moglite
Part of things
Posts: 815 
Club RR Member Number: 144
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Apr 19, 2018 18:47:56 GMT
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So I want to get my Morris Oxford down in the weeds with air-suspension. The rear suspension looks similar to this  I was originally going to ditch the leaves, and make a 4-link rear suspension. I still might, but that is quite a lot of work for a car that wil be driven gently, and have less the 75bhp. I think I've read in the past, people retain the leaf spring, but only the main leaf for axle location. Because it only has a fraction of the strength of a complete leaf spring, it should go low, and the vehicle weight can be supported by the air-spring. Anyone done this and is still alive  |
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Last Edit: Apr 19, 2018 18:48:24 GMT by moglite
1967 Morris Oxford Traveller
1979 Toyota LandCruiser BJ40
1993 Daimler Double Six
2007 Volvo XC70 2.4D
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Apr 19, 2018 18:52:59 GMT
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Not personally, but plenty have on the old yank cars. Single or 2 leaves and bags on top of axle works. You will possibly need a panhard bar as with a single leaf you lose a lot of its ability to horizontally locate the axle.
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,790
Club RR Member Number: 34
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Apr 19, 2018 20:18:21 GMT
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It's a sh1t idea.
People do it and some don't die, some break things badly and damage other things because of it.
Some find they have to do so many other things to stop it doing wierd stuff that you don't want it to do you may as well just do it properly in the first place.
Just do a 2 link with a triangulation bar if you don't want to go the full 4 link. It'll work well enough and won't handle any worse than standard leaf springs, but far better than ones with too many bits missing.
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moglite
Part of things
Posts: 815
Club RR Member Number: 144
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Thanks - I was trying to avoid too many changes to the shell of the car.
Sounds like I might as well just go full blown 4-link.
There are bolt on kits for MGBs and the like, so I can copy the style of those.
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1967 Morris Oxford Traveller
1979 Toyota LandCruiser BJ40
1993 Daimler Double Six
2007 Volvo XC70 2.4D
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Apr 24, 2018 11:29:46 GMT
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its common to add an air bag for extra spring rate on a commercial vehicle like a spec lift tow rig, and I have seen leaf packs minimised and a coilover damper used on escorts as a mid point between full blown 5 link coilover and the original leaf setup, so I can't see any reason for your plan to not work, you'll just need to ensure you have an appropriate damper.
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,790
Club RR Member Number: 34
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Apr 24, 2018 13:12:48 GMT
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Its nothing to do with dampers (although the self-damping of Spring Packs is something to consider).
A spring pack also acts as ALL your axle location-both lateral and londitudinal. its questionable if they offer enough lateral location as standard, lots of cars with full leaf packs also run an additional panhard to keep things in check. A spring pack stripped down to a single leaf definately doesn't have enough rigidity to locate the axle londitudinally. You'll get axle tramp even with very low power, especially once the spring is compressed past-flat. By the time you've added in various additional bars to keep the axle located as it should be you could have just done a basic 2-link that will work better and be stronger.
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andyborris
Posted a lot
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose.
Posts: 2,220
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Apr 27, 2018 17:36:23 GMT
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What's wrong with old fashioned blocks?
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What's wrong with old fashioned blocks? I have mine on 2 inch blocks and dearched springs, not sure how much they are de arched, an inch i'd guess. Assuming the original poster wants to have adjustability of airbags to have a low parked height and a higher driving height. |
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andyborris
Posted a lot
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose.
Posts: 2,220
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Apr 30, 2018 19:53:07 GMT
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Yeah, thought of that after I posted, I'll get me coat........
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single leaf could have some serious wrap issues ?
what about deleting the rear half of the entire leaf spring pack, effectively making semi trailing arm/ torsion beam setup? then add a panhard rod. ?
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Last Edit: May 1, 2018 19:32:36 GMT by darrenh
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Throw the leaf springs away, and fab up a trailing arm from the front spring eye mount down to the u bolts on the axle.
You would need a panard rod to stop side to side movement, or make a v link from the top of the axle.
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1988 Mercedes w124 superturbo diesel 508hp
1996 Mercedes s124 e300 diesel wagon
1990 BMW E30 V8 M60 powered!
1999 BMW E46 323ci project car
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moglite
Part of things
Posts: 815
Club RR Member Number: 144
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Throw the leaf springs away, and fab up a trailing arm from the front spring eye mount down to the u bolts on the axle. You would need a panard rod to stop side to side movement, or make a v link from the top of the axle. I think I'm going to avoid the panhard, and go V link/ 4-link The MGB is largely the same architecture as mine, and there is this 4-link kit which is well reguarded  I think I'll copy the link design of that, but with conventional dampers and airbags |
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1967 Morris Oxford Traveller
1979 Toyota LandCruiser BJ40
1993 Daimler Double Six
2007 Volvo XC70 2.4D
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cut spring pack at red line, delete everything inside the blue box (rear half of springs and shackles) then add airbag in green ?  |
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Last Edit: May 2, 2018 10:51:35 GMT by darrenh
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cut spring pack at red line, delete everything inside the blue box (rear half of springs and shackles) then add airbag in green ? You are effectively making a parallel 2 link rear suspension there, while maintaining the thinnest part of the rear spring pack (the main leaf) attached only at 1 end, maintaining extra mass under the axle (the remains of the leaf pack, which now serve no purpose as they aren't attached to anything) and without a panhard rod you have removed all possibility of the axle remaining centred as tho whole thing pivots on 2 small bolts at the front shackles. I'd avoid that like the plague personally, seems to take all of the worst parts of single leaf with bag and add the element of danger, and go for 4 link, triangulated or parallel, and a pan hard bar. |
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You are effectively making a parallel 2 link rear suspension there, while maintaining the thinnest part of the rear spring pack (the main leaf) attached only at 1 end, maintaining extra mass under the axle (the remains of the leaf pack, which now serve no purpose as they aren't attached to anything) the purpose they serve that it would stop the axle wrapping (compared to a single leaf) for the exact same reason multi leaves increase spring rate without a panhard rod you have removed all possibility of the axle remaining centred as tho whole thing pivots on 2 small bolts at the front shackles then add a panhard rod. ? my photoshop skills do not extend to panhard rods |
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Last Edit: May 2, 2018 19:50:44 GMT by darrenh
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thought i had seen it somewhere before. trialler land rover  |
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moglite
Part of things
Posts: 815
Club RR Member Number: 144
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thought i had seen it somewhere before. trialler land rover OMG - there is every style of suspension on one axle there ;-) |
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1967 Morris Oxford Traveller
1979 Toyota LandCruiser BJ40
1993 Daimler Double Six
2007 Volvo XC70 2.4D
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,790
Club RR Member Number: 34
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The more you look at that pic the worse it gets!
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,790
Club RR Member Number: 34
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This is more or less what a 2 link should look like. goo.gl/images/ARbeyZApart from the hokey panhard angle that is. It needs a drop bracket at the body end so it's level at ride height. It will usually also ride better with the bags mounted further forward, about 1/3 the way down the 2 link arms. With bag over axle bag pressure is very low (30-40psi) so it ends up very bouncy. Putting the bags further forward Introduces a lever so you need to run higher bag pressure to lift the same weight. The major thing with a 2 link is not to make it too stiff. If you google them you will notice everyone retains the U bolts rather than solid mounting them to the axle. This is very deliberate, it allows a little flex so things can move, rather than breaking stuff. Same reason the bars shouldn't be welded together side to side. It's ok to run a rose jointed diagonal link instead of a panhard though, and it's a much neater solution plus you get less side to side arc through the suspension travel. |
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Apart from the hokey panhard angle that is. and the U bolts clamping round box section training arms, and the bags mounted on corner brackets of a square frame, and the panhard rod just a drilled tube running directly on the bolt threads, in single sheer. your shonk is less worse than my shonk, i get it |
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Last Edit: May 3, 2018 11:15:04 GMT by darrenh
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