gryphon
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 330 
Club RR Member Number: 157
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About time  I should probably let more knowledgeable people comment on paint, but the next ones I want to try are POR15 or a 2 part mastic... The powder coated parts started chipping and rusting in under a year, hammerite lasted a month if that! |
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Love the ideas you have here.
Paint wise I've found rustbuster epoxy mastic to be excellent. It's expensive but a chassis pack goes far especially if sprayed. I don't rate POR15 at all it flaked off my project beetle floor pans just parked outside... despite medical grade prep work
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cb11acd
Part of things
Posts: 132
Club RR Member Number: 122
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Oct 20, 2019 20:26:42 GMT
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Progress! I have carried on dismantling the 2CV. I had taken the front and rear axles off already but I needed to clear some space to take those apart. I am only in a single (although a decent single) garage. So I made a dolly for the parts I was not working on. Putting the chassis on its side and I have cleared the floor space to work on first the front axle and later the rear. I also had to wait for some Citroen tools to remove the arms and disconnect the track rod ends. With a newly acquired rubber mallet, the arms eventually came off. Next step is strip down the front axle, paint and reassemble.    |
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Oct 20, 2019 21:02:29 GMT
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Great work on this, but can we have a few extra photos of the gold e34 too
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1994 BMW 525i touring
2004 BMW Z4 sorn and broken
1977 Ford Escort
1982 Ford Capri getting restored
1999 Mazda B2500 daily driver.
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very intrigued to see what you make of this project...great ideas
Jp
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I know its spelled Norman Luxury Yacht, but its pronounced Throat Wobbler Mangrove!
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cb11acd
Part of things
Posts: 132
Club RR Member Number: 122
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Great work on this, but can we have a few extra photos of the gold e34 too I am afraid I sold that just under a year ago, which I regret. It was a really solid car although terrible paint and the interior was ripped. It was also the lowest spec with the 4 cylinder petrol so very very slow with little room to upgrade apart from a new engine.
My daily is now a rather reliable (but bland) Fiesta ST. I am going to go back to something retro and interesting asap. currently the Renault Avantime is top of the list.
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gryphon
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 330
Club RR Member Number: 157
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Great work on this, but can we have a few extra photos of the gold e34 too I am afraid I sold that just under a year ago, which I regret. It was a really solid car although terrible paint and the interior was ripped. It was also the lowest spec with the 4 cylinder petrol so very very slow with little room to upgrade apart from a new engine.
My daily is now a rather reliable (but bland) Fiesta ST. I am going to go back to something retro and interesting asap. currently the Renault Avantime is top of the list.
No denying it was slow, but it was a very comfortable car! I have a single photo of it from a while back when we used to work together and actually managed to park the retros next to each other!  Back on topic - if you're still looking for underside paint recommendations, there is a very helpful (as ever) post from Grumpy here that is worth a read: forum.retro-rides.org/post/2537534/thread |
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cb11acd
Part of things
Posts: 132
Club RR Member Number: 122
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... and just like that, the front end has been stripped, cleaned, de-rusted, painted and assembled. I am just waiting on a small rubber piece to finish it off.
I ended up going for silver Por15, which I know isn't practical but in reality this car* was never going to be.
I have also been away for the last month living in a hotel in Cranfield (not much to do there) so I have been rather bored in the evenings. So bored I started to think...
Could I make the car* mid-engined and RWD?
Hmm ^^^ "Artists" impression.
The front arms of a 2CV, mount in the same way as the rear, and so in theory are interchangable. Of course they will be need to be locked in place (or have 4 wheel steering....?) and the front arms (which will no longer have driveshafts going into them, and thus brakes) will need outboard brake disks. So an adapter for that should work on the new front arms, and the rears will have inboard brakes on the gearbox.
So that was my crude photoshop I did one evening in the hotel room. However I am now home and began to layout the parts. I noticed 2 things. 1) its going to look awesome, and 2) My sketch was way off. I underestimated the width of a person which really makes the proportions in that sketch work. Making it any wider will ruin the aesthetic. Here are some pics:
That square of wood is roughly the size of the engine.
Exposed rear gearbox will look pretty cool.
I also took the chassis plate off the underside (bolted on) to have a look. It is a lot more substatial than I expected, and in really good condition. If I go ahead I will probably lighten the internal structure a bit, replace the steel plate I took off with aluminium and look at lowering the H-point of the seat by scooping out a section. To drop the ride height I will probably follow what others before me have done in 2CV racing, stiffer springs, adjusted camber, and might also lift the suspension arms up 30mm or so to drop the chassis.
This is just an idea, and not necessarily what I am going to do, I am going to gather more measurements and do a more proper layout drawing to get an idea of how this would look. I could also make it a 1.5 seater with the 0.5 being fuel tank/ storage, but that would just be un-social.
While I am deciding, I am going to build a wooden ergonomics buck so I don't under (or over) estimate the interior space, and I can add that into the equation.
*Whatever this ends up as in n+1 years
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Love how these journeys unspool as they go along. Looking forward to seeing where it all lands in the end.
Came here because rumor has it that a 2CV is about to come knocking on my shop door for some rust remediation. While no stranger to rust repair and general fabrication, I have no experience with the 2CV's foibles and pitfalls in this department.
If there are any good rustoration threads or sites that any of you know of, welcome the referral.
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Frankenhealey
Club Retro Rides Member
And I looked, and behold, a pale horse! And its rider's name was Death
Posts: 3,882
Club RR Member Number: 15
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Why not go the whole hog and make it rear wheel steer only?
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Tales of the Volcano Lair hereFrankenBug - Vulcan Power hereThe Frankenhealey here |
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cb11acd
Part of things
Posts: 132
Club RR Member Number: 122
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Love how these journeys unspool as they go along. Looking forward to seeing where it all lands in the end. Came here because rumor has it that a 2CV is about to come knocking on my shop door for some rust remediation. While no stranger to rust repair and general fabrication, I have no experience with the 2CV's foibles and pitfalls in this department. If there are any good rustoration threads or sites that any of you know of, welcome the referral.
There are a few good ones on here if you search for 2CV.
Parts are cheap, and you can buy every panel and new chassis so repairing one (if you have the skill) should be quite straight forward. A lot of the parts will come from the EU though, so might want to order soon depending on what happens in politics.
I have some good doors and a few other bits if you need to find any used parts.
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Last Edit: Dec 2, 2019 16:53:03 GMT by cb11acd
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It wont be my car, but rather one of the adopted children that seem to find their way into my shop. The owner has a handle on the mechanical and has a new chassis on the way if not here already. He is just not into welding and sheet-metal forming. From what little I know, it doe not look too daunting. Will read the above link thanks.
Famous last words.
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cb11acd
Part of things
Posts: 132
Club RR Member Number: 122
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Progress! I am still toying with the idea of a mid engined, RWD 2CV chassis thing.
But why go to all this effort? It is hard to explain my thought process, but I have been interested in hillclimb and sprint cars for probably half my life now. One car in particular that caught my eye (especially as I used to own a mini) was Alan Staniforths Terrapin.
This is a rear/mid engined mini based hillclimb car. space frame chassis but using most of the parts from a mini. He has a few books which are well worth a read.
Now onto the progress.
I managed to ifnd someone who had drawn some parts of a 2CV in 2D CAD, who very kindly sent me the files to play with. This is a 2CV chassis with a rear mounted BMW engine. The chassis has been dropped 50mm, and the rear suspension moved rearwards about 50mm.
You can see that the engine clashes with the rear crossmember that holds the suspension. I am also not sure how accurate these drawings are, or if I even want to use the BMW engine. I think initially at least it will be 2CV powered with a big bore kit or something. It will be light enough anyway not to need much more power and I think it would be more interesting keeping as many original parts as possible.
So I mocked it up in real life.
ooo Instagrammy... (I am also on Instagram, if you want to follow)
Dodgey driveshaft angles, but the engine can be moved forward a couple of cntinmeters, and the gearbox isn't fully mated to the engine.
I will probably notch the rear cross member, rather than fully cut it, and that will give another few centimeters which should be enough. At this point I am 95% convinced I will go ahead with this.
This will only fit without the cooling fan, but I can fit aftermarket ones instead, the pully for the alternator will fit once I seperate it from the oringinal fan.
Gear linkage will be fun, but as a last resort I can convert it to a cable system, and the front brakes do not have a confirmed solution but I think I could get front calipers to work.
I am also getting my first ever CAD PC (after being a CAD engineer for near enough 3 years) this new year, so should be able to model it in 3D (or some of it at least).
Next step is..... I am not sure to be honest. I need to get another set of front arms If I am to do this, and then the front will need to be adjusted to change the castor angle. I also need to find a way to lock the rear hubs in place. all of it should be solvable though.
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Last Edit: Dec 9, 2019 12:18:34 GMT by cb11acd
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sonus
Europe
Posts: 1,392
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Loving this!
Could you not lover the cross member to pass under the engine and let the trailing arms point somewhat upwards? I guess you’d need minimal ground clearance for a hill climb special?
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Current
1968 TVR VIXEN S1 V8 Prototype
2004 TVR T350C
2017 BMW 340i
Previous
BMW 325d E91LCI - sold
Alfa Romeo GTV - sold
Citroen AX GT - at the breakers
Ford Puma 1.7 - sold
Volvo V50 2.0d - sold
MGB GT - wrecked by fire
MG ZT 1.8T - sold
VW E-golf Electric - sold
Mini Countryman 1.6D -sold
Land Rover Discovery TD5 - sold
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cb11acd
Part of things
Posts: 132
Club RR Member Number: 122
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Hillclimb inspired but it will be road legal so I do want a sensible amount of ground clearence. I also don't know what wheel and tyre combo I will use, and I think I want to increase in diameter which will also raise the ground clearence. Still a lot to work out regarding that. In those images it is sat at roughly 150mm clearence (wheels raised up on blocks).
I am not sure what a sensible ground clearence would be for this driven on normal roads...
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If the BMW twin looks like it fouls the chassis, what about a Moto Guzzi V twin. It's a nice classic engine which would probably give the car the "feel" of a classic racer but as the cylinders are angled upwards it might allow you to mount the engine lower?
S.
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cb11acd
Part of things
Posts: 132
Club RR Member Number: 122
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If the BMW twin looks like it fouls the chassis, what about a Moto Guzzi V twin. It's a nice classic engine which would probably give the car the "feel" of a classic racer but as the cylinders are angled upwards it might allow you to mount the engine lower? S. I did consider a V twin as it is also a popular conversion.
With the BMW engine (and the 2CV one) the interfearence is with the rear "axle" (red beam in the illustration above) rather than the chassis legs. All engines should be able to sit above the existing chassis legs.
The other factor is cost. to buy conversion parts, the bike to strip down to get the engine etc will easily be £1000+ which right now I don't have. I want to make some progress while I am doing my PhD (thus, poor) and so have chossen to keep it as original as possible.
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lightyearman
Part of things
GYJDM - Grimsby based Japanese car club - Find us on Facebook
Posts: 639
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Dec 10, 2019 18:37:16 GMT
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This looks like a fabulous project!
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'89 Honda CRX siR Glassroof Flint black fully restored track beasty
'90 Nissan S13 Pignose - pass the mig wire
'86 Mini - matt orange, 13" Wellers, Project 2018
'97 LDV Convoy home built camper/tramper van
'04 Saab 9-5 Aero HOT. Anyone want it?
'91 Honda VFR400 NC30 17,000 km from new
'87 Honda XR80 4 stroke baby crosser
'03 Mini Cooper S - honestly, they are fun...
'15 VW T5.1 LWB daily brick
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broady
East Midlands
Posts: 406
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Subscribed!
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Dec 31, 2019 18:48:52 GMT
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welcome to the long way round I salute you brave soul, may your journey to the land of rust free speedy one.
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