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May 14, 2018 17:55:22 GMT
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First off, I have a Landrover series 2, and several years ago fitted a ssangyong 2.9 into it. As some will know, it’s a copy Mercedes om602, and up to recently it’s been brilliant. After a motorway trip (yes, brave, I know) it developed a rattle, which absolutely sounded like a hydraulic lifter starting to fail, once cooled, it shut up and didn’t return for weeks, when it did, it was only when it’s hot, and cold it’s fine. I have put up with it as it’s only after an hour of driving that it starts, and when it does it happens quite quickly, which are the classic lifter noise give away. So , this weekend I replaced all of the lifters with new and gave it an oil change, it’s quite clean in the top and no horrible deposits, expecting silence I fired it up and after the original clatter til the oil got up all was good......BUT.... 10 minutes of driving and it’s back, louder than ever!! I have an oil pressure gauge and I think the pressure is lower than usual, but that could be the warmer weather. When clattering at its worst it seen]ms to have a sort of misfire or uneven idle, not bad, just slight. Allow it to cool, and all is well again?? There seems to be oil at the top end, but when I remove the cap it doesn’t throw it out like it did. So question 1. Do the lifters rely on pressurised oil? I’m sure I read somewhere that these engines can have this rattle if the head gasket goes around the oil feed gallery and drains into the timing chain area next to it as the gasket is thin there, but I’ve searched and can’t find it. Question 2. If the gasket did allow this to happen, would the oil pressure drop? It could of course be a faulty lifter, or a piston ring broken? Any ideas thrown at me will be gratefully received.       |
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Last Edit: May 19, 2018 21:19:02 GMT by datsundrew
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May 15, 2018 13:49:53 GMT
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Could be a noisy / failing injector, especially given that it seems to misfire.
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Davey
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Resident Tyre Nerd.
Posts: 2,319
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May 15, 2018 15:39:11 GMT
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Could be a noisy / failing injector, especially given that it seems to misfire. My thoughts as well, can you do a leak off test? very easy to make your own kit. |
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Phil H
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May 15, 2018 15:49:51 GMT
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If it was injector/fuel related, wouldn't high load/overrun make it change/stop? If it happens irrespective of load, then that points to valvetrain as pretty much everything else has a varying load on it. If it was low oil pressure on a lifter then it should go away as soon as the pressure (revs) increase?
Saying that, I had a (somewhat) load-dependant tick on my OM605 that I thought was an injector, so rebuilt a spare set, put them in, and no difference - it could have equally been the delivery valves in the pump which would have been my next port of call though as it can give the same symptoms. Equally, air (leak) in the leak off pipes can (apparently) do strange things.
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ChasR
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May 16, 2018 14:41:34 GMT
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Has it ever been run on veggie oil/biodiesel; it can leave a buildup in the injectors.
Injectors can do all sorts of things and can rattle for a very long time with the engine seeming to run OK. My now sold OM603 300D used to have that very same rattle.
If it were me I'd put in some diesel purge and run the injection system off just that; Plenty of youtube videos show it. It may be enough to sort out the injectors.
To rule out the HG I'd comrpession thest the cylinders; as you say, the 2.9s are known for it.
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Davey
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May 16, 2018 15:22:15 GMT
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Has it ever been run on veggie oil/biodiesel; it can leave a buildup in the injectors. Injectors can do all sorts of things and can rattle for a very long time with the engine seeming to run OK. My now sold OM603 300D used to have that very same rattle. If it were me I'd put in some diesel purge and run the injection system off just that; Plenty of youtube videos show it. It may be enough to sort out the injectors. To rule out the HG I'd comrpession thest the cylinders; as you say, the 2.9s are known for it. I got something from eBay that was very very effective on my MG can't for the life of me remember what it was, it was in a grey bottle with a yellow label. Went from noisy smokey to perfect. |
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K11 Micra x3 - Mk3 astra - Seat Marbella - Mk6 Escort estate - B5 Passat - Alfa 156 estate - E36 compact
Mk2 MR2 T-bar - E46 328i - Skoda Superb - Fiat seicento - 6n2 Polo - 6n polo 1.6 - Mk1 GS300
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scimjim
Club Retro Rides Member
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May 18, 2018 18:34:05 GMT
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Is the timing chain tensioner oil pressure controlled on the 602?
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93fxdl
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May 19, 2018 16:13:39 GMT
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Couple of times have had what sounded like a tappet caused by a cracked exhaust manifold
Ttfn Glenn
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May 19, 2018 21:01:20 GMT
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Ok, so I can reveal exactly what is the issue......and scimjim, you are the closest (as usual)😀 With absolutely nothing going on today, I decided that rather then get bored I'd get on with the Land Rover head gasket fix. It turned out to be exactly what I thought, and just about to go in a big way. Odd symptoms that would not really indicate Head gasket problems, no transfer of oil and water, no overheating. Instead, noisy tappets, oil blowing out and an intermittent misfire when hot. So weirdly No1 cylinder was leaking into the oil way across the gasket, hence the misfire, low oil to the head ( rattly tappets) and causing crankcase pressure! Anyway, it's all cleaned up and I should have it going again tomorrow. I'm relieved as this has been like this for a year or so now, it's kept going somehow.            |
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May 19, 2018 21:17:05 GMT
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I'll add that I moved it from the road outside and onto the drive to do the work, and immediately took it apart, and although there was oil around the camshaft, it was not dripping in oil like I'd expect. Normally if you remove the oil cap it is dripping in oil, but it's not.
You can see in the pic that the gasses has expanded the steel strip on the gasket and pushed it into the oil gallery in the head. I think it was day's away from the oil draining into no 1 pot, so just caught it. I drove it on Monday as I had to move a load of plywood and plasterboard, but on the way home I decided not to drive it again as it all felt and sounded different.
It's all cleaned up and the head is back on to 10 Nm, so tomorrow should see it all back together.
To be honest I can't wait, as when I did the tappets last week I realised that that when the chain snapped a couple of years back (another story that's on here somewhere 😱) I had set the camshaft timing one tooth out!! It ran well, but was quieter and calmer, and I didn't really think about it. So for a week it was sort of back to its old self , with the obvious problems above of course.
Before the chain drama, it used to absolutely fly, with the only real limitation being the nerve of the driver, it really is too quick for a 58 year old Landy!
Thanks everyone for your input, I'll post once I've done a test run.
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May 20, 2018 20:50:29 GMT
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I got it all back together today, and had it all done by 2pm! Bled the injectors, and as soon as it fired up it sounded different......really smooth and little vibration, took it out for a run and it’s the best it’s ever been, so I suspect the cam was always one tooth out, as I’m sure the gasket hasn’t Been on its way out for 4 years? It sounds really sweet, and pulls really well like before, but much smoother.
I celebrated by taking the roof off and going for a good run. Very happy.
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ChasR
RR Helper
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May 21, 2018 22:46:36 GMT
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I remember a Kangoo 1.5 DCi snapping an aux belt due to the alternator seizing. The guy who did the work changed the belt and the alternator but commented on the belt being awful to remove. So he undid the crank pulley with no locking tools to remove the pulle and thus the belt. Forgive me if this sounds familiar.
When I drove it the next day I knew something was wrong. It was much louder, didn't pull that well and it sounded very tappety. This was from it running fine previously! I took it to the garage and he diagnosed it as engine knock.
In the end the owner of the car/business did the work himself. He was about to fit a new head on! He found out that the cams were two teeth out! Yup, the crank pulley I believe isn't on a keyway with the 1.5 DCI enigne. When the aux belt was changed the timing had shifted. The owner locked the engine using the correct tools, fitted a new timing belt and ran the car. It to this day has never ran so good! It was like another car even before the saga!
But it's something I've rarely seen happen. Clio 172s can suffer a similar fate from 'tippex' timing belt jobs if you are lucky.
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