is banned in certain countries but not others? In this instance i believe that there were issues over the air ride, custom exhausts, tyre stretch and poke/tuck/camber and some lighting issues? I saw at least one car being seized on instagram last night - unsure of the defects they found but I've heard instances of this for years, I don't think we can blame brexit on this one. I thought air ride was the one way lowered cars could be excused the "too low" laws in some European countries. I believe in Germany, if a car isn't fitted with air ride from factory there are a lot of criteria it has to meet to get TUV approval - including being drivable when fully aired out. I feel for these guys - must be very stressful! Ten tuned cars secured on motorway rest area On the evening of May 16 th (Thursday), the highway police stopped the journey of ten Britons (20 to 31 years old) at the rest area Frechen-Süd on the A4 to a tuning meeting. The policemen ensured the dangerously "souped-up" cars with the participation of the specialists of the race project. Today an expert deals with the vehicles. The conspicuous vehicles of the brands BMW, Honda, Seat, VW and Mercedes were highway patrol officers at 19 clock at the rest area. Even at first glance, they found, among other things, the not permissible in Germany combination of significantly lowered chassis and wheel spacers. At some of the cars, the wheels were beyond the bodywork. On several cars, the chassis were also lowered so far that it came to full contact of the wheel and body (photos). This can be clearly recognized by the massive sanding marks on the tire or the rubber wear on the wheel arch (photo). Further serious changes and deficiencies in the exhaust systems, the mufflers and the built-in bulbs of the cars take the experts today under the microscope. ________________________________ From what I gather the cars were seized for things that are illegal here too - questionable amounts of tyre stretch and illegal front tinted windows. Possibly air ride related and noise related too, I guess they seize them for inspection rather than risk letting them continue a journey that's potentially a hazard to other road users. Illegal front tints really wind me up, I've nearly been knocked of my bicycle more than once by cars with them pulling out of side roads across me.
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Last Edit: May 17, 2019 20:37:48 GMT by skinnylew
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May 17, 2019 21:35:26 GMT
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This is just boll@@ks sorry for breaking with RR rules on swearing but this just ain’t right...there’s a lot more I could say but I’d better not ....penance pic coming up soon
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Last Edit: May 17, 2019 21:40:43 GMT by Mercdan68
Fraud owners club member 1999 Jaguar s type 1993 ford escort
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May 17, 2019 21:39:51 GMT
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Penance no more to add...
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Fraud owners club member 1999 Jaguar s type 1993 ford escort
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skinnylew
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 5,546
Club RR Member Number: 11
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May 17, 2019 21:55:34 GMT
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Step away from the home brew on the RRW campsite Dan......I reckon both of those would be tugged by the Polizei as well....
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May 17, 2019 22:35:59 GMT
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I believe Germany differs a fair bit from countrys like the UK and Hollland. You cannot fit every tyre brand to your car. Per car there are a tyre brands/type specified (zugelassen) and if you get to the MOT with an for your car unspecified brand, you will not get an ok. Also fitting different then standard handlebars to a motorbike or a universal fairing are only allowed if these are "zugelassen" for your bike. In Holland you can fit all tyre brands to a car. In Germany the MOT is not done by commercial garages but by a government organisation. Germany is also famous for noise controls on motorbikes. They wont let you continuu your journey when it makes too much noise
Peter
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,710
Club RR Member Number: 34
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May 17, 2019 23:14:29 GMT
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Although some of the modifications on some of the cars impounded were of questionable legality, so where the actions of the German police in how they dealt with this group.
Personally it only re-enforces the stereotype of how German police deal with foreign registered ‘visiting’ vehicles(even totally standard ones), and puts me off ever driving any of my cars in Germany.
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This......
Is not a fray I really want to enter.
Ultimately it’s their country, their rules.
And if you do not want to respect and play to their rules, then you should refrain, like Dez says.
I challenge you to show me one of those who got pulled, who did not know that they risked getting a tug or worse.
In the simplest form, it can be said that if they really did not know they were in a different country, they should be driving on the left side of the road as well. However, they all have foreign car insurance, got the documents and should be able to read and comprehend, if not, they should not even be in charge of a motor vehicle
I am 100% on their side, as I like modifying and changing stuff, but...... they played the game, and lost, regardless of how bad it feels and looks. Playing rugby Football rules.
And as “skinnylew” said at the outset, this is actually more about it being a lesson.
I would not travel to America with a gun in my baggage even if licensed here.
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It does highlight how lax things are in the Uk. Pity It’s totally ruined their Wothersee experience,but come on guys, really? Couldn’t you see that coming? 😊
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kabman
Part of things
Posts: 347
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Those do look properly shonky though. You'd be risking getting pulled in any country. You'd get pulled in the UK if our police could be bothered.
At least the police in Germany take cars they consider dodgy off the road. In France and Switzerland they're more interested in extracting cash from drivers then letting them carry on their way.
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I am not a 'kill-joy' but I read many of the posts on this forum and question what drives individuals to do some of the things portrayed, to their vehicles. I also understand that we live in a democratic society and individuals can do as they please, within the framework of the law. When one looks at the images depicting vehicles with dramatically reduced suspension; extremely wide wheels; exaggerated camber angles of said wheels; I do not have the technical knowledge to know what benefits are achieved by carrying out such modificationsa and assume that they have merely been undertaken for the asthetic view. In many cases with little or no regard to legislation covering these practices. The contingent stopped by the Police in Germany all appear to be driving highly-modified vehicles; all of which clearly draw attention to themselves, and might just as well have had a huge flag flying from them, to alert all and sundry to their presence. Having attracted attention from the 'German Plod' , who are known for their efficiency in enforcxing their laws, what did those who had transgressed the local laws expect; to some degree they are lucky that they didn't get their vehicles confiscated and impounded until any fines (and don't forget storage fees) were paid? I am sorry but if you want to play games, just remember there is always someone who is likely to step out of the shadows and spoil your party. Clearly a very steep learning curve for some individuals.
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ZXRob
Europe
Posts: 1,193
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I have worked in the UK as a mechanic and I work in Germany as a mechanic. I get cars fit for TüV every day and despite what the internet tells you, it's not much different than in England. The only difference is you need papers for all aftermarket parts fitted to your car. Be that wheels, lights, wind deflectors whatever. I don't see that as a bad thing because it stops many badly chucked together cars driving around. From the 3 pictures above I would say that those cars wouldn't get an MOT either. I like messing with cars and find modified cars cool. But I prefer it when they aren't shonky. Dez don't let it put you off. Your cars would be fine as they are old!
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braaap
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,569
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Oh those Krauts! Declaring wars and lose the game; but winning at wembley then; now spoiling the fun of some innocents brits - what comes next? They must really hate you!
Now really guys, calm down.
Looking at the pics those guys really screamed out loud for attention. So they must not complain that they got some. The slammed stances, the tyre stretch, loud pipes - maybe that´s kind of tolerated (I doubt that) in your country. But it is a total no-go in germany. For germans as well as for foreigners.
Every year a few of these gumball racers get caught for breaking speed laws. So how can these brits expect to pass germany without any incident? German police knwos when certain events take place and where the participants travel along.
Even if they were successful, austrian police (and laws) are even harder. A lot of cars have been mothballed at The Lake in the past.
So if they insist on taking part in those questionable cars, they shouild have done like those 8 belgians shown in darrenw´s thread: hire a truck and have them hauled down there!
But some people sometimes need to learn a lesson the hard way!
Now go ahead, stone me.
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Last Edit: May 18, 2019 8:29:25 GMT by braaap
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Looks like the Polizei have stopped a number of unsafe vehicles on their roads, so doing their job then.
I love well modified cars and although some people's taste baffles me each to their own , but some of those issues shown above are just plain dangerous.
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Needs a bigger hammer mate.......
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May 18, 2019 10:39:00 GMT
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No sympathy for them, stupid camber, stupid stretch (which is also illegal here in the UK), straight pipes and black windows. They'd get a tug over here for most of that if we had the traffic resources.
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olduns
Part of things
Posts: 326
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May 18, 2019 10:51:12 GMT
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not that i'd ever do anything remotely like that to anything i own but i was always of the thought that if a car is 'legal' in it's registered country and travelling within the EU and for visiting only then it's acceptable? 'legal' in UK is a debatable thing regards the above vehicles but hey ho...
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May 18, 2019 10:57:48 GMT
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I don't see how they can whinge, they should get pulled when they hit the UK as well as they'd fail an MOT
Oh, please Gofund me for my own failure, curse word snowflakes
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May 18, 2019 11:37:51 GMT
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ok....bad example....they were really pushing their luck but its yet another case where you could legitimately come unstuck due to the sloped playing field that is the e.u!! is every driver of every vehicle expected to digest the full wording of very individual member countries type use legislation , mot rules , permissable mods ad infunitum??? i don't personally care as other than the opel dull-mobiles we hire in lanza , i have no interest in driving on the continent at all...but it does highlight the crazyness of it all.
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Last Edit: May 18, 2019 14:54:02 GMT by strikey
'80 s1 924 turbo..hibernating '80 golf gli cabriolet...doing impression of a skip '97 pug 106 commuter...continuing cheapness making me smile!
firm believer in the k.i.s.s and f.i.s.h principles.
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May 18, 2019 11:38:21 GMT
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If they hadn't been pulled over, and Darren had posted pics of them we'd all be calling them epic, awesome, perfect stance etc. Just sayin'
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,710
Club RR Member Number: 34
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May 18, 2019 13:49:56 GMT
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My more in-depth take on it is this.
I don’t think what the german police have done is legal. One, they have treated individuals as a group, impounding all 11 cars even though maybe 3 or 4 have the major defects they refer to (especially the green Merc). The others don’t seem to have any obvious external defects, (a few of them look pretty much standard cars) yet they have all been impounded to be subjected to a retrospective ‘safety test’ to a different set of rules than are applicable in the vehicles originating country.
Also, we have reciprocal EU agreements that any member states periodical roadworthiness certificates are legal in any other EU member state for their duration. Tyre stretch, in anything other than the major extreme, has been certified by DVSA as MOT passable, even though it wouldn’t pass a TUV test. Also the difference between airride here and in Germany is here the car is presented for MOT at a selected height, and it must pass at that height- no tyre interference etc. The tester isn’t permitted to adjust the suspension to check for clearance at different ride heights. In Germany it must have full clearance at full drop. Here the noise and emissions regulations allow the removal or modification of exhaust components, within reason. In Germany they don’t.
What the german police have done is ignored the reciprocal agreements in place and are trying to impose german laws on visiting foreign vehicles that would be legal in their own country, which is exactly the thing these laws exist to prevent, and is to an extent what the EU is meant to be about. But it seems what is good enough for everyone else isnt good enough for Germany.
I feel a half decent lawyer would tear this to shreds, but obviously a few foreign kids in old cars sat at the side of the motorway in a different country hundreds of miles from home ain’t gunna have access to that sort of thing, so the heavy handed german police approach has won.
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May 18, 2019 15:28:59 GMT
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Oh those Krauts! Declaring wars and lose the game; but winning at wembley then; now spoiling the fun of some innocents brits - what comes next? They must really hate you! Now really guys, calm down. Looking at the pics those guys really screamed out loud for attention. So they must not complain that they got some. The slammed stances, the tyre stretch, loud pipes - maybe that´s kind of tolerated (I doubt that) in your country. But it is a total no-go in germany. For germans as well as for foreigners. Every year a few of these gumball racers get caught for breaking speed laws. So how can these brits expect to pass germany without any incident? German police knwos when certain events take place and where the participants travel along. Even if they were successful, austrian police (and laws) are even harder. A lot of cars have been mothballed at The Lake in the past. So if they insist on taking part in those questionable cars, they shouild have done like those 8 belgians shown in darrenw´s thread: hire a truck and have them hauled down there! But some people sometimes need to learn a lesson the hard way! Now go ahead, stone me. Totally agree, there “building” cars for social media liked then crying when told they can’t in someone else’s country
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