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Jul 27, 2018 20:17:03 GMT
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I've always wondered what needs to be taken into consideration when you decide to do an engine conversion that has no kit available to buy for it to slot straight in.
I've done a couple of engine swaps in minis but they've just been bigger a series engines so fairly straightforward.
I have plenty of ideas of what I would like to do but where do you start?
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1967 Beetle
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Jul 27, 2018 20:19:46 GMT
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The main thing to be considered have you got the skill to fab up engine mounts, gearbox crossmember, adapt manifolds, modify the chassis/bulkhead etc
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Jul 29, 2018 19:41:26 GMT
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The main thing to be considered have you got the skill to fab up engine mounts, gearbox crossmember, adapt manifolds, modify the chassis/bulkhead etc I'm confident welding in new panels never tried to make up engine mounts and that
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1967 Beetle
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Jul 29, 2018 21:29:37 GMT
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With mine - 2002 MX-5 to 1970's VW 002 gearbox, the main issue was the shaft. Getting them made is very expensive and you can not cut n' shut two shafts due to hardening and heat distortion (splined both ends so can not be re-machined afterwards) - Luckily I found a rare one made for a specific model that was long enough. I made my own bell-housing to replace the 002 detachable one, from half the MX-5 box. But yes need to fab supports, brackets and mount plates.
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Badger
Part of things
Posts: 250
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Jul 30, 2018 21:27:19 GMT
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Here's a few considerations off the top of my head - I'm sure there's more!
1. Will the new lump fit? How much work is needed to make it fit? (Engine mounts, bonnet bulges, etc.)
2. Will the new lump marry up with the old transmission or does it need new?
3. Will the old fuel, ignition and sensor systems work with the new lump or do they need upgrading?
4. Is a new ECU needed?
5. Can the old cooling system handle the new engine, or does THAT need to be upgraded?
6. What other supporting mods are needed? (Brakes, suspension to compensate for more\less weight, etc.)
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glmogo
Part of things
Posts: 198
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With me it’s the wiring, ecu, dash clocks etc etc... scare me lots!
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A couple of things to add to the list, Exhaust will need altering, maybe a custom manifold. Adaptor to fit gearbox to engine if you arent using compatible units. Will the steering fit past the new engine without hitting anything. Are the brakes up to the new power output.
Quite a bit to think about, but I wouldnt let it put you off. Anything is possible. Putting the engine in the hole is the easy bit, getting it all to work is a little bit harder. If you have a swap in mind, see if anybody else has done it and try to find build threads to see what is involved. Even if the swap is only simillar it may show up some difficult areas. Most of all though is have a go. Plenty of capable people on here for advice if you get stuck. Good luck.
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As said above, has the swap been done before? If your doing the swap for practicality reasons rather than the engineering challenge, there is pointless trail blazing. It's always going to be easier to swap an engine and box together but if not does someone make a bellhousing conversion or an adaptor plate. Bespoke propshafts for rear wheel drive are cheap enough, drive shafts are more expensive.
The age of the donar engine will influence how much wiring will be required. 80's and 90's cars have very little ecu based wiring to connect up. The engine looms can usually be easily separated from the vehicle loom. When i put and RS2000 16v engine in my mk1Escort it only took about 5 wires to get it running newer engines may need signals from the brake and clutch pedals, speed sensors, the binnacle etc. All possible to bypass though and if you do your homework someone might sell a loom ready to go.
Anything is doable but how far do you want to go is the deciding factor
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Last Edit: Jul 31, 2018 9:02:12 GMT by jonsey
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Phil H
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,448
Club RR Member Number: 133
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Engine ConversionsPhil H
@philhoward
Club Retro Rides Member 133
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Fitting a FWD engine to a RWD car can be immense fun as FWD engines have equipment hanging over what would be the gearbox (coil packs, cooling connections, even sometimes alternators and pumps) which could prove troublesome if converting to RWD fitment. Flywheels and clutches can sometimes prove a headache getting parts that work together and (in some cases) actually cope with the torque. No point finding a clutch for a 1.6 Crossflow physically fits if you're trying to run with an engine with 150-200bhp!
If it's something from the 90's onwards, then not only does an ECU need to be considered, but also any anti-theft features - this may mean also transplanting instrument packs, keys, transponders and in some cases almost a complete car loom so the engine is "happy" in its new home. If ditching an EFi system for carbs, getting sparks to it might cause some headscratching, depending on what you've got. Otherwise, budget for an aftermarket ECU and setup (unless you're lucky and off the shelf kits are available, such as for Duratec etc).
EDIT: Beaten by jonsey!
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Last Edit: Jul 31, 2018 9:04:38 GMT by Phil H
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Thanks for the responses! I know I'm probably limited to what I can do realistically for now anyway. Engine electrics and other bits don't phase me it's more the fabrication side. Once I've finished my beetle I plan to get a long term project.
Would love to shove a Japanese turbo motor into a moggy or build some sort of hot rod.
But i see some builds and wonder what goes into things like suspension set ups that have had to be tweaked or steering modifcations is there some sort of science/maths to this?
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1967 Beetle
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Aug 16, 2018 18:28:42 GMT
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As with most projects in life, there are two approaches:
1-Jump in and figure it out as you go.
2-Measure, plan, cost and have the entire project done mentally before you start.
Oddly enough, both paths seem to have about the same rate of success.
To answer your original question since I have done a few swaps but not enough to forget the firs one.
Take as much of the drivetrain from your donor as possible. You don't want to be matting random gearboxes to random engines. The stuff in the bell-housing is the scary bit and even if you pull it off, the parts to do future repairs might be an issue.
Think of the gear ratios early in the project. Both the differential ratio and the gearbox ratios will combine to make or break the driving experience. Track cars and street cars have different needs in this area.
Embrace the fabrication aspect because it is inevitable that you will be making brackets and exhaust for the project.
Don't sweat the wiring, if you make it that far, you are smart enough to work through the wiring with the same dogged determination that got you that far.
The truth is that a first timer, one-off engine swap is hard to pull off. There is so much to learn and a natural resistance to re-doing $tuff that maybe should be redone, but you don't want to!
I encourage drivet-rain swaps to beginners because they are an accelerated course in developing mechanical skills.
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